Obstruction of Justice;Accessory to a crime: Is there a case against the Anthony's #3

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You left a bunch of things out that they have done........but I'll let you slide, lol. I think they love Caylee, and miss her terribly. I think they lye in bed every night wondering where Casey killed her, why Casey killed her, how Casey killed her, and where Casey left her after she killed her. They knew from day one she was dead, but they were not going to admit it, because they don't want to lose Casey. It's really all that simple. It's sick.....but it's really easy to figure out. Some parents are enablers, some aren't. Some will crawl to the end of the earth to protect their child, some won't. I'd personally come unglued and my daughter would want to go to jail by the time I was done with her.

Should they be charged??? Yes! Will they be charged??? Doubt it. This is a slam dunk for the prosecution. They don't even need Cindy to testify. If Cindy goes under oath and lies "again" then I think they might bring up charges.


lol, I know I left alot out, I got tired...:crazy: My boys, lol, their 27 & 24, see their always your babies though, said the something along those lines last night when we were talking about the case, "Ma, if you thought for a second that we were involved in anything like that, we wouldn't even make it to processing & booking" and their right. They don't follow the case like I do but they always ask me whats the latest, my youngest always asks me, "so have they thrown the rest of that family in jail yet?" lol, anyhow its all good & I love hearing every1's opinion on here, whether we agree or not. :blowkiss:
 
I love the statue of Lady Liberty, who is blindfolded.....the law applies to everyone or it shouldn't apply to anyone. Grief isn't an excuse for bad behavior or breaking the law. To what extent that gets prosecuted isn't up to anyone here.

Clearly, it is up for consideration by the Prosecutors who don't need either grand parent to testify--George's testimony is secured in the Grand Jury transcripts and Cindy has yet to be truthful in court. This isn't necessarily about what they might say in trial it's about something or things they have already done, IMO.



:clap::clap:

If we all have learned anything over these past 6 months of this case, it is the fact that the A family didn't all become liar's on July 15th. Your character, the principles that you adhere to don't just change, or apply to certain circumstances, they are the very core of who you are and the law is to apply regardless of who you are, who you know or who you blow!
 
Thank you so much, for taking the time to contribute all of this.
I agree that there is no prevailing political climate that would impede the application of every legal tool available to press for justice for Caylee, as well as vindicate all those whose untiring efforts, honor, and dignity have been trampled on and besmirched by the Anthonys.

Thank you!:blowkiss::clap:


You are very welcome.:blowkiss:

That is what I wanted to say, but you said it better!:)
We sure agree.
 
Thanks! I did see where Conway indicated in today's presser that he was seeking immunity. If you know, was that from the State's Atty? There is a definite FBI connection in this case. I believe, from what I read, the State's Attorney would not comment. I wonder if he could possibly also petition the Feds for immunity?


My question is: could both LE & FBI go after them??? they lied to both??? or do the have to get together?????
 
Okay. Accessory- that was quick. Caylee was under 18; nobody gets a pass. Got it.

"Obstruction" is gumbo of different offenses and includes lying to police.

Question. Does the lie have to be about a material fact? Let's say you lie about your weight. Is it Obstruction if your weight is not a material fact?


OOH OOH I got it :wave: :D The correct answer is Yes, and also No.

The material fact issue comes into play in the perjury statutes of Florida.

If the proceeding in which the perjury is committed is an unoffical proceeding,then the lie must be about a material fact in order for the criminal statute to apply.



837.012 Perjury when not in an official proceeding.--

(1) Whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath, not in an official proceeding, in regard to any material matter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) Knowledge of the materiality of the statement is not an element of this crime, and the defendant's mistaken belief that his or her statement was not material is not a defense


Bottom Line:

If Cindy lied about her weight , to an OCSO investigator who was then thrown way off the trail on his mission to solve the Caylee case, maybe it is not Cindy who should expect consequences in that instance.

