OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #4

[Looking4Brian]

One question that i have is one that i am hesitant to ask.
Is everything about BS's father's shocking and untimely death caused by a tree limb falling on him, widely accepted as a complete freak accident?
speculation, imo.

Trust me I have asked this question myself and I have seen photos of the tree. It was definitely a freak accident in everyone’s opinion I have asked. There were several people that died around that time due to the hurricane force winds Ohio had. I live about an hour from the area Randy lived and I can tell you it was terrible here.

 

[Tman2004]

When is the next episode of the podcast coming out ?

 

[Kaie]

We actually have thought about this. The only problem with it is Brian seemed to talk to several people off and on including Clint. Brian and Clint only seemed to talk on the phone around drinking holidays or before a party/celebration.

But surely Clint would still try to call Brian's phone after he went missing. I mean there's no question that I would if it were one of my drinking buddies who disappeared and I was one of the last to see them. I might not call excessively, as I'd know that other people are trying too, and I'd be hoping one of them would get through. But I'd still do it.

I sometimes wonder if that friendship gets played down a little too much, maybe by people who have forgotten what college friendships are like (my last stint of living on campus isn't very long ago). When you're a student, the friends who are basically your "go to" people whenever there's a drinking holiday or party, actually do matter to you. You don't necessarily speak every week, or eat lunch at the same canteen table every day etc... and you may have so many friends at uni that you have to spread yourself a bit thin at times. But if they were uniting for occasions like this whenever they arose, they were certainly friends, otherwise they wouldn't bother.

 

[Tman2004]

But surely Clint would still try to call Brian's phone after he went missing. I mean there's no question that I would if it were one of my drinking buddies who disappeared and I was one of the last to see them. I might not call excessively, as I'd know that other people are trying too, and I'd be hoping one of them would get through. But I'd still do it.

I sometimes wonder if that friendship gets played down a little too much, maybe by people who have forgotten what college friendships are like (my last stint of living on campus isn't very long ago). When you're a student, the friends who are basically your "go to" people whenever there's a drinking holiday or party, actually do matter to you. You don't necessarily speak every week, or eat lunch at the same canteen table every day etc... and you may have so many friends at uni that you have to spread yourself a bit thin at times. But if they were uniting for occasions like this whenever they arose, they were certainly friends, otherwise they wouldn't bother.

exactly and even if they did have their arguments and Whatever they’re still not gonna meet up and then go to multiple bars together if they weren’t at least partying friends.

 

[Kaie]

exactly and even if they did have their arguments and Whatever they’re still not gonna meet up and then go to multiple bars together if they weren’t at least partying friends.

There is a strong history of the public narrative being "steered" by the opinions, and understandable plethora emotions, that family and friends were going through when Brian went missing. For example, for a long time we thought that Brian made glowing grades in medical school, but later found out that he was just doing okay. The whole thing about how he was going to propose to Alexis in Miami (a point that was reiterated so many times) seems to be pretty much unfounded. I could name a few more examples but basically, anything that those close to Brian really wanted to be true, was presented as fact.

I think the narrative about Clint and Brian's friendship may have been skewed for similar reasons. It's no secret that Clint fell way out of favour with a lot of people, due to him seeking legal counsel and subsequently refusing a polygraph, or any other further cooperation. So now we hear a lot about them not being such good friends... they squabbled a bit... they weren't that close etc... Meanwhile, it sounds like in reality Brian and Clint had a colourful history of partying together, there's pictures of them looking like they're best buds having a ball, Clint was one of the most recent people to post on Brian's Myspace page (having a dig at him, frat bro style), Brian pushed himself to go out and party with Clint that night even though he was tired. They were friends, and there could have been a whole lot of loyalty in that friendship. Everything that gets pointed out as evidence to the contrary... absence of phone calls for weeks, the odd falling out, one not getting along with the other's girlfriend, figuring out that they're not suited to actually be roommates etc... all sounds consistent with the ups and downs of friendships during college life to me.

When it comes to Clint and Brian, it's hard to know what is relevant, what is true, and what has been blown out of proportion.

 

[Ozoner]

Fast forward to September 2006 and Brian’s phone began ringing after continuously going instantly to voicemail. Cingular explained this was either a glitch or someone turned on Brian’s phone. That statement leads me to believe that Brian’s phone quit communicating with towers and was shut off at some point. I hope this helped explain a little bit more. I’m still looking into all of this to try to make sense of it.

