OH - Annabelle Richardson, newborn, found in shallow grave, Carlisle, 7 May 2017 #1

[gitana1]

There are a series of charges, right? Abuse of corpse, etc

Yes. My prediction is based on how women in her demographic are typically perceived when they kill their kids and how they are typically sentenced.

People are largely unwilling to find young women culpable for neonatocide for a variety of cultural and psychological reasons. She fits precisely the neonaticide profile. Exactly.

Young. Unmarried. Scared of mommy. Unwanted pregnancy. Secrecy. Concealed the pregnancy. Concealed the birth and was totally quiet during it. Didn't ask for help for a supposed stillborn. Concealed the body.

But it's hard for many to not feel empathetic or to accept that she could have knowingly killed her child. And even if they find she knowingly killed her infant people are unwilling to sentence these young women harshly.

 

[iluvmua]

Yes. My prediction is based on how women in her demographic are typically perceived when they kill their kids and how they are typically sentenced.

People are largely unwilling to find young women culpable for neonatocide for a variety of cultural and psychological reasons. She fits precisely the neonaticide profile. Exactly.

Young. Unmarried. Scared of mommy. Unwanted pregnancy. Secrecy. Concealed the pregnancy. Concealed the birth and was totally quiet during it. Didn't ask for help for a supposed stillborn. Concealed the body.

But it's hard for many to not feel empathetic or to accept that she could have knowingly killed her child. And even if they find she knowingly killed her infant people are unwilling to sentence these young women harshly.

If they can prove that she knowingly killed her child and IMO she did than I hope she gets made an example of.

Being scared of what mommy might think just does not cut it with me.

Jmo

 

[gitana1]

She buried her baby in her own backyard, and put flowers on the grave. She returned to the same medical practice to refill her bc pills, when she could have gone anywhere else. She freely told the DR she had buried her (stillborn) baby in her backyard. She cried loudly enough when telling the doctor this to be heard from outside the examination room.

What consciousness of guilt? What remorseless, indifferent "disposal" of the body?

Replying to points in your earlier post..

Her DR told her to expect to give birth in 8-10 weeks, not in 11 days. Did Skylar want the baby? No. And she never said otherwise. Not to any doctor, and not to the police. Did she look up "how to get rid of a baby"? Yes. If I understand correctly, she made a single search, imo, probably pretty shortly after she returned home from finding out she was for sure pregnant.

Does that search mean she wasn't in denial? No. If anything, it means she WAS in denial, imo, and hoping for a way to magically make things different.

I believe her- and see no reason not to- when she said that she thought she had more time to figure out what to do, how to tell. Meanwhile, she was still a teenager, about to graduate from high school, looking forward to her high school prom.

A whole lot of full grown adults would respond in the same way- putting off facing something they didn't want to /didn't know how to face, until they absolutely had to.

As for the next day texts about her belly. Sent to her dreadful mother. What they communicate to me is that Skylar believed her mother's love was conditional, that she'd forfeited that " love" by having a big belly, and that she was desperate to reclaim that "love."

I was responding to a specific question as to how a coroner could find that a person died of homicidal violence without knowing. Cause of death.

Your argument is better made to the coroner who made the decision, the cops who arrested her and the DA who decided to prosecute.

The court found probable cause to bind her over to trial. It's a great defense argument.

I find she fits the demographic exactly of young women who intentionally conceal their pregnancies and purposefully kill their babies. Precisely.

Your response also fits well the societal approach to dealing with and perceiving such killers.

But I'm not going to make a judgment call about that. Perhaps there are good reasons for such a response. It's a super complex situation and issue.

 

[gitana1]

Manner of death versus cause of death.

In the Caylee Anthony case many also argued that it should be impossible to determine manner of death when the exact cause death.

But it is possible. Happens a lot with no body cases for example.

How is that even possible? We don't know how they died but we know how they died?

 

[BlackCloud]

This is also the era of MTV series "16 and Pregnant" and "Teen Mom."

Two of the most disgusting and uneducational tv series ever (just sayin'...)
Maybe if we have many pregnant teenagers we can say "thanks" to Mr. Redstone (Rothstein)

 

[gitana1]

Holy moly ! That's a response from an attorney

Lol. But I was wrong that most don't dispose of the babies in the trash. You were right. Seems like a lot do. I think I got that from data during the Casey Anthony trial which indicated that most mothers who kill their babies/toddlers dispose of them within a mile of home and in water and/or womb-like conditions.

