NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[rosemadderlake]

Wagnerian 10.3.73, Pgs. 1 & 2, Assault in HVH (Harbor View Hall)

Wagnerian 10.3.73, Pg. 7, Article and picture on Wagner Marching Band.

https://wagnerian.omeka.net/items/show/2507

 

[Jmoose]

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[GoingByMyGut]

Original post TBM:

...and then it hit me.

Why would Eva and MMQC go searching for Sylvia at Wagner when she had already graduated. What reason would there be for them to look for her in the main hall of the campus, when she was already done with school? Unless, Eva had reason to think that Sylvia would go there to meet one of her friends that was still attending Wagner.

Skeet, this was my take as well from the earlier threads/posts in which it was discussed. I had asked a similar question about the August "graduation" pool party -- because I assumed most graduates would have dispersed to home states by June.

Two points I think support the BBM: (1) Marching band, other choruses/orchestras, and sororities typically create multi-grade friendships, and (2) Wagner had a high percentage of students from SI, which allowed those bonds to continue, even post graduation (for the same reason, some of those friendships may even predate college). These things HAD to be true for anyone from Wagner to attend the pool party, and I believe we know from MMQC that Wagner students (current or grads) attended the party -- which suggests the friendships were still fresh enough to pursue as part of the search?

Anyway, that's how I have it framed in my mind. It's a unique set of circumstances, for sure.

 

[rosemadderlake]

This paper is gold mine, another nice find Rose. Reading how others just "stood by" and did nothing makes me think that even if something was seen where Sylvia was concerned no one would talk...and then it hit me.

Why would Eva and MMQC go searching for Sylvia at Wagner when she had already graduated. What reason would there be for them to look for her in the main hall of the campus, when she was already done with school? Unless, Eva had reason to think that Sylvia would go there to meet one of her friends that was still attending Wagner.

Original post TBM:


Skeet, this was my take as well from the earlier threads/posts in which it was discussed. I had asked a similar question about the August "graduation" pool party -- because I assumed most graduates would have dispersed to home states by June.

Two points I think support the BBM: (1) Marching band, other choruses/orchestras, and sororities typically create multi-grade friendships, and (2) Wagner had a high percentage of students from SI, which allowed those bonds to continue, even post graduation (for the same reason, some of those friendships may even predate college). These things HAD to be true for anyone from Wagner to attend the pool party, and I believe we know from MMQC that Wagner students (current or grads) attended the party -- which suggests the friendships were still fresh enough to pursue as part of the search?

Anyway, that's how I have it framed in my mind. It's a unique set of circumstances, for sure.

bbms: -Wonder if Eva had a specific person or two in mind... Maybe she hadn't met some of these friends until the pool party and she could now put faces and names together in her search at Wagner...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbms: -Wonder if Eva had a specific person or two in mind... Maybe she hadn't met some of these friends until the pool party and she could now put faces and names together in her search at Wagner...

BBM: Maybe. My sense from MMQC's posts is that she was the one leading the search, showing EL where SL went, including places on the campus (I recall her saying they got a cool reception on the sorority floor). But there's so much we don't know about EL's POV -- so much even MMQC did not know about EL's POV -- that anything is possible.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM: Maybe. My sense from MMQC's posts is that she was the one leading the search, showing EL where SL went, including places on the campus (I recall her saying they got a cool reception on the sorority floor). But there's so much we don't know about EL's POV -- so much even MMQC did not know about EL's POV -- that anything is possible.

bbms: Yes, like possibly Eva returned again to Wagner, too.. as it became apparent that her daughter was really missing.

ETA - In reading the Wagnerian I thought of the Chaplain as someone that Eva may have contacted in her search for Sylvia...

 

[alliemay]

BBM: Maybe. My sense from MMQC's posts is that she was the one leading the search, showing EL where SL went, including places on the campus (I recall her saying they got a cool reception on the sorority floor). But there's so much we don't know about EL's POV -- so much even MMQC did not know about EL's POV -- that anything is possible.

I also felt that it was MMQC that was probably suggesting to Eva where Sylvia might be. I wonder if we could get that verified by MMQC. I would like to know what suggestions Eva came up with on her own.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I also felt that it was MMQC that was probably suggesting to Eva where Sylvia might be. I wonder if we could get that verified by MMQC. I would like to know what suggestions Eva came up with on her own.

Thread 1, Post 901, March 31, by MMQC: “I took her to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.”

