NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

[Tripod]

I watched the latest on our 11PM local news and they didn't mention the driver's ID, but I can understand that, at this point.
This happened near me and we are a very small, rural county. I think our entire county is rocked to it's core, and the families of the dead and their friends... there are simply no words. The Apple Barrel Country Store and Cafe has been here for more than 30 years and many of it's patrons on Saturday were from the Albany area and NYC. Fall is wonderful in my neck of the woods.

I haven't read this entire thread yet. It's just been a terribly depressing day and about all I can think about are the victims and police and first responders. We also lived in Amsterdam for 6 years and my husband currently works a part-time job in retirement in Amsterdam.
I'm sure I'm privy to more info that I can't post or comment on right now, but we do have to let the NSTB and authorities finish their work. I know the accident's location very well. There are still a few family's members that hadn't been notified as of later this evening, but I believe most are known by now. Prayers for Schoharie, folks. Thanks.

 

[Tripod]

Does anyone know what the weather was like in Schoharie Saturday? Had it rained that day (10/06) or Friday (10/05)?

I've been looking, but couldn't find that info.

It was pretty overcast most of the day and only a few sprinkles a couple of times that didn't amount to anything, so pretty dry and fairly warm, too. No bright sun.

 

[crhedBngr]

I watched the latest on our 11PM local news and they didn't mention the driver's ID, but I can understand that, at this point.
This happened near me and we are a very small, rural county. I think our entire county is rocked to it's core, and the families of the dead and their friends... there are simply no words. The Apple Barrel Country Store and Cafe has been here for more than 30 years and many of it's patrons on Saturday were from the Albany area and NYC. Fall is wonderful in my neck of the woods.

I haven't read this entire thread yet. It's just been a terribly depressing day and about all I can think about are the victims and police and first responders. We also lived in Amsterdam for 6 years and my husband currently works a part-time job in retirement in Amsterdam.
I'm sure I'm privy to more info that I can't post or comment on right now, but we do have to let the NSTB and authorities finish their work. I know the accident's location very well. There are still a few family's members that hadn't been notified as of later this evening, but I believe most are known by now. Prayers for Schoharie, folks. Thanks.

Prayers going up!

Image license purchased from Big Stock Photos

 

[Tripod]

Also from the link. A broadside at that speed would cause catastrophic injuries and deaths inside that limo. bbm

In an earlier press release, the state police said the crash happened about 1:55 p.m. on October 6. The cause of the crash is not yet known. According to reporter Paul Nelson, the limo ran a stop sign on Route 30 and broadsided another vehicle at the Route 30A intersection. “Authorities probing if limo’s brakes may have malfunctioned,” Nelson tweeted.​

The vehicle the limo hit was parked and unoccupied in the store's parking lot. I believe the limo was damaged much more than what anyone has been able to see on news video or in photos. I was very puzzled myself, but am thinking a couple of photos I have seen were not of the limo, but of the other vehicle.

 

[Herat]

I've been reading a different discussion about this accident and most all agree that an 18 year-old "stretch" Ford Expedition was not likely modified in a manner that would make this a truly safe vehicle.

If there wasnt a major upgrade in the suspension, the brakes, the axles, all the weight of 18 passengers, estimated at about 3000 pounds, would make the vehicle unstable and the brakes would likely fail at that stress, as even drum brakes would overheat and melt. Trucks have to have air brakes to handle a steep decline like that and most of these kinds of limo modifications never upgraded any of the major chassis or braking system to match the maximum pax allowed.

Even if they were all wearing shoulder and lap belts, the deceleration forces going from 60 to 0 as they limo hit the embankment and tree would induce massive internal injuries.

The road they were on was such a hazard that trucks had been banned from using it because of the steep decline before the stop sign. The NTSB investigation will determine whether the road had adequate warning for the upcoming downhill stop sign.

My guess is the fault will be shared between the limo modification and the intersection design and lack of adequate warning signing or flashing lights/ rumble strips, etc

It doesn't alleviate the horrible pain these families are going through, and of the pain of all those who witnessed the accident, the store, the driver's family, the limo coumpany, the first responders who only recovered bodies. My sincere sympathies go out to all of them.

 

[Herat]

The vehicle the limo hit was parked and unoccupied in the store's parking lot. I believe the limo was damaged much more than what anyone has been able to see on news video or in photos. I was very puzzled myself, but am thinking a couple of photos I have seen were not of the limo, but of the other vehicle.

The white vehicle in the bushes is the limo, although some shots look like a pickup with a camper top. There is a photo of the tow truck pulling it out and from the angle it looks remarkably intact, without obviously being crumpled. The parked car was a Toyota Highlander and I haven't seen any photos of it

 

[Tripod]

The link says it was a 2001 Ford Excursion limo.....17 years old. How road-worthy could it be for 18 innocent passengers?

And that's a question that sorely needs an answer. I feel pretty certain that some new rules and regs will result from this horrific tragedy. My partially educated guess is that the limo's brakes may well be a factor, but the NSTB will be here on scene for about 5 days and no report or cause will be coming until well after that, unless they do find something that's obviously a causative factor and feel a need to put some immediate recommendations "out there" for public safety. All my opinion.

 

[Tripod]

The white vehicle in the bushes is the limo, although some shots look like a pickup with a camper top. There is a photo of the tow truck pulling it out and from the angle it looks remarkably intact, without obviously being crumpled. The parked car was a Toyota Highlander and I haven't seen any photos of it

Those were my very thoughts for these hours. Tires/wheels did come off the limo and that doesn't show in the photos. Shortly after it happened, some who were in the area or drove by kept reporting the limo was a light gray color, so that's one reason I've wondered if the Highlander was silver, since most late reports say the limo was white.

