NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[GoingByMyGut]

Here's my exchange with MMQC. You're not going to believe this, but she says it IS the girl in the middle of the bottom tier. Not gloating here, honestly -- I felt very visually challenged looking at the photo The flute argument was sound, but Mary explains why she's holding that.

GBMG: Hi, M --Hope your Thanksgiving was nice -- I'm in a post-turkey stupor myself When you get a chance, can you go to this 1973 Wagner school newspaper link, scroll down to the bottom of page 7, and tell me if you see Syliva in the band photo? Is she the one on the far right of the semi-circle of girls on the floor (not on one of the risers)? With her left shoulder facing us? Rose and Skeet picked her out but it's really hard to tell bc it's such a bad quality pic -- it makes it look like everyone has dark hair!

MMQC: Got it this time. Thanks. Sylvia is in the bottom row 4 from the left.

GBMG: By bottom row, do you mean the bottom semi-circle, from the band members' point of view? Would she be the one looking straight at us then?

MMQC: OH YES

GBMG: LOL. I'm just trying to be exact here, because that's who I thought was her -- she's kind of in the dead center of the picture? Not turned sideways, looking at us sideways, but the one facing us straight on? Rose and Skeet didn't think that could be her because she appears to be holding a flute rather than a piccolo.

MMQC: She played both piccolo and flute. It all depended on what the music required.

 

[alliemay]

Thanks Rose for finding the pic and GBMG for sending the e-mail and getting it confirmed. I wonder if they would put that picture on the NamUs site?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Thanks Rose for finding the pic and GBMG for sending the e-mail and getting it confirmed. I wonder if they would put that picture on the NamUs site?

Good thought - it may refresh someone's memory from school days, through a major search engine, via NamUs.

 

[MMQC]

Hi all,

I've been out of touch for a while just catching up on some older posts. Been in a funk and now with the all the holidays upon us I'm trying to crawl up and out just to be human again.
Also had computer issues.

 

[MMQC]

It still baffles me there are no dental records for her. I saw a mention of a Dr. Firestone (S.I. memory site), that was located in area of Korvettes store. I think I also posted the name of another dentist, from an obit I saw, when MMQC was joining us then, I can't remember his name now, but I asked her if she knew if this was Sylvia dentist at the time. I didn't get a reply.

Oh.. and the homeless shelter was located across from Majors Store.

Thanks for catching that GBMG, guess I thought I put in 1975.

Can't be quite sure but thinking back she did go to the VA when ever she had to go to the Dr. not sure about the dentist.

 

[alliemay]

Thanks for replying and welcome back.....I wonder what dentist her brother had? It's possible it would be the same dentist she went to.

 

[Jmoose]

Welcome back, MMQC!

 

[rosemadderlake]

Well, the weekend was flurry-full of information!!! -Good call to confirm Sylvia in band photo GBMG. Thanks MMQC for verifying Sylvia in the photo. She looks so sweet and knowing it is her is touching.

The Wagner archives fills out what MMQC has posted and brings Sylvia and her interests to life in her college days. I think there are a couple of ways to approach Wagner but the truth may be no one knows what happened to her. And yet, there may be those who don’t know she ever went missing. Raising awareness to her disappearance that can be posted along with pictures, to her ’75 class website may spur some memories and connections. –Hopefully.

- I am not sure if NamUs will publish a photo of her with other members of the band who are not missing. That could be problematic but there’s no harm in asking.

What I do think we have is some information to begin to assemble a timeline of her at school. Somewhere in the archives, there may be a list of sorority names including individuals who may have seen her at the pool party or afterwards, right before she disappeared. Skeet, the archives are not only a total find but they give me a sense of urgency in that no one is a spring chicken anymore, and it is really questionable as to whether her professors are even alive anymore. So, there is the determination to find Sylvia, now 38 years later, but perhaps there is also time for some to remember her too.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Can't be quite sure but thinking back she did go to the VA when ever she had to go to the Dr. not sure about the dentist.

Hopefully her brother can verify whether charting is available. On the NamUs website it says: "Dental information / charting is currently not available." I am encouraged by "currently" which could mean available, but maybe not submitted yet?

MMQC, do you remember if she ever wore braces in high school?

 

[MMQC]

Hopefully her brother can verify whether charting is available. On the NamUs website it says: "Dental information / charting is currently not available." I am encouraged by "currently" which could mean available, but maybe not submitted yet?

MMQC, do you remember if she ever wore braces in high school?