Snipped.
-
1) One of the biggest college campuses in the country
2) September
3) Thousands of students living away from home for the first time
4) Thousands of empty-nest parents continually checking in with those students
5) A significant number of those students valiantly trying to hold onto their high-schools relationships long distance
-
Add those ingredients together, and you get some very busy cell towers.
-
It is entirely possible that Brian's phone seemed to be ringing because the signals from the phones trying to reach Brian were bouncing all over the place trying to find a tower
-
If the "ringing" phone phenomenon had occurred any time of year other than September, then I would be more willing to get on board with the theory that the phone had been turned on. As it stands, we simply don't know; the Cingular engineers have stated as much.
-
It is inappropriate to jump to the conclusion that Brian's phone was turned on when the people in the best position to make that determination--the Cingular engineers--have stated that it is impossible to know. That's the kind of wishful thinking that is the antithesis of following the evidence objectively.

 

[Old Mozez]

@Looking4Brian

I would be great if you could clear some older things out. It concerns partly older episodes as well

- Has it been established why the duo Clint & Brian wanted to go back to UTS the second time?

- Roughly, when you think of Brian's 45 minutes in UTS before he vanished, how would you picture that? (ie , covering most of the time chatting with Amber & Brightan...)?

- Brightan said it was well-known amongst regular bar-guests to be able to exit through a door from the UTS to have a smoke/chat/phonecall, was that the emergency exit she was refering to? In the episode where she is interviewed I picked up a sense she might have been hinting at the construction "portal"..

- Brightan mentioned she was pretty drunk at the UTS, and so was Amber? Or Amber wasn't? They still planned to leave with their vehicle parked in the garage despite this and go to Ambers boyfriend's house?
​

She also mentioned that they talked about Brian accompany them to the garage, but he later never did. (Was it to make sure they arrived there safe and sound, did he have anything else on his mind?)..

- Have you heard time estimates from Hurst when the girls were seen leaving by the escalators? I mean Brightan said 1.55 which we know isn't right. At nearly 1.56 they are on the footage and then one of them visited the restroom after so it must have been later.​

All in all Brightan and Amber were the last persons to conversate with Brian, he stood there with them and then *poof*. It's basically the starting point of hypothesizing vs knowledge. If he didn't re-enter the bar at that point he must have left through the construction door, but why so? (Rhetoric)

I know they have been cleared and all that, I am not suggesting they have anything to do with his disappearance, more that his last known actions evolved around them.

 

[itsrak]

@Looking4Brian

I would be great if you could clear some older things out. It concerns partly older episodes as well

- Has it been established why the duo Clint & Brian wanted to go back to UTS the second time?

- Roughly, when you think of Brian's 45 minutes in UTS before he vanished, how would you picture that? (ie , covering most of the time chatting with Amber & Brightan...)?

- Brightan said it was well-known amongst regular bar-guests to be able to exit through a door from the UTS to have a smoke/chat/phonecall, was that the emergency exit she was refering to? In the episode where she is interviewed I picked up a sense she might have been hinting at the construction "portal"..

- Brightan mentioned she was pretty drunk at the UTS, and so was Amber? Or Amber wasn't? They still planned to leave with their vehicle parked in the garage despite this and go to Ambers boyfriend's house?
​

She also mentioned that they talked about Brian accompany them to the garage, but he later never did. (Was it to make sure they arrived there safe and sound, did he have anything else on his mind?)..

- Have you heard time estimates from Hurst when the girls were seen leaving by the escalators? I mean Brightan said 1.55 which we know isn't right. At nearly 1.56 they are on the footage and then one of them visited the restroom after so it must have been later.​

All in all Brightan and Amber were the last persons to conversate with Brian, he stood there with them and then *poof*. It's basically the starting point of hypothesizing vs knowledge. If he didn't re-enter the bar at that point he must have left through the construction door, but why so? (Rhetoric)

I know they have been cleared and all that, I am not suggesting they have anything to do with his disappearance, more that his last known actions evolved around them.

Yeah, odd that in Brian's final few known moments, he flip-flopped. First, he was going to walk the girls to their car, then didn't, and then he supposedly told Clint and Meredith that he was going to talk to the band, then didn't. What was up? Drunkenness?

 

[Sarahjo]

Was the construction area checked after he went missing or at least the construction workers spoken to? I can't believe if he did have some sort of accident in there that he wouldn't be found when the workers came to finish the job?

If he was hidden so much that he wasn't found during the completion of the construction then this would point away from accidental and more toward intentional concealment of a body?

 

[Old Mozez]

, and then he supposedly told Clint and Meredith that he was going to talk to the band, then didn't. What was up? Drunkenness?

I am pretty sure that statement is mischaracterized. I don't believe Clint said so, he said in one interview that I've read that "Brian liked to talk to the bands", as in Brian's general behaviour when going out visiting bars. It later transformed into that phrase perhaps to enhance suspicion onto the band.

