NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[MMQC]

Did he have his own place (or lived w/his parents) before joining the Navy?

Don't really recall.

 

[MMQC]

Had she wanted to go carry through with the pregnancy, and then changed course?

No that was the plan from the beginning.

 

[MMQC]

Maybe "having a breakdown" meant "on my case." Maybe she was guilting him or trying to persuade him to do something about it, and the last thing he needed was someone to fortify that in her.

Now this is MOO! I think mother KNEW what happened and was FREAKING out son would be arrested. AGAIN MOO!

 

[alliemay]

MMQC - on the night of the search, RE: Wagner College, did youor Eva suggest going onto Victory Blvd. behind Wagner College and pass by "Red"s house to see if anything looked suspicious?

 

[epiphany]

Most definitely 73. I do believe he lived on the hill behind Wagner on the Victory Blvd. side.

Had SL's Mother ever met Red? Or had she been aware they were once dating, or that SL had been interested in him at one time?

 

[Jmoose]

BBM1: And are you seeing this as a motive for murder? It's hard for me to see him going from not condoning abortion to killing it himself (ETA: via the murder of the baby's mother), but I guess if it were a heat of the moment thing ... I also question whether a second abortion would have been okay with her, given the first one.

BBM2: Respectfully intended -- I see where you are coming from -- but I am not sure this is realistic. PIs are paid by the hour. We know from MMQC that he was following her. Perhaps he spent their money where they wanted him to spend it? You would have to have unlimited funds to look everywhere. In addition to not knowing what he found (is it possible his reports were oral?), we don't know what they invested or what his marching orders were.

Not at all thinking that, if she was pregnant and it was his, that he'd murder or condone any violence-just looking as this as the reason she bolted from the car-sorry, I should have qualified my remark. And you are right about the PI-I forgot MMQC had said that. I bet that is all he did, and not for very long, either. I guess where I was going, was that I don't necessarily think the Lwowskis got their money's worth

 

[rosemadderlake]

Maybe "having a breakdown" meant "on my case." Maybe she was guilting him or trying to persuade him to do something about it, and the last thing he needed was someone to fortify that in her.

--Very possibly true. MMQC was the reminder that brought it all up and he blew his top with her on the phone...

At the very least it did not look good for the BF/F being the last one to see SL, even if he was not a POI, or had nothing to do with her disappearance. It looked really bad.

Maybe they did break up and SL threw the ring, left the glasses, and his mother was distraught because he was not telling anyone but family that piece, or was advised not to?

So the stone cold silence was a way to keep the heat off the "wounded" BF/F, and portray SL as a run away...

I wonder what the rumor was about that night among her Wagner friends and SI community.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

So this is a bit OT, but goes to our anguish over LE's reaction to EL's concerns about SL.

I've been going over my grandfather's papers. My father used the FOI Act to get the VA case file that was created when my grandmother applied for a benefit due my grandfather, who disappeared in 1929 (he was a WWI veteran). He'd been missing more than 7 years by then, and the VA needed to determine if his disappearance was "unexplained" in order to declare him dead. Among the depositions is one from my grandmother, answering a Q about whether she went to police. She had gone, the day after he disappeared (other attested to this), but LE wouldn't take her seriously unless she wanted to offer a "reward." When for some other purpose, two years after the disappearance, she attempted to get the report from the 42 Precinct (the Bronx), she found they never even wrote it up! She then went to another bureau devoted to Missing Persons and filed something formal. But the only thing they ever did was have her look at photos of current un-ID'd bodies and those they had already buried in Potter's Field.

It seems that culture was barely improved all those years later, when SL disappeared.

 

[Jmoose]

So this is a bit OT, but goes to our anguish over LE's reaction to EL's concerns about SL.