LOL, surely you jest? Sylvia had PERFECT TEETH! I always was jelous of her smile. She could melt a mans heart with that smile, and I'm sure she did. I had tetracycline as a small child which left my adult teeth with a discoloration. Always was and still is a concern for me. I'll look on the bright side of that now and say maybe by the time I'm 65 I'll have dentures. Then my brightsmile will be courtesy of efferdent. LOL

 

[rosemadderlake]

LOL, surely you jest? Sylvia had PERFECT TEETH! I always was jelous of her smile. She could melt a mans heart with that smile, and I'm sure she did. I had tetracycline as a small child which left my adult teeth with a discoloration. Always was and still is a concern for me. I'll look on the bright side of that now and say maybe by the time I'm 65 I'll have dentures. Then my brightsmile will be courtesy of efferdent. LOL

Ok, I take that as no braces on Sylvia - and she had perfectly straight teeth, in addition to perfect teeth... reason I ask is they can tell these things (like imprint of braces) in dental forensics.

Bbm: Lol! -90% of us will be powered by Efferdent in our senior years I am told... Ah! So much to look forward to and right around the corner at the same time...

 

[rosemadderlake]

Helen Surgan 1954-1974. Wagner student was stabbed and killed on campus by deranged Wagner employee in front of witnesses. She dated him a couple of times and when he asked her out again she told him she wasn’t interested, and he killed her in a rage...

Wagnerian 11.15.74, Pg. 1
https://wagnerian.omeka.net/items/show/2536

Wagnerian 4.18.05 Pg.4 (remembrance story)
https://wagnerian.omeka.net/items/show/2892


This horrific murder on campus in 1974 must have affected everyone profoundly. It must have been a fearful place for a while, especially for young women. It also illustrates how vulnerable and blind someone can be. (imo)

The 2005 remembrance story gives the details and circumstances. -Reverend Lyle Guttu, campus Chaplain in 1974, was one of the first arrivals on the scene. Still Chaplain at Wagner in 2007, very sadly he was struck and killed by a car in December 2007.
http://www.trftimes.com/news/?option=com_content&task=view&id=5144&Itemid=43

 

[alliemay]

Very interesting Rose, I was surprised to see he wasn't convicted and was allowed weekend passes.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Spoke to Kim Law at NamUs and sent her the information on Sylvia and the UID in question. She is looking into the possible match. Kim said dental matches or rule outs can often be determined quickly in part because NamUs has an in-house person who works on dental matches. DNA can take a long time because if DNA is insufficient, they wait for advances in testing and will retest when that becomes available.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Ok, well that was fast - The UID is ruled out.

"the description of 'perfect teeth' would rule this UP out, the dental work is extensive. There is no DNA available for the UP". Kim

 

[alliemay]

Some how there still has to be a way to get dental records on Sylvia, AND medical records from the VA.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Some how there still has to be a way to get dental records on Sylvia, AND medical records from the VA.

Even though it is good to have confirmation on this particular UID because of sketch and other “in range” factors, I think we can safely make assumptions in the future, based on the description of perfect teeth and her supporting beautiful smile in photo. Knowing she didn’t wear braces is a helpful piece, too. That is my take away from Kim.

Sylvia is described in good physical health on the PR, and we know if a UID is found with good teeth and/or having been pregnant this would be something to check out further. And, UID’s found without the obvious identification factors would go to DNA.

I would be surprised if Sylvia’s records were not available. I think Eva knew the importance of having them for ID purposes if her daughter was found. NamUs doesn’t always make these records available to the public either, ie: dental charting entered but no chart to view. Maybe this is so at the request of Sylvia’s family, too. -Who knows?

To your point, Skeet, I totally agree that the more details and descriptions, of brands of clothes, shoes, purse, jewelry, watch, etc., will definitely help those searching for matches.

I am just not sure it is up to us to try to get her medical records (which would not be released to a sleuthing forum) when her family can request them at any time.

 

[alliemay]

Sylvia had PERFECT TEETH! I always was jelous of her smile. She could melt a mans heart with that smile, and I'm sure she did.

"She could melt a man's heart with her smile, and I'm sure she did. MMQC - Did Sylvia ever express any concerns regarding men or boys that might have been interested in her at that time.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Wagnerian 10.31.72 Pg. 1, Wagner Girls molested on campus; pg. 4 Editorial on same...
https://wagnerian.omeka.net/items/show/2484

What I am noticing is things seem to happen in the fall. There was something in '73 as well - will post when I find...

 

[alliemay]

This paper is gold mine, another nice find Rose. Reading how others just "stood by" and did nothing makes me think that even if something was seen where Sylvia was concerned no one would talk...and then it hit me.

Why would Eva and MMQC go searching for Sylvia at Wagner when she had already graduated. What reason would there be for them to look for her in the main hall of the campus, when she was already done with school? Unless, Eva had reason to think that Sylvia would go there to meet one of her friends that was still attending Wagner.