OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[embufum]

I'd be very interested to know details of the supposed search of the 'completely dug up' construction area.

1) Was it actually searched? Is there proof it was searched? Are there people who took part who'll vouch for that?
2) When was it searched? Monday the 3rd of April? Week later? Month later? Certainly, the 'completely dug up' areas at some point were filled and/or paved. When did that happen in relation to time of any search?
3) By whom was it searched? LE? Volunteers? Dogs? Whose dogs? Any digging done?
4) Was the entire construction area searched? The entire building? Crawl spaces?
5) Any unusual odor detected in the Sunshine Market space when it opened for business? Other spaces?

Anecdote: I've spent many hundreds of hours of my life searching - for buried Civil War relics - using a metal detector. I know from experience when I'm on a new site for the first time, my results improve after I've found that first relic. In other words, after I know for sure soldiers were there and there are relics in the ground, suddenly I start to find stuff more quickly. Just human nature. When you know - rather than suppose or hope or wonder - that what you are searching for is there, your focus and intensity greatly improve.

Now, the lead detective himself expressed doubts - understandably - as to why in the world Brian would have entered the construction area. If that was the mindset of searchers, as opposed to, say - we're 90% sure he's here, let's find him - that mindset may well - based on my anecdotal experiences - have impacted results. Dogs on the other hand, shouldn't be impacted by this sort of thing. But their handlers might....

Good questions but I'm of the opinion we are never going to get the answers. This is a 12 year old cold case and on top of that I'm not sure if Det Hurst would answer all of them. The sad thing is when he was nice enough to answer questions IMO I don't think the questions were all that detailed. We have got a few more answers but nothing that really digs deep (no pun) into details most people would like to know.

 

[Ozoner]

He has to be in the building. A man will never give up the woman he loves and leave on his own without her. If the cadaver dogs went in so quickly maybe he was barely still alive. Another reason they didn’t pick up cadaver scent.

He could have still been alive, but even if he wasn't, he could have been trapped behind an impermeable barrier, like inside a galvanized duct. If he was accidentally buried several feet deep, the microscopic particles that cadaver dogs detect might not have had time to reach the surface.

 

[itsrak]

Good questions but I'm of the opinion we are never going to get the answers. This is a 12 year old cold case and on top of that I'm not sure if Det Hurst would answer all of them. The sad thing is when he was nice enough to answer questions IMO I don't think the questions were all that detailed. We have got a few more answers but nothing that really digs deep (no pun) into details most people would like to know.

Embufum, I also feel the answers will never be forthcoming. Sad. But with 'digs deep' I think that subconsciously you may be coming around...!

 

[houndpounder]

The push has to come from the family. To do more.

 

[Looking4Brian]

While getting episode 4 ready I was clipping a phone call that we had with Brian’s cousin. I heard a piece of information that hasn’t been released yet that I’m going to give to you guys before the episode is released because it has been on my mind all night! While the family was packing up Brian’s apartment after his disappearance, they moved his bed and found the word Alone scrawled on the wall. As a Pearl Jam fan myself I’m thinking it is another to the band, like the tattoo! Any thoughts???

 

[MatthewTyler]

While getting episode 4 ready I was clipping a phone call that we had with Brian’s cousin. I heard a piece of information that hasn’t been released yet that I’m going to give to you guys before the episode is released because it has been on my mind all night! While the family was packing up Brian’s apartment after his disappearance, they moved his bed and found the word Alone scrawled on the wall. As a Pearl Jam fan myself I’m thinking it is another to the band, like the tattoo! Any thoughts???

That's really interesting. I looked up the lyrics to their song "Alone":

Thoughts of suicide and alleviation. Anything to get his heart off of the coals.
Does he fly away or just talk about it? Like a seagull born to cry in the wind.

​

I just found those lines interesting. Not sure why he would scribble a song title on the wall, but who knows what could have been going through his mind.

 

[Looking4Brian]

I was thinking with the lyrics that he lost his mom and was hurting, with losing the one he loved he is gonna set out in the world alone.