I've been going over my grandfather's papers. My father used the FOI Act to get the VA case file that was created when my grandmother applied for a benefit due my grandfather, who disappeared in 1929 (he was a WWI veteran). He'd been missing more than 7 years by then, and the VA needed to determine if his disappearance was "unexplained" in order to declare him dead. Among the depositions is one from my grandmother, answering a Q about whether she went to police. She had gone, the day after he disappeared (other attested to this), but LE wouldn't take her seriously unless she wanted to offer a "reward." When for some other purpose, two years after the disappearance, she attempted to get the report from the 42 Precinct (the Bronx), she found they never even wrote it up! She then went to another bureau devoted to Missing Persons and filed something formal. But the only thing they ever did was have her look at photos of current un-ID'd bodies and those they had already buried in Potter's Field.

It seems that culture was barely improved all those years later, when SL disappeared.

That is unbelievable! Your poor Grandmother! Why did they let her think that she was making a report when they intended to do nothing of the kind? At least the 122 precinct produced a police report on Sylvia, whether or not they investigated intensely.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think MMQC stated that SL's BF/F was not at the pool party with the Wagner group and MMQC.

Wondering whether there was any male in attendance (in hindsight) that showed an interest in SL or vice versa.

-I am stuck on the pool party - so the BF/F was not there and we don't know why.

bbm: To add to Epiphany's thought: Could the BF/F have been jealous of someone who was invited? Refused to go if so and so was there? SL may have gone ahead and had a great time without the BF/F. Jealousy, and even more so misplaced jealousy is quite overbearing (imo). Was this the precursor event to the argument event?

I wonder if the cold case squad has the names of everyone who was at the pool party?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

That is unbelievable! Your poor Grandmother! Why did they let her think that she was making a report when they intended to do nothing of the kind? At least the 122 precinct produced a police report on Sylvia, whether or not they investigated intensely.

Aw, thanks Yeah, it broke my heart reading about it. She had FOUR kids. In one report, asking about the money, she said about them: "it's getting harder not easier." I raised one daughter as a single mother. If I had had four, there would be nothing of me left standing. IMO, she rocked it.

 

[rosemadderlake]

So this is a bit OT, but goes to our anguish over LE's reaction to EL's concerns about SL.

I've been going over my grandfather's papers. My father used the FOI Act to get the VA case file that was created when my grandmother applied for a benefit due my grandfather, who disappeared in 1929 (he was a WWI veteran). He'd been missing more than 7 years by then, and the VA needed to determine if his disappearance was "unexplained" in order to declare him dead. Among the depositions is one from my grandmother, answering a Q about whether she went to police. She had gone, the day after he disappeared (other attested to this), but LE wouldn't take her seriously unless she wanted to offer a "reward." When for some other purpose, two years after the disappearance, she attempted to get the report from the 42 Precinct (the Bronx), she found they never even wrote it up! She then went to another bureau devoted to Missing Persons and filed something formal. But the only thing they ever did was have her look at photos of current un-ID'd bodies and those they had already buried in Potter's Field.

It seems that culture was barely improved all those years later, when SL disappeared.

bbm: oh lord, I hope she had someone with her to prop her up while looking through the photos?

You raise a very interesting point about how LE may work, though. How are they to distinguish from someone who leaves willingly, and someone who is missing? Maybe the reward is that demarcation, even if it is small, that gives them a channel.

But in 1929, a small reward may not have been possible and therefore it is deplorable that they did not record your grandmother's filing of her husband's disappearance! --She must have felt so abandoned.

-Makes me wonder if the police report in 1975 would have been handled differently if SL's father filed it?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm: oh lord, I hope she had someone with her to prop her up while looking through the photos?

You raise a very interesting point about how LE may work, though. How are they to distinguish from someone who leaves willingly, and someone who is missing? Maybe the reward is that demarcation, even if it is small, that gives them a channel.

But in 1929, a small reward may not have been possible and therefore it is deplorable that they did not record your grandmother's filing of her husband's disappearance! --She must have felt so abandoned.

-Makes me wonder if the police report in 1975 would have been handled differently if SL's father filed it?

BBM3: Wow. What a great point, Rose. I wonder ...

BBM1: Maybe. It's as good a guess as any. My grandmother and her peers thought it was a thinly disguised request for a bribe.

