NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[epiphany]

Don't believe this WC/Band group in attendance at the pool party was necessarily as separate from BF/F as I had previously thought/assumed. Think BF/F may have been fluid with some in this group at pool party.

 

[rosemadderlake]

1st post BBY and 2nd post BBM:
This last post got me thinking about your compartmentalization theory, Epiphany. If SL met her BF/F through a friend in the band at Wagner, that may mean SL's Wagner crowd and the BF/F's crowd mixed. BF/F lived near Wagner -- Port Richmond Center. Some of the Wagner bandies could have been his HS friends, old HS bandie-buddies (HS marching band), and bandies who he had a recreational band with. Just speculating.

At first I thought this could explain why we aren't hearing from the Wagner crowd ... maybe they were more his friends than hers? But if so, I would have expected him to be at the pool party, right? I can't imagine why he wouldn't be there. I would think SL would have scheduled it around any real commitment he had ....

bbm1: This would explain some 'radio silence' on these four years, maybe? imo... Wonder if the PI ever got a list of names from Wagner, Band, & Sorority? And, does LE/Cold Case Squad have the list of names?

bbm2: Right, exactly GBMG - Why wasn't the BF/F at the pool party? .. --Something that was planned for; invites, food & refreshment, music? -For 15-20 mixed Wagner group of friends, IIRC MMQC estimating.

MMQC - Wondering if the incident between SL & her father kind of cleared out the crowd? Or, did everyone just party on (as they say!)?

 

[Jmoose]

Also, wonder whether MMQC's (BF/F) husband, either knew SL's BF/F or knew of him prior to SL's beginning to date him: from the neighborhood, from elementary school, from other friends?

If the boyfriend to whom she was referring, was the man she ended up marrying (I think it was), then she did say that they had met-and did not like each other. BF/F looked down on MMQC's boyfriend because he didn't go to college.

 

[Jmoose]

BBM: That's what I've been thinking too, but I don't remember it being stated anywhere. Do you? I just reread the engagement announcement, after my last post, and noticed SL is referred to as a "senior biology major" (BBM) while the BF/F is referred to only as a "music education major." I wonder why the writer didn't treat them even-handedly and give the grade-level for both. Could the BF/F actually have been younger than SL? Or perhaps was he working as a private music instructor to put himself through school and so didn't start at the same time SL did (or was going part-time)?

MMQC, do you have any idea how old SL's BF/F was in relation to SL -- older? younger? Had he also graduated from college in May?

Hmm-why did I think that he was older? I am going to have to go back and check out where that thought came from.

 

[MMQC]

BBM: So then, since you only knew him through SL, and just caught that one glimpse of him in the parking lot the day you left her at PP, you must have seen him around the island in the years that followed, in order to guess where in general he might live?

NO, SL told me one day as we were going some place. She said he lived near where we were, and that was all.

 

[MMQC]

MMQC, I can't remember if this has been asked before, so if I'm on repeat, I apologize. Do you have any idea how long they "dated" before the abortion? I have been thinking of this relationship as something along the lines of a one night stand, since I think you said earlier that the later BF/F was SL's first serious relationship ("She did have a few BF's but none serious.") And because of your comments about sexual exploration in connection with this relationship ("Not to forget. It was a time for sexual exploration.") IOW, I wasn't seeing him as the kind of boy you bring home to mother

So in addition to wondering how long they dated, I'm curious about what they did together and how SL's mom came to know of him. Did EL meet "Red" when he picked SL up for these dates? What was it about the relationship that made you think of it as "not serious"? And do you think was it the abortion that separated them?

It was a few months they dated if I recall. EL met every one SL dated. We both had parents that insisted that the boy come to the door to pick us up.

 

[MMQC]

bbm: MMQC: your post really speaks to the heart wrenching aspect of this choice. A couple of thoughts, I wonder if Red felt the same? Perhaps she liked him but he had enlisted in the services when she got pregnant and it was a timing issue (child out of wedlock before finishing school issue) because he was going away? This young man was there with her during the procedure which says a lot to me about their feelings, and his taking responsibility in a very intimate loss.

-SL found a serious relationship with a traditional path, ring, engagement, in the BF/F soon after Red in the spring/summer of '73. -I wonder if she and her BF/F were on the same page about timing of marriage and children which she obviously wanted someday.

-From your description, this was very much on the surface of her emotions in the summer of '75. If she felt she couldn't tell her BF/F about her feelings, her loss, desires, and the BF/F was hesitant, career minded, or whatever, I wonder if SL or the BF/F were having second thoughts...

No date was set for the wedding, no church, no plan to live together for a while (test out the waters) as many young people were doing. So, what were their plans, I wonder? -Was she going to stay at home?

It's a mystery to me!

 

[MMQC]

MMQC, besides yourself, were any other old friends from elementary or middle school at the August pool party? How about SL's friends from her neighborhood -- was she still close with anyone from Tottenville HS?

No, No, and not to my knowledge.

 

[MMQC]

Maybe he didn't go because she had invited someone he didn't care for, male or female, OR maybe "red" had shown up prior to the start of the party (as someone suggested) and somehow he found out about it? Just guessing.

No, I'd have remembered that! He might have had a prior committment with his band or the orchestra?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

NO, SL told me one day as we were going some place. She said he lived near where we were, and that was all.