BBM: We do know that EL went to LE on her own, hired a PI on her own, and persisted in questioning MMQC over the years. I wonder if she was less comfortable dealing with young adults she didn't know as well as MMQC? The gap could be wide in those days, esp. depending on your different backgrounds and values. The reception they got at the sorority floor could have confirmed the futility of this for her. Who knows, the graduation party could have tainted this for her too. All pure speculation on my part. Unless ASWDH uncovers -- and shares -- any records she kept, I think it's unlikely we'll ever know. JMO

ETA: I suspect we'll be moving on to thread 4 soon ...

 

[Dushi]

Original post TBM:


Skeet, this was my take as well from the earlier threads/posts in which it was discussed. I had asked a similar question about the August "graduation" pool party -- because I assumed most graduates would have dispersed to home states by June.

Two points I think support the BBM: (1) Marching band, other choruses/orchestras, and sororities typically create multi-grade friendships, and (2) Wagner had a high percentage of students from SI, which allowed those bonds to continue, even post graduation (for the same reason, some of those friendships may even predate college). These things HAD to be true for anyone from Wagner to attend the pool party, and I believe we know from MMQC that Wagner students (current or grads) attended the party -- which suggests the friendships were still fresh enough to pursue as part of the search?

Anyway, that's how I have it framed in my mind. It's a unique set of circumstances, for sure.

This makes perfect sense.
If there were no bonds, it is unlikely she would have invited them , and unlikely they would have attended.
She had moved on from that part of her life but there seemed to be friends that she kept in contact with, at least on a social level

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Sylvia had PERFECT TEETH! I always was jelous of her smile. She could melt a mans heart with that smile, and I'm sure she did.

MMQC - Did Sylvia ever express any concerns regarding men or boys that might have been interested in her at that time.

BBM: Skeet, I recall this from earlier in this thread:

Thread 3, Post 174, between Skeet & MMQC

Originally Posted by skeet:
Her smile could melt grown men, do you remember if there were any grown men that she felt were being a little to friendly with her, any professors maybe?

Response by MMQC:
She never mentioned anything to me about such advances.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Beyond what we know, I am sure there were neighborhood and family connections, future family connections, and the connections of Sylvia and her fiancé which brings me back to wanting to know why he was not at her party, and the feeling that there has to be more to this than we know. If there was tension in their relationship before she disappeared, and having an argument the night she disappears, there are some natural conclusions that would be drawn. I wonder if they broke up, and this is known, would the purpose of this whole thread be to articulate what can’t be said outright for whatever reason?

But if they didn’t break up, and he couldn’t attend her party because of a band gig, then I don’t know. What was going through her mind when she left the car?

So, we (I) plod along in the dark…
It is really nice to have more of a sense of Sylvia, though; “the college girl”, that exciting biology trip to Bermuda, and the joy of being a musician. She had a lot going for her; smart and beautiful, too.

 

[Jmoose]

Beyond what we know, I am sure there were neighborhood and family connections, future family connections, and the connections of Sylvia and her fiancé which brings me back to wanting to know why he was not at her party, and the feeling that there has to be more to this than we know. If there was tension in their relationship before she disappeared, and having an argument the night she disappears, there are some natural conclusions that would be drawn. I wonder if they broke up, and this is known, would the purpose of this whole thread be to articulate what can’t be said outright for whatever reason?

But if they didn’t break up, and he couldn’t attend her party because of a band gig, then I don’t know. What was going through her mind when she left the car?

So, we (I) plod along in the dark…
It is really nice to have more of a sense of Sylvia, though; “the college girl”, that exciting biology trip to Bermuda, and the joy of being a musician. She had a lot going for her; smart and beautiful, too.

As a woman whose boyfriend (and subsequent husband) played rugby at an international level, I can say that sometimes you can't wait to plan stuff when the fiance can attend, otherwise a good chunk of your life is lived in waiting-the fact that BF/F wasn't present at the party might not be significant, although the timing of the party and Sylvia's disappearance might indicate otherwise. I wish we knew why he wasn't there. Band gig, or tension in the relationship, or maybe he had a disdain for her friends. Maybe he had a family commitment of his own. Still, the timing...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

As a woman whose boyfriend (and subsequent husband) played rugby at an international level, I can say that sometimes you can't wait to plan stuff when the fiance can attend, otherwise a good chunk of your life is lived in waiting-the fact that BF/F wasn't present at the party might not be significant, although the timing of the party and Sylvia's disappearance might indicate otherwise. I wish we knew why he wasn't there. Band gig, or tension in the relationship, or maybe he had a disdain for her friends. Maybe he had a family commitment of his own. Still, the timing...