 

[embufum]

Embufum, I also feel the answers will never be forthcoming. Sad. But with 'digs deep' I think that subconsciously you may be coming around...!

lol Well we need some humor no doubt cause no matter what this poor guy has been missing for over 12 years and yes it's very sad. At the end of the day I would not be surprised if Brian was still in that building. Would love to have the answers to your questions and a few of my own.

There are some questions that Det Hurst will not answer but honestly at this point I think they should let some more info out. You know how people will say someone out there knows something. Well maybe in this case no one but Brian knows and he may not be able to tell us.

 

[embufum]

While getting episode 4 ready I was clipping a phone call that we had with Brian’s cousin. I heard a piece of information that hasn’t been released yet that I’m going to give to you guys before the episode is released because it has been on my mind all night! While the family was packing up Brian’s apartment after his disappearance, they moved his bed and found the word Alone scrawled on the wall. As a Pearl Jam fan myself I’m thinking it is another to the band, like the tattoo! Any thoughts???

Good Lord I just got chills. Not when it's behind the bed no.

 

[Satch]

Good Lord I just got chills. Not when it's behind the bed no.

I just got chills as well! You know with that bit of information maybe Brian wanted to kill himself and do it in a way to make sure that his body was never found. Let's consider:

1.) Medical school is overwhelming for anybody. I was told by a medical student with whom I was friends with years ago that it is the most rigorous study imaginable.
2.) As a doctor you are making value decisions everyday affecting people's lives.
3.) Brian was known to be very close to his family. His Mother's death devastated him, no doubt.
4.) Alexis loved Brian more than anything, but perhaps Brian was not ready to commit to engagement. Consider when he said to her, after his Mother died, "I think you should move on and find someone else."
5.) That night could he have been chatting with Clint and Meredith and talking to the girls as a plan to say goodbye?
6.) Was the call to Alexis and telling her he loved her, a final goodbye?
7.) We also don't know how much Alexis' love for Brian was reciprocated by him.
8.) Brian talked about wanting to be alone. Had dreams of living on an island.
9.) Maybe medical school was more of a way to please Brian's family, but not him. Yet, he couldn't bring himself to tell his friends and loved ones how unhappy he really was with his life.
10.) Now we have the word "Alone" scrawled on the wall of Brian's apartment behind his bed. That's scary, and could certainly show severe depression, and possible anxiety. Medical school, his Mother's death, a potential engagement commitment, certainly did his body and mind no favors. Did Brian vanish forever, to intentionally die, with the goal to never be found?

Satch

 

[Looking4Brian]

I shouldn’t say what I feel but I will. Lol. I think everything you said Satch is very plausible. I also think you can take the intentionally die part out of your theoryand just have Brian walking away for those same reasons. When I began investigating for Comeback I 100% believed Brian met foul play. I don’t think that anymore.

 

[embufum]

I shouldn’t say what I feel but I will. Lol. I think everything you said Satch is very plausible. I also think you can take the intentionally die part out of your theoryand just have Brian walking away for those same reasons. When I began investigating for Comeback I 100% believed Brian met foul play. I don’t think that anymore.

So another one who thinks Brian is still alive?

 

[Satch]

[So another one who thinks Brian is still alive? /QUOTE]

Leaning towards suicide for me. But I agree with Looking4Brian that the reasons I presented could make him walk away. If Brian is still alive, sadly very doubtful in my view, he has left no clues as to his whereabouts for twelve years. To me this suggests that he does not want to be found.

Satch

 

[Tabatha7]

I'm new here but have been following this case for a while. I don't think Brian chose to vanish. To inflict that type of stress on his father and brother, so soon after his mother's death, would be downright cruel. Nor do I think Brian would have sent his girlfriend a message saying he was looking forward to their trip, if he knew he was going to disappear. Again, that would be incredibly cruel on his part.

I believe there are two possibilities:

1 - he did leave the bar and it simply wasn't caught on camera; after leaving the bar he got into trouble and was assaulted and probably killed, tragically.

2 - he got into an altercation in the bar, after most people had left, and someone in the bar disposed of his body.

 

[Looking4Brian]

So another one who thinks Brian is still alive?