But I don't think those were neonaticides.

 

[Hope4More]

I was responding to a specific question as to how a coroner could find that a person died of homicidal violence without knowing. Cause of death.

Your argument is better made to the coroner who made the decision, the cops who arrested her and the DA who decided to prosecute.

The court found probable cause to bind her over to trial. It's a great defense argument.

I find she fits the demographic exactly of young women who intentionally conceal their pregnancies and purposefully kill their babies. Precisely.

Your response also fits well the societal approach to dealing with and perceiving such killers.

But I'm not going to make a judgment call about that. Perhaps there are good reasons for such a response. It's a super complex situation and issue.

Aaah, Gitana. Skylar fitting a profile isn't evidence of guilt. That the State brought the charges they did doesn't mean they have a strong or even a particularly good case. That the State conducted itself as it did pre-trial does mean they are rather lacking in the ethical department, but that's not terribly unusual for over zealous DA's.

And, I doubt very much my thoughts about this case fit a "societal approach to dealing with and perceiving such killers." I wish they did. Would mean less lynch mob mentality, more genuine belief that charges against a defendant don't equate with guilt, and agreement that the State has no business accusing anyone of murder if they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt a murder even took place.

 

[gitana1]

If they can prove that she knowingly killed her child and IMO she did than I hope she gets made an example of.

Being scared of what mommy might think just does not cut it with me.

Jmo

I'm on the fence with that. These are complex situations with super young women/girls in often abusive or borderline abusive situations who do not attach to the child they're carrying and may not even feel the baby is human.

 

[Gardenista]

And the forensic anthropologist seems to have a different opinion. Who is right?

Live: Richardson's baby's death ruled 'homicidal violence,' doctor says
Dr. Krista Latham, a forensic anthropologist at the University of Indiana, wrote in a report that the skull fractures occurred after the baby died. Latham said she could not find any trauma that could have contributed to the newborn’s death.

These prosecutors need to lose their law licenses. This was THEIR WITNESS, so they knew the skull fractures occurred after death. I'm disgusted with them.

 

[fred&edna]

Thank you for your replies... Detailed or brief... I appreciate them!

Lol. But I was wrong that most don't dispose of the babies in the trash. You were right. Seems like a lot do. I think I got that from data during the Casey Anthony trial which indicated that most mothers who kill their babies/toddlers dispose of them within a mile of home and in water and/or womb-like conditions.

But I don't think those were neonaticides.

 

[Hope4More]

Thank you.
I hope we get to hear this. If true, that might change my opinion.

Only that one article gets the sequence wrong/confused.

1. Skylar interviewed first time. No mention of burning.

2. Skylar's parents allowed in room, videoed. No mention of burning.

3. LE digs up grave, bones are examined, forensic anthropologist says bones charred.

4. Skylar is interrogated second time. LE asks her about "the fire." She has no idea what they're talking about.

5. She is either coerced/led into "confessing" about the lighter, or comes clean. Jury will have to decide which is true, and relevance, if any.

 

[gitana1]

Aaah, Gitana. Skylar fitting a profile isn't evidence of guilt. That the State brought the charges they did doesn't mean they have a strong or even a particularly good case. That the State conducted itself as it did pre-trial does mean they are rather lacking in the ethical department, but that's not terribly unusual for over zealous DA's.

And, I doubt very much my thoughts about this case fit a "societal approach to dealing with and perceiving such killers." I wish they did. Would mean less lynch mob mentality, more genuine belief that charges against a defendant don't equate with guilt, and agreement that the State has no business accusing anyone of murder if they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt a murder even took place.

The data is pretty clear that young women who kill their newborns almost never face serious consequences and that culturally we perceive them with more empathy and less of an ability to find them culpable. That's research. Not me.

I also don't think forming opinions based on logic and fact is the same as a lynch mob. Not one person here is calling for this young woman to be hung and found guilty without trial.

That's a hyperbolic and defensive response, IMO, to positions with which one differs as to criminal allegations.

If simply forming an opinion prior to trial were inidicative of a lynch mob, man, websleuths would be the mobbiest of mobs.

Fitting a profile is one part of the puzzle for me. Not the whole enchilada.

You know lawyers are literally trained to dispassionately assess stated facts and see and argue each side. That certainly doesn't mean we are right. But it does mean we are less likely to lack logic and just be part of some senseless mob, in the forming of our opinions. However, I'm not seeing evidence of a mob mentality on the part of anyone on here at all.