MMQC, would kids who lived in the general area Red lived in during high school go to Port Richmond HS? Or somewhere else?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM: That's what I've been thinking too, but I don't remember it being stated anywhere. Do you? I just reread the engagement announcement, after my last post, and noticed SL is referred to as a "senior biology major" (BBM) while the BF/F is referred to only as a "music education major." I wonder why the writer didn't treat them even-handedly and give the grade-level for both. Could the BF/F actually have been younger than SL? Or perhaps was he working as a private music instructor to put himself through school and so didn't start at the same time SL did (or was going part-time)?

MMQC, do you have any idea how old SL's BF/F was in relation to SL -- older? younger? Had he also graduated from college in May?

MMQC, bumping up the Q in bold for you.

 

[MMQC]

BBM: That's what I've been thinking too, but I don't remember it being stated anywhere. Do you? I just reread the engagement announcement, after my last post, and noticed SL is referred to as a "senior biology major" (BBM) while the BF/F is referred to only as a "music education major." I wonder why the writer didn't treat them even-handedly and give the grade-level for both. Could the BF/F actually have been younger than SL? Or perhaps was he working as a private music instructor to put himself through school and so didn't start at the same time SL did (or was going part-time)?

MMQC, do you have any idea how old SL's BF/F was in relation to SL -- older? younger? Had he also graduated from college in May?

He was older.

 

[MMQC]

MMQC, would kids who lived in the general area Red lived in during high school go to Port Richmond HS? Or somewhere else?

Port Richmond or Mckee depending on the exact location and the course of study they followed. McKee was a teck school. OR a private school. There were several on the island.

 

[rosemadderlake]

No, I'd have remembered that! He might have had a prior committment with his band or the orchestra?

bbm: MMQC -the BF/F's band has been mentioned a couple of times on this thread - I am gathering this is not a chamber quartet but a rock and roll band? --like in blues band? Or Led Zep kind of R&R band? -Dance band?

Did his band play at bars, clubs, venues on SI, NYC?

 

[alliemay]

No, I'd have remembered that! He might have had a prior committment with his band or the orchestra?

MMQC - What was the name of his band?
Should have read Rose's post above....so I guess this adds to her question.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

He was older.

Thank you. Do you know by how much? Or what year he graduated from Port Richmond HS?

 

[Dushi]

I have a question on my mind.....

The night that Sylvia disappeared, BF/F stopped by MMQCs and asked her to pick Sylvia up at the bus stop.
Then according to AWSDH, BF/F came by Sylvias house and spoke to Mrs.L.

Later that evening, MMQC called Mrs L and asked her to have Sylvia call the moment she got home, regardless of the time.

By this time, Mrs L must have spoken to the BF/F???

When MMQC called why did Mrs L not mention the BF/Fs visit?
MMQC did not know he had been to Sylvias house that night until she joined WS
Wouldn't Mrs L have said that he was there and said MMQC was picking her up?
What time did BF/F show up at Sylvias door



( JMoose brought this up and I can not get it off of my mind)


And even if he arrived later in the evening, why didn't Mrs L call MMQC back to see if Sylvia was there by then?

I know..... I am confusing myself too

 

[Jmoose]

I have a question on my mind.....

The night that Sylvia disappeared, BF/F stopped by MMQCs and asked her to pick Sylvia up at the bus stop.
Then according to AWSDH, BF/F came by Sylvias house and spoke to Mrs.L.

Later that evening, MMQC called Mrs L and asked her to have Sylvia call the moment she got home, regardless of the time.

By this time, Mrs L must have spoken to the BF/F???

When MMQC called why did Mrs L not mention the BF/Fs visit?
MMQC did not know he had been to Sylvias house that night until she joined WS
Wouldn't Mrs L have said that he was there and said MMQC was picking her up?
What time did BF/F show up at Sylvias door



( JMoose brought this up and I can not get it off of my mind)


And even if he arrived later in the evening, why didn't Mrs L call MMQC back to see if Sylvia was there by then?

I know..... I am confusing myself too

ASWDH would have to be the one to answer this definitively-if BF/F was seen at the Lwowski house, then it's certain. If he was, I wonder why it was never mentioned to MMQC on that night, or at any subsequent time? I don't think it is inconsequential, but can't figure out why it bugs me?

 

[Jmoose]

I am sort of regurgitating this as I think of it-we know that nobody told MMQC that BF/F came to the Lwowski house after visiting her. And we don't know if BF/F told the Lwowskis that he had gone to MMQC's first. Possibly he did not, because there wasn't any indication, as expressed by Mrs Lwowski, that she was aware of that-MMQC called their house looking for Sylvia after the time that BF/F would have been and gone, and Mrs L said nothing when MMQC called. Why is this bothering me?

 

[epiphany]

My understanding from MMQC's posts is that Eva had never told her about the following, nor did MMQC know about the following, until she learned about it after joining WS:

- that SL's BF/F had been to SL's home that evening at 10:30 PM

- that Eva, SL's Mother, had gone out to look for SL the very evening her daughter went missing

- that Eva had called the police that very evening after looking for her daughter

- that SL threw her eyeglasses or even that there was an eyeglass story