Let’s put it this way, I’m not saying that I 100% believe he is alive, but I feel the possibility of Brian being alive is just as good if not better then him meeting foul play. There were a lot of things that we thought we knew that are 100% false and you will hear all of them soon. On a sad note after speaking to Kevin Miles the former President Of Central Ohio Crime Stoppers a month ago while he was in hospice, we got news that he just passed away. He became very close to Randy Shaffer even giving the eulogy at his funeral.

 

[Satch]

I'm new here but have been following this case for a while. I don't think Brian chose to vanish. To inflict that type of stress on his father and brother, so soon after his mother's death, would be downright cruel. Nor do I think Brian would have sent his girlfriend a message saying he was looking forward to their trip, if he knew he was going to disappear. Again, that would be incredibly cruel on his part.

I believe there are two possibilities:

1 - he did leave the bar and it simply wasn't caught on camera; after leaving the bar he got into trouble and was assaulted and probably killed, tragically.

2 - he got into an altercation in the bar, after most people had left, and someone in the bar disposed of his body.

I am open to any theory,

I don't think he would get into an altercation at the bar, because two many people would have seen that.

1.) Leaning towards an accident in the complex either at the construction site or the construction elevator, where Brian's trapped. I think Brian went to talk to the band, couldn't catch up to them, took a wrong turn and fell in one of those areas. He did not get out the normal way.

2.) Also possible that Brian met with foul play after leaving the bar.

3.) My other points above in post #590 suggest possible suicide or that Brian just walked away and has not been seen for twelve years. Two big dents in that theory:

1.) Why would Brian have asked Derrick to go with him that night if he was planning to walk away or commit suicide far away?
2.) Brian by all accounts was too close to his family to kill himself or run away.

Satch

 

[MatthewTyler]

I see certain arguments that come up time and time again trying to refute the running away theory, and while I don't believe that's the strongest possibility myself, some of the arguments against it don't really prove anything.

"Brian wouldn't run away because that would put stress on his remaining family after Renee's death"-- this does not hold much weight at all. Someone who could be at the point of a mental break like Brian may have been would not decide against this simply for the sparing of his family. If more people in a depressed or manic state thought about the family there would be less suicides and runaways in general. I'm not saying Brian didn't care about putting his family in pain, but someone with intentions to take off or kill themself often feel the family will heal and eventually be better off without them.

"Brian would have come back after Randy's death to be there for Derek"-- HIGHLY unlikely imo. Would you honestly show up like a ghost from the past to possibly cause more hurt to those around you if someone who spent the rest of their life looking for you had died. What would Brian even say? "Sorry I was a no show, but here I am again just a little too late to see him" . Personally I wouldn't be able to face people again.

"Brian had a promising career and a woman he loved"--- No, from what we've read and gathered he had a potential career that he was likely to not enjoy and be stressed over. It was common knowledge that Brian liked the music and island scene, and that his mother was his true inspiration for going into med school. As for Alexis, no doubt he cared about her but there was no evidence of a ring and he had told her previously to move on. Signs of possibly breaking away.

"Brian saw his father and invited his brother out with him that night"--- tying up loose ends and saying goodbye?

Again, I know these don't mean much but those are just some arguments I've scene to suggest that Brian couldn't have run away. The bottom line is that we don't know what was going on in his head so to say things like he would care too much for his family or he had a great life is all just guesses.

 

[Looking4Brian]

I see certain arguments that come up time and time again trying to refute the running away theory, and while I don't believe that's the strongest possibility myself, some of the arguments against it don't really prove anything.


"Brian wouldn't run away because that would put stress on his remaining family after Renee's death"-- this does not hold much weight at all. Someone who could be at the point of a mental break like Brian may have been would not decide against this simply for the sparing of his family. If more people in a depressed or manic state thought about the family there would be less suicides and runaways in general. I'm not saying Brian didn't care about putting his family in pain, but someone with intentions to take off or kill themself often feel the family will heal and eventually be better off without them.

"Brian would have come back after Randy's death to be there for Derek"-- HIGHLY unlikely imo. Would you honestly show up like a ghost from the past to possibly cause more hurt to those around you if someone who spent the rest of their life looking for you had died. What would Brian even say? "Sorry I was a no show, but here I am again just a little too late to see him" . Personally I wouldn't be able to face people again.