(I'll see if I can find the link)

 

[Ozoner]

@Looking4Brian

There's one point that could be cleared up fairly easily. In episode three of your recent podcast, Brightan mentions that she left her conversation with Amber and Brian in order to use the restroom; that apparently occurred right before the girls departed. Brightan does not specifically say whether Brian was still there when she returned from the restroom. She may have addressed that point elsewhere, but that specific question wasn't addressed in the podcast.
It sounds like Brian had been talking primarily to Brightan throughout the evening while Amber was talking with Clint. Since Brightan left Brian with Amber, what did Amber and Brian talk about while Brightan was in the bathroom? Or did they stand there, awkwardly silent, waiting for Brightan?

 

[Ozoner]

Was the construction area checked after he went missing or at least the construction workers spoken to? I can't believe if he did have some sort of accident in there that he wouldn't be found when the workers came to finish the job?

If he was hidden so much that he wasn't found during the completion of the construction then this would point away from accidental and more toward intentional concealment of a body?

BBM

Not necessarily. He could have been buried accidentally (say in a trench that had already served its purpose), or he could have become wedged in a tight place that no one knew was there or one that was sealed with insulation or drywall before workers knew that Brian was missing.

This DJ was found in a tight crevice that he had entered for an unknown reason (perhaps mere curiosity):
D.J.'s mummified body found in club wall
His remains were found 14 months after he disappeared.

Many burglars have been found in chimneys, some many years after they were last seen alive. The specific cases that I remember (vaguely) occurred before the worldwide-web era, but there are likely some cases to be found online if you care to search.

 

[Looking4Brian]

@Looking4Brian

There's one point that could be cleared up fairly easily. In episode three of your recent podcast, Brightan mentions that she left her conversation with Amber and Brian in order to use the restroom; that apparently occurred right before the girls departed. Brightan does not specifically say whether Brian was still there when she returned from the restroom. She may have addressed that point elsewhere, but that specific question wasn't addressed in the podcast.
It sounds like Brian had been talking primarily to Brightan throughout the evening while Amber was talking with Clint. Since Brightan left Brian with Amber, what did Amber and Brian talk about while Brightan was in the bathroom? Or did they stand there, awkwardly silent, waiting for Brightan?

Brightan has told me on more than one occasion that when they walk off camera at 1:55 am they scoot back and are then standing under the camera and out of camera view. She then went to the restroom and Brian and Amber stayed outside. Brian was supposed to walk them to their car so he was waiting with Amber. Brightan then came back from the restroom and they few spoke for a minute before saying their goodbyes. When I spoke with Amber I asked if she remembered the conversation her and Brian had and she told me she doesn’t. Neither can recall why Brian waited, but didn’t actually walk them to their car. This small detail actually changes a lot in my head because Brian had to be standing out front of the bar no more than 2 minutes before Clint and Meredith are seen leaving on the escalator.

 

[Looking4Brian]

I am pretty sure that statement is mischaracterized. I don't believe Clint said so, he said in one interview that I've read that "Brian liked to talk to the bands", as in Brian's general behaviour when going out visiting bars. It later transformed into that phrase perhaps to enhance suspicion onto the band.

(I'll see if I can find the link)

I am pretty sure that statement is mischaracterized. I don't believe Clint said so, he said in one interview that I've read that "Brian liked to talk to the bands", as in Brian's general behaviour when going out visiting bars. It later transformed into that phrase perhaps to enhance suspicion onto the band.

(I'll see if I can find the link)

Actually both Clint and Meredith’s statement to CPD state that Brian came back into the bar then told them that he was going to talk to the band.

 

[Looking4Brian]

Yeah, odd that in Brian's final few known moments, he flip-flopped. First, he was going to walk the girls to their car, then didn't, and then he supposedly told Clint and Meredith that he was going to talk to the band, then didn't. What was up? Drunkenness?

I would like to know why Brian was flip flopping as well. My theory is that he saw Clint and Meredith coming and wanted to ditch them after the argument him and Clint had. Plus Brian was having an after party at his apartment that night with friends that were not fans of Clint.

 

[Looking4Brian]

There is a strong history of the public narrative being "steered" by the opinions, and understandable plethora emotions, that family and friends were going through when Brian went missing. For example, for a long time we thought that Brian made glowing grades in medical school, but later found out that he was just doing okay. The whole thing about how he was going to propose to Alexis in Miami (a point that was reiterated so many times) seems to be pretty much unfounded. I could name a few more examples but basically, anything that those close to Brian really wanted to be true, was presented as fact.