For me, I don't feel any particular anger toward this young woman. It's a tragic mess all around. And I have a feeling she was subjected to a lot of hell before this ever happened.

 

[osu]

This Ohio case from 2016 is very similar to the Richardson case. Zanesville, OH is located approx 2 hours east of Carlisle. She was sentenced to life in prison without parole.


Former Muskingum student found guilty in discarded-infant case
Friday, May 13th 2016

ZANESVILLE, Ohio (AP) -- The Latest on the trial of a former Ohio college student accused of killing her newborn baby.

A jury has found a former college student in Ohio guilty of aggravated murder in the death of her newborn baby.

The jury in Zanesville issued a quick verdict Friday in the trial of 21-year-old Emile Weaver, a former student at Muskingum University.

She was accused of giving birth to the baby girl in her sorority house bathroom, putting her in a trash bag and leaving it outside the residence in April last year.

Authorities say the infant died from asphyxiation.

Weaver testified she thought the baby was already dead when she put her in the bag.

She also was convicted of abuse of a corpse and tampering with evidence.

Former Muskingum student found guilty in discarded-infant case
———————————————————————

In May, an Ohio jury found Weaver guilty of aggravated murder, abuse of a corpse and tampering with evidence, according to the Associated Press.

On Monday, she was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-term-for-tossing-newborn-into-trash-to-die/

 

[princessdana]

don't buy her fake sweet little girl voice or her selective shaking or her "I was scared I didn't know what to do" reply to everything. her actions speak volumes.

 

[gitana1]

These prosecutors need to lose their law licenses. This was THEIR WITNESS, so they knew the skull fractures occurred after death. I'm disgusted with them.

No. They knew that one expert disagreed with theirs.

 

[squareandrabbet]

There are lots of people who do not watch those types of shows. As I said before, I'm an RN and love true crime. I do not expect that others will have the same skills/information/etc that I do. We will never know what she really did or did not do to that baby. We just won't. The ONLY right answer in that scenario was to call 911 and then wake her parents. She could've done 10,000 other things, but that was the only action that would've saved the baby's life.

And, squeezing, actually could be an approved lifesaving action. It's actually how you do CPR on an infant when you have two rescuers. Again, not that I would've expected her to know that.

Interesting! See, I was thinking that maybe you'd do something like massage the infant heart gently with an open palm... maybe chafe some pulse points (I might have gotten the latter idea from adults in Jane Austen and Gone with the Wind, lol, both of which I had read before I was 14 but I'm willing to grant that it's highly likely SR did not, etc.). And I also tend to internalize everything I see, with the result that I will, for example, never, ever remove a puncturing object from any person's body no matter where it is until they can get medical assistance; because I once saw part of a "Rescue 911" where some poor toddler running with his toothbrush, fell and shoved it right through the back of his trachea; simply because you don't know what that puncturing object might be holding in.

Lol. But I was wrong that most don't dispose of the babies in the trash. You were right. Seems like a lot do. I think I got that from data during the Casey Anthony trial which indicated that most mothers who kill their babies/toddlers dispose of them within a mile of home and in water and/or womb-like conditions.

But I don't think those were neonaticides.

I think I found that stat from the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, or similarly named entity. Will have to go back and see if I can find it... not sure you ran across this study in the course of your research, but I thought it might interest some...

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/...com/&httpsredir=1&article=1181&context=wmjowl

"Prom Mom Killers: The Impact of Blame Shift and Distorted Statistics on Punishment for Neonaticide"

The paragraph on Kristin Sundberg already has a typo, which does not fill me with peer-reviewed confidence; but I suppose William & Mary turns out acceptable enough scholars to trust it.

 

[gitana1]

This Ohio case from 2016 is very similar to the Richardson case. Zanesville, OH is located approx 2 hours east of Carlisle. She was sentenced to life in prison without parole.


Former Muskingum student found guilty in discarded-infant case
Friday, May 13th 2016

ZANESVILLE, Ohio (AP) -- The Latest on the trial of a former Ohio college student accused of killing her newborn baby.

A jury has found a former college student in Ohio guilty of aggravated murder in the death of her newborn baby.

The jury in Zanesville issued a quick verdict Friday in the trial of 21-year-old Emile Weaver, a former student at Muskingum University.

She was accused of giving birth to the baby girl in her sorority house bathroom, putting her in a trash bag and leaving it outside the residence in April last year.