BBM: I could see that. No way to know, of course, but you make a good point. After all, he had graduated (and perhaps left "college life" behind) what -- 3 years earlier? I know we've explored the Wagner-friend connections as possibly being through him, but maybe many of them weren't. (All we really know about this is that MMQC said she thinks SL met her BF/F through a Wagner bandmate, right?) it's also possible that he could only take so much of her college life at this point. This was August -- presumably SL graduated in May. They may have celebrated her graduation earlier in the year. The party could have just been about SL and her friends. Purely speculating.

 

[rosemadderlake]

As a woman whose boyfriend (and subsequent husband) played rugby at an international level, I can say that sometimes you can't wait to plan stuff when the fiance can attend, otherwise a good chunk of your life is lived in waiting-the fact that BF/F wasn't present at the party might not be significant, although the timing of the party and Sylvia's disappearance might indicate otherwise. I wish we knew why he wasn't there. Band gig, or tension in the relationship, or maybe he had a disdain for her friends. Maybe he had a family commitment of his own. Still, the timing...

Bbm: The party and her disappearance could well be completely unrelated but I sense the hesitation to say definitively why he was not there. I am assuming Sylvia knew why he wasn’t there. -And, how did Sylvia really feel one way or the other about it? –And, if it was no big deal why the hesitation? I might be really upset if my fiancé showed disdain for my friends and that may well have been an undercurrent in their story. These pieces, they connect because of the close timing to her disappearance. I can’t help but think that her upset with her father that night was about more than an acrobatics display... If her best friend was so surprised by her reaction, had not seen that side of her before, that is revealing of perhaps there’s more to it than meets the eye. IMO

 

[Jmoose]

I do think that Sylvia knew why he wasn't at her party-unless he just didn't show up, which I think is unlikely. This couple appears, from the outside 38 years later, to be one whose romance was ending, I think. Which one of them was likely to be the one who would feel the hurt more?

 

[alliemay]

http://gothamist.com/2011/09/02/skeleton_found_in_irene-flooded_sta.php

It's to bad there is no other information on this. It seems like they would at least be able to make a bust of this skull to see what the person looked like.

 

[rosemadderlake]

http://gothamist.com/2011/09/02/skeleton_found_in_irene-flooded_sta.php

It's to bad there is no other information on this. It seems like they would at least be able to make a bust of this skull to see what the person looked like.

Skeet-
Well that image took me aback with the skull's perfect teeth. But it belongs to a young man and is a homicide investigation. Here are two more links.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...nd-basement-treated-homicide-article-1.964273

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/skeleton-found-in-staten-_n_1021780.html

 

[alliemay]

Thanks for finding those Rose, don't know how I missed those articles, (unless I'm going blind from all the reading). I've been on google news archives, phrasing and re-phrasing in the search engine anything I can think of concerning the area.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Thanks for finding those Rose, don't know how I missed those articles, (unless I'm going blind from all the reading). I've been on google news archives, phrasing and re-phrasing in the search engine anything I can think of concerning the area.

Hey, Skeet! I just discovered what tags are for! -- at least on the blog you linked to. If you go to the end of the article you posted, there are these dark gray lozenge-shaped links with single words in them. If you click on, say, "basement" or "skeleton," you get a list of articles tagged the same way, and that's one way you can find updates.

Also, I don't think the skeleton used in the article you posted wasn't the actual one found. It was just an illustration, I think, based on the timing of the article relative to the subsequent investigation. I don't think the one posted with this later article is the real one either, but it is so different that I think it confirms the first one was an illustration. Writers should always use captions when they use these kinds of images, IMO -- it's reasonably confusing.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Thanks for finding those Rose, don't know how I missed those articles, (unless I'm going blind from all the reading). I've been on google news archives, phrasing and re-phrasing in the search engine anything I can think of concerning the area.

bbm: not surprised - me too. -Keep up the good work, Skeet, because you have brought forth some great finds.

I think it would be good at some point to try and get a hold of SI Advance archives around the time she went missing.

I noticed that The Wag was understaffed and had problems getting the paper published at the end of '75 graduation, no May '75 issues, and the first issue published in the fall of '75 is November 3rd.