I think the narrative about Clint and Brian's friendship may have been skewed for similar reasons. It's no secret that Clint fell way out of favour with a lot of people, due to him seeking legal counsel and subsequently refusing a polygraph, or any other further cooperation. So now we hear a lot about them not being such good friends... they squabbled a bit... they weren't that close etc... Meanwhile, it sounds like in reality Brian and Clint had a colourful history of partying together, there's pictures of them looking like they're best buds having a ball, Clint was one of the most recent people to post on Brian's Myspace page (having a dig at him, frat bro style), Brian pushed himself to go out and party with Clint that night even though he was tired. They were friends, and there could have been a whole lot of loyalty in that friendship. Everything that gets pointed out as evidence to the contrary... absence of phone calls for weeks, the odd falling out, one not getting along with the other's girlfriend, figuring out that they're not suited to actually be roommates etc... all sounds consistent with the ups and downs of friendships during college life to me.

When it comes to Clint and Brian, it's hard to know what is relevant, what is true, and what has been blown out of proportion.

Honestly I believe every relationship Brian had was blown out of proportion and a narrative was given that painted everyone favorably except Clint. Brian’s relationship with his Mom is the one relationship I believe was reported correctly. His relationship with Randy was incredibly strained. Brian and Derek didn’t have much of a relationship due to different lifestyles until their Mom passed away. Sadly they only became closer for 3 weeks before Brian disappeared. I believe that Brian loved Alexis, but a proposal was not in the works. This came from Alexis’ dad. I’ve also been told that Alexis was so much like Renee that many believed that is what drew Brian to Alexis. Even though he loved Alexis, Brian was struggling with his sexuality. The PI has a statement from a friend of Brian’s about a bisexual encounter that the 2 had. I also have messages from an individual close to the case stating Brian and Clint decided not to be roommates due to an advance that one made towards the other. I think that Brian and Clint’s relationship became very strained, but it wasn’t always that way. Brian being off and on communicating with people via phone doesn’t bother me. It’s consistent and seemed to be normal for Brian based on what I see on his phone records. Not to mention Brian traveled more than we even knew in 2005 and had only been back from his travels a few months
Before he went missing. With his travels, his Mom’s illness, and medical school I can see why he chose not to communicate with people regularly.

 

[Looking4Brian]

When is the next episode of the podcast coming out ?

No more than 2 weeks. John and I start phone conferences today with a producer from a major network. As soon as we get this all taken care of we will be finishing the episode.

 

[Looking4Brian]

@Looking4Brian

I would be great if you could clear some older things out. It concerns partly older episodes as well

- Has it been established why the duo Clint & Brian wanted to go back to UTS the second time?

- Roughly, when you think of Brian's 45 minutes in UTS before he vanished, how would you picture that? (ie , covering most of the time chatting with Amber & Brightan...)?

- Brightan said it was well-known amongst regular bar-guests to be able to exit through a door from the UTS to have a smoke/chat/phonecall, was that the emergency exit she was refering to? In the episode where she is interviewed I picked up a sense she might have been hinting at the construction "portal"..

- Brightan mentioned she was pretty drunk at the UTS, and so was Amber? Or Amber wasn't? They still planned to leave with their vehicle parked in the garage despite this and go to Ambers boyfriend's house?
​

She also mentioned that they talked about Brian accompany them to the garage, but he later never did. (Was it to make sure they arrived there safe and sound, did he have anything else on his mind?)..

- Have you heard time estimates from Hurst when the girls were seen leaving by the escalators? I mean Brightan said 1.55 which we know isn't right. At nearly 1.56 they are on the footage and then one of them visited the restroom after so it must have been later.​

All in all Brightan and Amber were the last persons to conversate with Brian, he stood there with them and then *poof*. It's basically the starting point of hypothesizing vs knowledge. If he didn't re-enter the bar at that point he must have left through the construction door, but why so? (Rhetoric)

I know they have been cleared and all that, I am not suggesting they have anything to do with his disappearance, more that his last known actions evolved around them.

When I received Brian’s cell phone records we began going through the numbers and putting a name with it in 2006. We were able to identify every number. Of course none of the people had the same number so we began finding them on social media. Brian did not talk on his phone a lot so it was odd to me how many people he called that night. The people he was communicating with were a group of medical student friends that Brian was trying to meet up with that night. He went back to the Ugly Tuna Saloona because that is where the group was celebrating their medical school accomplishments.