"Brian had a promising career and a woman he loved"--- No, from what we've read and gathered he had a potential career that he was likely to not enjoy and be stressed over. It was common knowledge that Brian liked the music and island scene, and that his mother was his true inspiration for going into med school. As for Alexis, no doubt he cared about her but there was no evidence of a ring and he had told her previously to move on. Signs of possibly breaking away.

"Brian saw his father and invited his brother out with him that night"--- tying up loose ends and saying goodbye?

Again, I know these don't mean much but those are just some arguments I've scene to suggest that Brian couldn't have run away. The bottom line is that we don't know what was going on in his head so to say things like he would care too much for his family or he had a great life is all just guesses.

I agree with so many of your statements! I have always thought that having dinner with his dad, inviting Derek to come see him, calling Alexis, and going out with friends could’ve been a sign of him saying goodbye. Now whether if it was a goodbye to walk away or a goodbye because of suicide I don’t know. I don’t put much weight into Brian not doing that to his family. My opinion may not be a popular opinion, but once we release everything we have found out some may share my feelings.

 

[MatthewTyler]

I agree with so many of your statements! I have always thought that having dinner with his dad, inviting Derek to come see him, calling Alexis, and going out with friends could’ve been a sign of him saying goodbye. Now whether if it was a goodbye to walk away or a goodbye because of suicide I don’t know. I don’t put much weight into Brian not doing that to his family. My opinion may not be a popular opinion, but once we release everything we have found out some may share my feelings.

For sure. I thought I recalled reading somewhere that Brian wasn't really that close with Derek or his father (at least not as close as he was with his mother) so I find it strange that the one night he decides to see them both and be social with them he just happens to fall into tragedy. As for Alexis, I also find it weird that he happens to disappear the one weekend she was away visiting home. Seems opportunistic to me.

You know more than any of us though obviously, so I'll just wait until further podcasts before I fully commit to any theory haha

 

[XPh]

I see certain arguments that come up time and time again trying to refute the running away theory, and while I don't believe that's the strongest possibility myself, some of the arguments against it don't really prove anything.

"Brian wouldn't run away because that would put stress on his remaining family after Renee's death"-- this does not hold much weight at all. Someone who could be at the point of a mental break like Brian may have been would not decide against this simply for the sparing of his family. If more people in a depressed or manic state thought about the family there would be less suicides and runaways in general. I'm not saying Brian didn't care about putting his family in pain, but someone with intentions to take off or kill themself often feel the family will heal and eventually be better off without them.

"Brian would have come back after Randy's death to be there for Derek"-- HIGHLY unlikely imo. Would you honestly show up like a ghost from the past to possibly cause more hurt to those around you if someone who spent the rest of their life looking for you had died. What would Brian even say? "Sorry I was a no show, but here I am again just a little too late to see him" . Personally I wouldn't be able to face people again.

"Brian had a promising career and a woman he loved"--- No, from what we've read and gathered he had a potential career that he was likely to not enjoy and be stressed over. It was common knowledge that Brian liked the music and island scene, and that his mother was his true inspiration for going into med school. As for Alexis, no doubt he cared about her but there was no evidence of a ring and he had told her previously to move on. Signs of possibly breaking away.

"Brian saw his father and invited his brother out with him that night"--- tying up loose ends and saying goodbye?

Again, I know these don't mean much but those are just some arguments I've scene to suggest that Brian couldn't have run away. The bottom line is that we don't know what was going on in his head so to say things like he would care too much for his family or he had a great life is all just guesses.

Good post and I agree with you 100%. None of the above arguments strike me as reasons to refute the walk away theory.

The argument that does strike me though is why would he take an alternate exit and avoid cameras? If his intention was to walk away, he could have just used the escalator—or waited until everyone went home and then left from his apartment that night. I think in order for me to give serious thought to any theory that involves him being alive, there has to be a connection between his strange method of leaving the building and him walking away. And so far, I haven’t heard that.

The other striking arguement is how could he manage to do this without any credit card activity / signs of making any large cash withdrawals / signs of any research on where to go or how to pull this off. I know the lack of credit card activity was confirmed, I assume LE looked into the other things.

Those are two far more compelling arguments against the walking away theory IMO.

Really looking forward to the next podcast to hear the new information. Great podcast so far!