Authorities say the infant died from asphyxiation.

Weaver testified she thought the baby was already dead when she put her in the bag.

She also was convicted of abuse of a corpse and tampering with evidence.

Former Muskingum student found guilty in discarded-infant case
———————————————————————

In May, an Ohio jury found Weaver guilty of aggravated murder, abuse of a corpse and tampering with evidence, according to the Associated Press.

On Monday, she was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-term-for-tossing-newborn-into-trash-to-die/

That case had some good facts. Like a fresh corpse, COD and her text to her boyfriend, etc.

And yet:

"On Monday, she was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

The stiff sentence was also surprising, however, as it stood in sharp contrast to another, remarkably similar case from the same school.

In 2002, Muskingum student Jennifer “Nikki” Bryant wrapped her newborn in a blanket and put the baby in a trash can, where the child died. Bryant pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, child endangering and abuse of a corpse. She was sentenced to three years in prison but only served seven months."

Much more typical. In line with what I predicted above for this case.

 

[gitana1]

Interesting! See, I was thinking that maybe you'd do something like massage the infant heart gently with an open palm... maybe chafe some pulse points (I might have gotten the latter idea from adults in Jane Austen and Gone with the Wind, lol, both of which I had read before I was 14 but I'm willing to grant that it's highly likely SR did not, etc.). And I also tend to internalize everything I see, with the result that I will, for example, never, ever remove a puncturing object from any person's body no matter where it is until they can get medical assistance; because I once saw part of a "Rescue 911" where some poor toddler running with his toothbrush, fell and shoved it right through the back of his trachea; simply because you don't know what that puncturing object might be holding in.

I think I found that stat from the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, or similarly named entity. Will have to go back and see if I can find it... not sure you ran across this study in the course of your research, but I thought it might interest some...

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/...com/&httpsredir=1&article=1181&context=wmjowl

"Prom Mom Killers: The Impact of Blame Shift and Distorted Statistics on Punishment for Neonaticide"

The paragraph on Kristin Sundberg already has a typo, which does not fill me with peer-reviewed confidence; but I suppose William & Mary turns out acceptable enough scholars to trust it.

Wow. Super interesting article. Thanks for that. I immediately noted:

"Problems, however, can arise when we, as a society, are so disturbed by the nature of the crime that we revert to a type of collective denial, or even collective blame, and automatically reduce the accountability of young mothers committing this horrific crime. Society must be challenged to collectively deal with the problem of neonaticide now to end this horror for both the child victim and the child mother."

 

[Hope4More]

The data is pretty clear that young women who kill their newborns almost never face serious consequences and that culturally we perceive them with more empathy and less of an ability to find them culpable. That's research. Not me.

I also don't think forming opinions based on logic and fact is the same as a lynch mob. Not one person here is calling for this young woman to be hung and found guilty without trial.

That's a hyperbolic and defensive response, IMO, to positions with which one differs as to criminal allegations.

If simply forming an opinion prior to trial were inidicative of a lynch mob, man, websleuths would be the mobbiest of mobs.

Fitting a profile is one part of the puzzle for me. Not the whole enchilada.

You know lawyers are literally trained to dispassionately assess stated facts and see and argue each side. That certainly doesn't mean we are right. But it does mean we are less likely to lack logic and just be part of some senseless mob, in the forming of our opinions. However, I'm not seeing evidence of a mob mentality on the part of anyone on here at all.

For me, I don't feel any particular anger toward this young woman. It's a tragic mess all around. And I have a feeling she was subjected to a lot of hell before this ever happened.

Have you read anything of the local media coverage from the beginning of this case? The response there & in her hometown is the definition of lynch mob mentality. She was judged guilty & a monster from day one after the State alleged -to the public- she'd burned her baby, based on one expert's opinion, later withdrawn.

The State has not presented any evidence that Skylar's baby was born alive. No evidence has been presented that Skylar murdered her baby. The coroner testified it is not possible to know either of those things based on physical evidence. That's an objective take.

Given the lack of evidence, no, i do not believe the baby was born alive. My opinion about what the consequences should be for Skylar is based on that belief. Personally, I'd still have some compassion for Skylar if I thought she'd panicked and didn't do what she needed to do to save the baby's life if born alive, but I'd have zero compassion, actually, if I believed she intentionally murdered her baby.

 

[Hope4More]

No. They knew that one expert disagreed with theirs.

? In response to......?