When I think of Brian’s 45 minutes at UTS it confuses me more. Lol. I know he hung out with the group because 2 of the individuals told me that, but the majority of his time was with Brightan. However, Brightan doesn’t remember the group and the group doesn’t remember anyone else being with Brian. Meredith reported that Clint and Brian argued at UTS but Brightan, Amber (who spent most of the time speaking to Clint), and the group of medical students do not recall this. To me it sounds like Brian did a good job of mingling for none of them to remember each other. Brightan didn’t even know until Brian went missing, that Meredith was there with Brian and Clint.

Let’s me check with Brightan on the door she was referring to. I believe she is speaking about the fire exit inside the bar because John has spoke to me about this too. When it would get hot the bar would prop open the door and people would step outside to smoke or whatever. The door was open on the night Brian went missing, but the entire bar staff said a guard was posted at the entrance all night to keep people from going out there.

Yes Amber and Brightan have both told me they were very drunk. They did leave in Amber’s car that was parked on the first floor (same as Meredith’s car) of the parking garage. The 2 then went to Amber’s boyfriends house and spent the night.

Brian did agree to walk them to their car which Brightan was excited about after all of the flirting and Brian kissing her neck. At 1:55 they walk off camera and Brightan goes to the restroom and Brian and Amber stay under the camera (leaning on the wall) and wait for her. Brightan told me this took no more than 3-5 minutes and she came back out. Clint and Meredith were on the escalator leaving at 2:00, and Amber and Brightan left no more than a minute before C&M. Brightan does not know why Brian didn’t walk them to Amber’s car. This is why I said earlier his 45 minutes at UTS and the statements and timelines given confuse me. Brian had to be standing in front of the UTS between 1:58-1:59, the girls leave at 1:59, and C&M at 2:00. This tells me either C&M didn’t look very hard for Brian, or Brian saw them coming and ditched them by going through the construction door. The door to the construction area and the way for the band to leave was part of the wall Brian and Amber we’re leaning on.

 

[Old Mozez]

When I received Brian’s cell phone records we began going through the numbers and putting a name with it in 2006. We were able to identify every number. Of course none of the people had the same number so we began finding them on social media. Brian did not talk on his phone a lot so it was odd to me how many people he called that night. The people he was communicating with were a group of medical student friends that Brian was trying to meet up with that night. He went back to the Ugly Tuna Saloona because that is where the group was celebrating their medical school accomplishments.

When I think of Brian’s 45 minutes at UTS it confuses me more. Lol. I know he hung out with the group because 2 of the individuals told me that, but the majority of his time was with Brightan. However, Brightan doesn’t remember the group and the group doesn’t remember anyone else being with Brian. Meredith reported that Clint and Brian argued at UTS but Brightan, Amber (who spent most of the time speaking to Clint), and the group of medical students do not recall this. To me it sounds like Brian did a good job of mingling for none of them to remember each other. Brightan didn’t even know until Brian went missing, that Meredith was there with Brian and Clint.

Let’s me check with Brightan on the door she was referring to. I believe she is speaking about the fire exit inside the bar because John has spoke to me about this too. When it would get hot the bar would prop open the door and people would step outside to smoke or whatever. The door was open on the night Brian went missing, but the entire bar staff said a guard was posted at the entrance all night to keep people from going out there.

Yes Amber and Brightan have both told me they were very drunk. They did leave in Amber’s car that was parked on the first floor (same as Meredith’s car) of the parking garage. The 2 then went to Amber’s boyfriends house and spent the night.

Brian did agree to walk them to their car which Brightan was excited about after all of the flirting and Brian kissing her neck. At 1:55 they walk off camera and Brightan goes to the restroom and Brian and Amber stay under the camera (leaning on the wall) and wait for her. Brightan told me this took no more than 3-5 minutes and she came back out. Clint and Meredith were on the escalator leaving at 2:00, and Amber and Brightan left no more than a minute before C&M. Brightan does not know why Brian didn’t walk them to Amber’s car. This is why I said earlier his 45 minutes at UTS and the statements and timelines given confuse me. Brian had to be standing in front of the UTS between 1:58-1:59, the girls leave at 1:59, and C&M at 2:00. This tells me either C&M didn’t look very hard for Brian, or Brian saw them coming and ditched them by going through the construction door. The door to the construction area and the way for the band to leave was part of the wall Brian and Amber we’re leaning on.

Thank you.

 

[Old Mozez]

Actually both Clint and Meredith’s statement to CPD state that Brian came back into the bar then told them that he was going to talk to the band.

Are you saying that this statement was made to Clint & Meredith after Brightan & Amber left ? In other words, in the timespan of a minute, a minute and a half, Brian re-entered the bar and said this to them? And the minute later they had searched for Brian in the bar, restroom and were already on the escalators leaving ?