BBM2: Exactly, middle of the Great Depression, a mother on welfare trying to stay afloat, get a job.

You are right: They don't have a crystal ball and can't always judge from surface details which cases merit investigation. But in both cases -- SL's and my grandfather's — a crucial window of opportunity was missed.

 

[Jmoose]

BBM3: Wow. What a great point, Rose. I wonder ...

BBM1: Maybe. It's as good a guess as any. My grandmother and her peers thought it was a thinly disguised request for a bribe.

BBM2: Exactly, middle of the Great Depression, a mother on welfare trying to stay afloat, get a job.

You are right: They don't have a crystal ball and can't always judge from surface details which cases merit investigation. But in both cases -- SL's and my grandfather's — a crucial window of opportunity was missed.

BBM-I am actually so naive, that it did not ocur to me the police were requesting a bribe to make the report! I thought that they figured it was a waste of time unless there was a reward (for some non-police person)! But of course they wanted a bribe-I feel so silly...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM-I am actually so naive, that it did not ocur to me the police were requesting a bribe to make the report! I thought that they figured it was a waste of time unless there was a reward (for some non-police person)! But of course they wanted a bribe-I feel so silly...

LOL. Personally, I prefer people who don't think the worst of everyone right away.
My grandmother was pretty savvy, so I too suspect she was right. She went back many times with different people (including men, but no one "powerful") and got the same shakedown. It wasn't a good time to be a member of the lowly hoard.

 

[Jmoose]

LOL. Personally, I prefer people who don't think the worst of everyone right away.
My grandmother was pretty savvy, so I too suspect she was right. She went back many times with different people (including men, but no one "powerful") and got the same shakedown. It wasn't a good time to be a member of the lowly hoard.

I really hope that this isn't what happened to the Lwowski family-maybe a bribe wasn't requested, but in the 70's, when there was so much crime, and the city was essentially bankrupt, perhaps what would have meant business to the police, was to have had somebody with some influence leaning on them continually. MMQC's neighbor had to request that they start investigating, after all. I wonder if more would have been done if the ADA had kept up the pressure.

 

[epiphany]

I really hope that this isn't what happened to the Lwowski family-maybe a bribe wasn't requested, but in the 70's, when there was so much crime, and the city was essentially bankrupt, perhaps what would have meant business to the police, was to have had somebody with some influence leaning on them continually. MMQC's neighbor had to request that they start investigating, after all. I wonder if more would have been done if the ADA had kept up the pressure.

OTOH, MMQC's neighbor ADA may have been the very reason MMQC was left out of it (not spoken to by NYPD), so to speak. May have been requested by her extremely strict parents.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I really hope that this isn't what happened to the Lwowski family-maybe a bribe wasn't requested, but in the 70's, when there was so much crime, and the city was essentially bankrupt, perhaps what would have meant business to the police, was to have had somebody with some influence leaning on them continually. MMQC's neighbor had to request that they start investigating, after all. I wonder if more would have been done if the ADA had kept up the pressure.

OTOH, MMQC's neighbor ADA may have been the very reason MMQC was left out of it (not spoken to by NYPD), so to speak. May have been requested by her extremely strict parents.

I hope not, JMoose, but you make a good point. You too, Epiph.

Really both are forms of corruption -- and both could have impaired the investigation, right? A legitimate investigation can't leave out key witnesses just to please a constituent, any more than a bribe should be necessary to conduct it.

 

[gajonka]

BBM-I am actually so naive, that it did not ocur to me the police were requesting a bribe to make the report! I thought that they figured it was a waste of time unless there was a reward (for some non-police person)! But of course they wanted a bribe-I feel so silly...

>>>>

Breaking Developments.

Sylvia's Case will be profiled on the radio show Sunday, June 16, 2013. AT THE TOP OF THE 8:00 pm EST hour!!! At the top! This is great!



Special guests, too!!


Your admirer,

The Gajonka

 

[MMQC]

Did you and your Dad look for SL that evening while in one/same car?

Yes, he drove and I looked.