Perhaps the homicide detective is not cut out for the work. Of course we have seen quite the opposite here and they are all doing outstanding work and are to be applauded!

But, if Cindy pulled the same stunt during LE interviews, with the intent to thwart the investigation, then it would be a crime and she really should have told the truth.

As to perjury in official proceedings, the materiality of the lie is again a legal issue to be decided.



837.02 Perjury in official proceedings.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath in an official proceeding in regard to any material matter, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(2) Whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath in an official proceeding that relates to the prosecution of a capital felony, commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) Knowledge of the materiality of the statement is not an element of the crime of perjury under subsection (1) or subsection (2), and the defendant's mistaken belief that the statement was not material is not a defense.




You can see that materiality is still an issue but the penalties are increased in official proceedings.
Now, contrary to what we'd expect,
The acts of lying to LE when they are investigating a crime, lying to authorities to thwart investigations of criminal activities, etc, are directly enumerated as crimes under the perjury statute, and not the obstruction statute.



837.05 False reports to law enforcement authorities.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever knowingly gives false information to any law enforcement officer concerning the alleged commission of any crime, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) Whoever knowingly gives false information to a law enforcement officer concerning the alleged commission of a capital felony, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
837.055 False information to law enforcement during investigation.--Whoever knowingly and willfully gives false information to a law enforcement officer who is conducting a missing person investigation or a felony criminal investigation with the intent to mislead the officer or impede the investigation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


837.06 False official statements.--Whoever knowingly makes a false statement in writing with the intent to mislead a public servant in the performance of his or her official duty shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or...




As per this section of perjury law in Florida,
It is not the materiality of the statement which defines the appropriateness of charging whoever lied, but it is THE INTENT TO MISLEAD, which is the determining factor. So yes, lying about your weight, if done with the intent to mislead investigators, is a crime.


I really apologize for the length of this post. I can't accurately answer DOTSEYES excellent question without backing up the response so it makes some sense.:blowkiss:

(at least I hope it does :prayer:)
 
I am so hoping NOT! :eek:

It in fact is, but that loophole is closed to them as well. :hug:

No prob, Tippy. I guess great mind do think alike, huh?

About the ramifications. Still, I'd hope there is a case for accessory after the fact, hopefully based on the A's actions post-arrest, for the reasons I already stated. Felony conviction = no right to profit from the case. However, I guess we'll have to wait for MiraclesHappen to awaken later today, read through the thread, and tell us the penalties for each of the levels of possible conviction. You know, misdemeanor = fine; felony = jail? I hope MH keeps us going with our legal education. :blowkiss:


You might regret saying that when you see my latest post :blush::blowkiss:

You know I will do my best to answer these questions. Right now, I'm reading through the thread and worshipping :bow: this--->:coffee::coffee:

Just a note though.

The Anthony's acts do not have to be after the arrest of Casey to fall under the accessory statute.
The crime is about after the fact of the commission of the crime, and not after the fact of the arrest for the crime.:wink:
 
A family has a hard cold heart and now want us to see a soft side because they are so afraid of going to jail with kc. I think they should be fined, arrested or community service......some form of LEnforcement on what they did. Even the run away bride had to pay for her disappearence and lies........why are these people ABOVE the laws????
 
SuziQ - Martha was the Feds., was Vick? I didn't pay attention to his case.

I think both cases were Feds. The Feds are investigating Cindy. So I'm not sure where the charges would come from at this point. Both local and Fed? Usually local drops their case to let the Feds take over because the penalties are harsher.
 
Miracles, thank you for your insight. You have been a great help.
 
OK now check this out this is the federal goverment statue on obstruction on justice and tell me what you think of this????
This entry contains information applicable to United States law only.


