NY - Twins, boy and girl, 5, found dead in Bronx apartment, no signs of obvious trauma, Mount Hope, 18 Dec 2023

[10ofRods]

Rigor can happen in 2 hours

Yes, especially with smaller bodies.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Any updates?

 

[starlightstarbright]

Any updates?

Nothing I was able to find. I imagine they are waiting on toxicology to come back.

 

[Tealgrove]

Has anyone considered lead poisoning?

Lead Poisoning (for Parents) - Nemours KidsHealth

Long-term exposure to lead can cause serious health problems, particularly in young kids, so it's important to find out whether your child might be at risk for lead exposure.

kidshealth.org

Common Sources of Lead Poisoning

Lead-Based Paint Contaminated Soil Children's Toys and Jewelry Drinking Water Workplace and Hobby Hazards Traditional Home Remedies and Cosmetics Lead Glazed Ceramic Ware, Pottery and Leaded Crystal Imported Candy Mini Blinds Lead-Based Pai

doh.wa.gov

 

[airportwoman]

Lead poisoning is usually a more gradual kind of thing.

 

[Tealgrove]

Lead poisoning is usually a more gradual kind of thing.

Agreed @airportwoman

Some home remedies and pottery can contain lead. They could have been ingesting it over a period of time until the poison built up to a toxic level and symptoms begin to appear. The children had been sick the week before and weren’t getting any better. Mom was getting ready to take them to the hospital. At this point we don’t know if they were showing minor symptoms that just got brushed aside for a longer period of time.

End stage lead poisoning can cause seizures (foaming at the mouth can come from seizures).

Just something to consider.

 

[katydid23]

Agreed @airportwoman

Some home remedies and pottery can contain lead. They could have been ingesting it over a period of time until the poison built up to a toxic level and symptoms begin to appear. The children had been sick the week before and weren’t getting any better. Mom was getting ready to take them to the hospital. At this point we don’t know if they were showing minor symptoms that just got brushed aside for a longer period of time.

End stage lead poisoning can cause seizures (foaming at the mouth can come from seizures).

Just something to consider.

I've seen decorative vases, bowls, glasses etc at the Dollar Store, that look nice----but it says ,in English only, in small letters---do not use for food/ornamental use only.

I wonder if an immigrant family might not understand that---could they have kept food, fruit, etc in a lead painted bowl, for the children to eat from?

 

[Fika]

Lead poisoning was my first thought because it doesn’t kill fast but a person is sick for a while. They have been sick for a week before. I still think it could be lead.imo

 

[Sjöberg]

For background: I assume there is some real difference in lead use between the EU and the US?

In general, see lead poisoning brought up a lot on american sites like the ones for house renovation or even some stuff for mothers of little kids. Where I live, I don't know of a single death due to lead, nobody tests for lead during renovations and the only context lead poisoning has been mentioned in media in the past decades is eagles getting it due-to lead-containing bullets being used by the hunters. Cigarettte smoke is mentioned as one of the biggest sources of lead. I assume there is a reason why lead is considered a non-issue in the EU, but bought up as a possible COD over here?

 

[katydid23]

For background: I assume there is some real difference in lead use between the EU and the US?

In general, see lead poisoning brought up a lot on american sites like the ones for house renovation or even some stuff for mothers of little kids. Where I live, I don't know of a single death due to lead, nobody tests for lead during renovations and the only context lead poisoning has been mentioned in media in the past decades is eagles getting it due-to lead-containing bullets being used by the hunters. Cigarettte smoke is mentioned as one of the biggest sources of lead. I assume there is a reason why lead is considered a non-issue in the EU, but bought up as a possible COD over here?

In our older buildings, they used lead based paint on the walls. It would crack off and if ingested, it can harm children.

Lead paint is outlawed but very old buildings may still have some.

 

[Bethan]

As the children died within hours of each other & had showed signs of illness in the days prior, I think it most likely the cause was something like septicaemia due to a bacterial infection such as meningococcus.

My opinion only ( as a retired medical practitioner)

 

[Tealgrove]

As the children died within hours of each other & had showed signs of illness in the days prior, I think it most likely the cause was something like septicaemia due to a bacterial infection such as meningococcus.

My opinion only ( as a retired medical practitioner)

But wouldn’t that have shown up at autopsy?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

As the children died within hours of each other & had showed signs of illness in the days prior, I think it most likely the cause was something like septicaemia due to a bacterial infection such as meningococcus.

My opinion only ( as a retired medical practitioner)

Would the behavioral symptoms one of the children had (biting, spitting) also be caused by septicaemia, if that's what they both had? The behavior seems like a clue (?)

 

[Sleepyface]

As the children died within hours of each other & had showed signs of illness in the days prior, I think it most likely the cause was something like septicaemia due to a bacterial infection such as meningococcus.

My opinion only ( as a retired medical practitioner)

I'm surprised to get to this point in the thread, before someone mentioned Sepsis. It does seem likely in view of the details, the poor littles ones.

Just adding a link for awareness incase anyone is not familiar with this serious complication of any type of bacterial infection - Symptoms of sepsis

 

[Bethan]

But wouldn’t that have shown up at autopsy?

Yes I would expect there to be signs at autopsy. Have we heard anything about the autopsy yet? If so I’m sorry, I must have missed it.

 

[IDK]

I believe sepsis would be caused by bacterial or viral infection, and would show up on blood cultures tested during autopsy? Please correct me if that’s not accurate. IMO.

I honestly don’t know what to think, but I feel whoever mentioned the possible use of a home remedy or herbal supplement might be on to something as they can be contaminated with toxic chemicals, especially if from outside the US.

“Mar 28, 2023 — Foaming at the mouth is a rare physical symptom of opioid overdose, seizures, rabies, and poisoning.”

Foaming at the Mouth: Caused by Overdose, Seizures, and Rabies

Foaming at the mouth is a rare physical symptom of opioid overdose, seizures, rabies, and poisoning. Find out what’s causing frothy saliva and how to treat it.

www.healthline.com

 

[IDK]

Interesting that the little boy had been diagnosed with special needs and the little girl was in the process of being evaluated.

I haven’t seen any reports that they had been seen by a doctor at any point during the time frame? Although one was reportedly diagnosed with an ear infection? Very odd, IMO.


“The boy had already been diagnosed with special needs, while his sister was in the process of being diagnosed”

Investigators release new details in death of twin 5-year-olds found dead in NYC apartment

Twin 5-year-olds were found dead inside a Bronx apartment on Monday, according to a law enforcement source.

www.nbcnewyork.com

 

[Fika]

Interesting that the little boy had been diagnosed with special needs and the little girl was in the process of being evaluated.

I haven’t seen any reports that they had been seen by a doctor at any point during the time frame? Although one was reportedly diagnosed with an ear infection? Very odd, IMO.


“The boy had already been diagnosed with special needs, while his sister was in the process of being diagnosed”

Investigators release new details in death of twin 5-year-olds found dead in NYC apartment

Twin 5-year-olds were found dead inside a Bronx apartment on Monday, according to a law enforcement source.

www.nbcnewyork.com

Wondered about that as well. Not much info what was the exact diagnosis.

Do any of you know how long for autopsy/ toxicology results? If it was natural cause like virus or bacteria will the public be updated what happened?

 

[Fika]

About sepsis as someone mentioned before. IMO it’s highly unlikely that two of them would die from sepsis so close to one another. But anything at this point could have really happened.

 

[Pseudonymph]

Interesting that the little boy had been diagnosed with special needs and the little girl was in the process of being evaluated.

This could be coincidental since they are probably in kindergarten which is when many kids are formally evaluated for the first time.