I was following our local emergency site on FB yesterday and the admins. of that site took down the post and many comments due to rumors and false info flying around, as they do.

I, as well as probably everyone else in our area, worried about my own friends and family, so of course people were scared and wanting as much info as they could get. When they released the final death toll today, it was incomprehensible. At first thought I would have expected there to be nothing much left of that vehicle. After seeing more of the scene and other witness accounts, I can better understand the number of fatalities.

 

[Herat]

The vehicle problem isn't that it's a Ford Expedition

The problem is that the modifications done don't have extra safeguards for the added suspension problems, steering the less stable vehicle and the braking systems are not usually upgraded enough

 

[Satchie]

This photo posted earlier

Source: Schoharie limo crash deadliest in US in nine years

To me shows the limo crossed the highway at an angle into the driveway, and then veered right towards the trees. To me that indicates the driver was trying to avoid crashing into the parking lot. In terms of hitting a parked car and pedestrians, I wonder whether it broadsided them with the rear end as it was swinging round. I have trouble visualizing how a long vehicle like that would turn.

View attachment 150081

 

[crhedBngr]

And that's a question that sorely needs an answer. I feel pretty certain that some new rules and regs will result from this horrific tragedy. My partially educated guess is that the limo's brakes may well be a factor, but the NSTB will be here on scene for about 5 days and no report or cause will be coming until well after that, unless they do find something that's obviously a causative factor and feel a need to put some immediate recommendations "out there" for public safety. All my opinion.

Digging for more information, I found this:

A Fatal Crash Shows a Safety Problem With Stretch Limousines

RBBM

To make a stretch limousine, an ordinary car is cut in half and plates are used to extend the floor and the roof. Pillars in the car, running from the ceiling to the floor, are normally part of a structural cage around the passenger compartment in conventional cars. But in a stretch limousine, the passenger areas are generally not protected by the pillars.

“Where this crash was centered, you have none of that structure,” Mr. Arbelaez said.

Because seats are reconfigured in stretch limousines, the ordinary principles of protection for side-impact crashes do not apply: For a person sitting with her back to the door on one side, the collision comes from the rear; for a person facing her, it is a head-on collision. Officials could not say if the side seats were equipped with safety belts.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

My best guess would be that none were wearing seatbelts probably because there were none required, and the head injuries alone would have been horrific, not to mention internal ones and broken limbs resulting in catastrophic blood loss. Just awful to have to even speculate about this tragedy. Hurts my heart and my stomach. God bless their loved ones.

With that many people in such a confined space it would take only one not wearing a seatbelt to create a massive hazard to everyone else. I'm guessing very few, if any, in the back of the vehicle were wearing a belt so the bodies have probably been churned around somewhat.

Sorry to be graphic.

 

[Tripod]

So sad hearing about this crash. Praying for the families and loved ones of all involved.

A lot of questions at this early stage.

> was this a limo bus VS town car?
> one article states limo was going 60mph. Wondering about speed limit?
> one article says limo heading to reception another says wedding.
> father of couple who rented the limo says he didn't know what they were doing. Wouldn't he have known about wedding if two sons in wedding party?
> did all limo passengers perish? No survivors?
> this crash happened yesterday No media reports until 24 hrs later.

Very sad.

There were some media reports later yesterday. I knew about it, as I live nearby, but just didn't want to start a thread here last night. I can't tell you why, and I did get on WS before I went to bed, but felt too bummed out I guess. LE WAS keeping a tight lid on info yesterday, no doubt about it.

 

[Tripod]

The white vehicle in the bushes is the limo, although some shots look like a pickup with a camper top. There is a photo of the tow truck pulling it out and from the angle it looks remarkably intact, without obviously being crumpled. The parked car was a Toyota Highlander and I haven't seen any photos of it

One photo I've seen a lot is def a pickup with cap, and it's an emergency responder's vehicle. That added to some of my confusion.

 

[Tripod]

I added another red line of travel to the photo. Perhaps the limo veered a bit to the left as opposed to traveling a straight route into the brush.

I believe it did swerve, but I can't post a link so consider it a rumor for the time being.

 

[Sleuth15]

The photo of the limo being pulled out of the ravine shows it to be relatively intact , no broken right side windows, no metal crumple. I agree with others here that it is hard to believe all 17 passengers were killed. Could carbon monoxide poisoning have killed them before the crash, the driver made drowsy from the CO, and failed to navigate the stop and sharp turn due to CO impairment? I think a previous post mentioned a text message that said the limo was not in good shape with rust when it showed up. Perhaps the muffler was loose or rusted what with NY winters and road salt.

 

[Mica]

The vehicle the limo hit was parked and unoccupied in the store's parking lot. I believe the limo was damaged much more than what anyone has been able to see on news video or in photos. I was very puzzled myself, but am thinking a couple of photos I have seen were not of the limo, but of the other vehicle.

Photo of the limousine being removed from scene after crash.

 

[Trident]

Photo of the limousine being removed from scene after crash.

That looks more like it. From what I can see, and I could be wrong, the front end is gone, the top part anyway.

This is too horrible to think about. I can't imagine the grief of the families this AM.

 

[Gardenista]

There is now a for the driver.

 

[cass523]

"The company which operated the vehicle, Prestige Limousine, has had vehicles inspected five times in the past five years and had four vehicles taken out of service, according to Department of Transportation records. The company had not had any crashes over the last two years, records show"

The information below reflects the content of the FMCSA management information systems as of 10/07/2018.

SAFER Web - Company Snapshot SHAHED HUSSAIN

Young couples among 20 killed in limousine crash, families say