A criminal offense that involves interference, through words or actions, with the proper operations of a court or officers of the court.
The integrity of the judicial system depends on the participants' acting honestly and without fear of reprisals. Threatening a judge, trying to bribe a witness, or encouraging the destruction of evidence are examples of obstruction of justice. Federal and state laws make it a crime to obstruct justice.
Obstruction of justice in the federal courts is governed by a series of criminal statutes (18 U.S.C.A. §§ 1501-1517), which aim to protect the integrity of federal judicial proceedings as well as agency and congressional proceedings. Section 1503 is the primary vehicle for punishing those who obstruct or who endeavor to obstruct federal judicial proceedings.
Section 1503 proscribes obstructions of justice aimed at judicial officers, grand and petit jurors, and witnesses. The law makes it a crime to threaten, intimidate, or retaliate against these participants in a criminal or civil proceeding. In addition, section 1503 makes it illegal to attempt the bribery of an official to alter the outcome of a judicial proceeding.
Besides these specific prohibitions, section 1503 contains the Omnibus Clause, which states that a person who "corruptly or by threats of force, or by threatening letter or communication, influences, obstructs, or impedes, or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice" is guilty of the crime of obstruction of justice. This clause offers broad protection to the "due administration of justice." Federal courts have read this clause expansively to proscribe any conduct that interferes with the judicial process.
To obtain a conviction under section 1503, the government must prove that there was a pending federal judicial proceeding, the defendant knew of the proceeding, and the defendant had corrupt intent to interfere with or attempted to interfere with the proceeding.
Two types of cases arise under the Omnibus Clause: the concealment, alteration, or destruction of documents; and the encouraging or rendering of false testimony. Actual obstruction is not needed as an element of proof to sustain a conviction. The defendant's endeavor to obstruct justice is sufficient. "Endeavor" has been defined by the courts as an effort to accomplish the purpose the statute was enacted to prevent. The courts have consistently held that "endeavor" constitutes a lesser threshold of purposeful activity than a criminal "attempt."
Federal obstruction of justice statutes have been used to prosecute government officials who have sought to prevent the disclosure of damaging information. The Watergate scandal of the 1970s involving President Richard M. Nixon is a classic example of this type of obstruction. A number of Nixon's top aides were convicted of obstruction of justice, including former attorney general John N. Mitchell. A federal grand jury named Nixon himself as an unindicted coconspirator for the efforts to prevent disclosure of White House involvement in the 1972 burglary of Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate building complex in Washington, D.C.

Could this be where they get in troube IF when they did the last search of the house and if and only if they found evidence that the tips and leads were not all real...if some of them were false...I keep coming back to this because it only seems like it was after the last search warrent that we started hearing from authoritys about the chance for charges agains the A's even though I think alot of us thought it had happened before that search..
 
I said this on the other thread related to this topic: Consequences and the Anthony's are strangers; lies and the Anthony's are bedfellows. The case against the Anthony's is more than just in the public trust arena. If they are asking for immunity, per their attorney's statement, there is something huge they have been withholding for their own purposes, and that means they have obstructed justice.
 
You cannot lie to the Feds !

I think what says it all is- CA deliberately and knowingly giving the wrong hairbrush.
and then allegedly, making a comment, about she should have given them the toothbrush she used for the dogs. (All the time, people, and money wasted, while CA sat back in amusment for what she pulled off) Disgusting !

Collecting money for their missing grandchild while impeding the investigation should be a
crime in itself. FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD
 
OK now check this out this is the federal goverment statue on obstruction on justice and tell me what you think of this????
This entry contains information applicable to United States law only.


A criminal offense that involves interference, through words or actions, with the proper operations of a court or officers of the court.
The integrity of the judicial system depends on the participants' acting honestly and without fear of reprisals. Threatening a judge, trying to bribe a witness, or encouraging the destruction of evidence are examples of obstruction of justice. Federal and state laws make it a crime to obstruct justice.
Obstruction of justice in the federal courts is governed by a series of criminal statutes (18 U.S.C.A. §§ 1501-1517), which aim to protect the integrity of federal judicial proceedings as well as agency and congressional proceedings. Section 1503 is the primary vehicle for punishing those who obstruct or who endeavor to obstruct federal judicial proceedings.
Section 1503 proscribes obstructions of justice aimed at judicial officers, grand and petit jurors, and witnesses. The law makes it a crime to threaten, intimidate, or retaliate against these participants in a criminal or civil proceeding. In addition, section 1503 makes it illegal to attempt the bribery[/B] of an official to alter the outcome of a judicial proceeding.
Besides these specific prohibitions, section 1503 contains the Omnibus Clause, which states that a person who "corruptly or by threats of force, or by threatening letter or communication, influences, obstructs, or impedes, or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice" is guilty of the crime of obstruction of justice. This clause offers broad protection to the "due administration of justice." Federal courts have read this clause expansively to proscribe any conduct that interferes with the judicial process.
To obtain a conviction under section 1503, the government must prove that there was a pending federal judicial proceeding, the defendant knew of the proceeding, and the defendant had corrupt intent to interfere with or attempted to interfere with the proceeding.
Two types of cases arise under the Omnibus Clause: the concealment, alteration, or destruction of documents; and the encouraging or rendering of false testimony. Actual obstruction is not needed as an element of proof to sustain a conviction. The defendant's endeavor to obstruct justice is sufficient. "Endeavor" has been defined by the courts as an effort to accomplish the purpose the statute was enacted to prevent. The courts have consistently held that "endeavor" constitutes a lesser threshold of purposeful activity than a criminal "attempt."
Federal obstruction of justice statutes have been used to prosecute government officials who have sought to prevent the disclosure of damaging information. The Watergate scandal of the 1970s involving President Richard M. Nixon is a classic example of this type of obstruction. A number of Nixon's top aides were convicted of obstruction of justice, including former attorney general John N. Mitchell. A federal grand jury named Nixon himself as an unindicted coconspirator for the efforts to prevent disclosure of White House involvement in the 1972 burglary of Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate building complex in Washington, D.C.

Could this be where they get in troube IF when they did the last search of the house and if and only if they found evidence that the tips and leads were not all real...if some of them were false...I keep coming back to this because it only seems like it was after the last search warrent that we started hearing from authoritys about the chance for charges agains the A's even though I think alot of us thought it had happened before that search..

That is the biggest problem (in red) with the application section 1503 US Code to the actions of the Anthony family as they stand.:blowkiss:

They have not purposefully acted to interfere with a pending federal matter.

That takes them outside the boundaries of this section of the US Code which therefore won't apply.:blowkiss:

jmho
 
I think both cases were Feds. The Feds are investigating Cindy. So I'm not sure where the charges would come from at this point. Both local and Fed? Usually local drops their case to let the Feds take over because the penalties are harsher.



If it flies, I don't know where it will end up either.

Your welcome!:blowkiss:
 
I agree - don't go into shock!:) I would be completely blown away to find out that GA or CA helped dispose of the body. BUT I do believe that they have;
1. Knowingly lied about KC's past behavior, making her out to be "mother of the year" yet other's have made statements that claim that CA said that KC was a sociopath, liar, thief, etc...
2. Knowingly lied about events that lead up to the 15th of June, as well as what actually took place between CA & KC at their home on June 15th
3.) Knowingly lied about details relating to contact with KC, whether by phone or in person, between June 15th thru July 14th
4.) Knowingly lied about missing items from inside or outside of their home that may have been related to the case
5.) Knowingly cleaned & removed items from a vehicle that they had expressed concerns about in relation to the smell & the fact that a daughter & grandchild were missing (to the guy at the tow yard including GA explaining that his daughter & grandchild were missing in addition to CA's 911 call, "it smells like theres been a damn dead body in the car")
6.) Knowingly withholding evidence such as Klee's hairbrush, jcpenny reciepts and god knows what else
7.) Making false claims of sitings of Klee in the hope of taking the focus off of KC


I'm pretty sure that others could easily add to this list things that stand out to them.

I do have a question though, how does any of the things that CA & GA have done throughout this case thus far, such as those listed above, exhibit or validate their love for Klee? Could you please explain that to me? I could see (although I wouldn't do it for my sons nor would they do it for me, we all had this conversation last night around the table when they all stopped in for a visit, we all agreed that this is far from love - love should never require this) how they might claim that out of their (sick)love for KC they did these things for her but where is the love for Caylee in any of this?

Nice list. Shows that they were 'mistruthing' right from the get go.

From the momment they realized she was gone and used that fact to get free PR for the possible killer.. that isn't love. That is using her.

Also, they used their status as the GP to try and prevent the searches for Caylee. They smeared any and all who were involved. They vilified them. For trying to find that baby.

And for those who where mourning that baby, they took the memoral stuff, etc.

Sorry... They left loving grand parent stage the moment they realized what the deal was.. and did the things on that list.
 
That is the biggest problem (in red) with the application section 1503 US Code to the actions of the Anthony family as they stand.:blowkiss:

They have not purposefully acted to interfere with a pending federal matter.

That takes them outside the boundaries of this section of the US Code which therefore won't apply.:blowkiss:

jmho

Isn't kidnapping a federal offense. Since it general dealt with crossing state lines, big money, etc??

Didn't the A's themselves demand the FBI to get involved?
 
I saw earlier that the As never followed up on their initial FBI interviews. They were supposed to, but never returned. When the interviews were broadcast in the media, the As feigned shock about having been recorded.

I know around the time of Larry Garrison's departure as Spokesman, Cindy's emails were forwarded to the FBI, as were the "hacked" emails to Kathy Belich. At that time, Cindy indicated that "now that Nejame is no longer representing us, we are free to meet with the FBI again," which I thought was odd because I am sure he never prevented them from doing so. He may have advised them about being cautious about lying to the Feds.

Cindy has made it her mantra that lying isn't a crime, but I think she may find that does not apply.

Very interesting that we've not heard anything further about the hacked emails, now that you mention it. We'll have to ask MH if that would fall into the obstruction/accessory charges.

Apparently neither Cindy nor her attorneys have read the statutes about lying being a crime!
 
Isn't kidnapping a federal offense. Since it general dealt with crossing state lines, big money, etc??

Didn't the A's themselves demand the FBI to get involved?


The part I put in bold red says there has to be a pending actual federal case with which they are intentionally interfering.

It doesn't cover potential cases. :wink::blowkiss:
 
Very interesting that we've not heard anything further about the hacked emails, now that you mention it. We'll have to ask MH if that would fall into the obstruction/accessory charges.


When Cindy went on her email rant, I found it interesting that no police report was filed. It is not a crime for media to pick up her rant, but I don't remember what it involved. If it was done to mislead LE, yeah there can be criminal consequences.
If it was just a rant without intent to screw up the investigation then it would not be a crime. But, that said, she could have morphed it into a crime by filing a false police report.:wink:
WHICH WE ALL KNOW WAS NOT FILED --gee I wonder why.



Apparently neither Cindy nor her attorneys have read the statutes about lying being a crime!

I ABSOLUTELY agree. It blows my boggled -by -this-case-mind, that an Atty would make admissions about criminal activities.

:blowkiss:


I am putting this so it will post my response above in green. (message was too short)
 
To my knowledge, there are no federal charges, right? But as Tippy mentioned early this morning, the 'hijacked' emails, wouldn't that be a federal issue, since that's internet related? It kind of seems to me that LE has a plethora of statements/actions on which they could act, if they so choose.

MH, I like that you've added perjury issues. LOL. What other potential charges are out there that LE can add to their arsenal? Another question: Do we know if the recorded statements to LE were under oath? I suspect they were, but don't really know.

Finally, MH, if you were the SA, would you charge them, and if so, with what?
 
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