Deceased/Not Found OH - Carrie Culberson, 22, Blanchester, 28 Aug 1996 - #1 *V. Doan guilty*

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Culberson case takes grisly turn

By Michael Rutledge, Post staff reporter


The wall of silence around what happened to Clarissa Ann ''Carrie'' Culberson's body is slowly crumbling, say prosecutors who on Wednesday filed documents which revealed new details about they believe happened to the 22-year-old Blanchester woman in the early morning hours of Aug. 29, 1996.

''There's some people in the public who know the truth,'' Clinton County Assistant Prosecutor Rick Moyer told The Post. ''And I think their conscience is beginning to wear on them.''

Those documents quote Tracey Baker, 33-year-old half-brother of Vincent Doan, who was convicted of his girlfriend's death despite the fact that neither her body nor her car have ever been found.

Baker, according to court documents obtained by Channel 9 (WCPO-TV), said:

Garbage bags were used to dispose of her body - ''one for the head, one for the arms, one for the legs.''

He ''enjoyed shooting'' Ms. Culberson's corpse.

He once told his ex-wife, Lori Baker, ''that if she wanted to know "...what it smelled like and what it felt like ...' he would cut off her sister's head ... and send it to her.''

Red paint on the sideboards of his semi-truck was from Ms. Culberson's red 1989 Honda CRX. Moyer said the sideboards were missing from the truck when Florence, Ky., police picked him up in September, a year after her death.

Baker also called a grand jury witness and attempted to influence their testimony, say the documents.

With Doan sentenced in November to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the 22-year-old Blanchester woman's murder, the perception is fading that Doan's family, known as the ''Baker family,'' runs Blanchester, he said.

Recent indictments of four people have helped tear down the Baker family's powerful image, said Moyer, adding that people other than Baker's ex-wife, Lori Baker, provided details that were in the court documents.

''I believe there are peripheral people around the Baker family who have a working knowledge of what happened,'' Moyer said.

Several of those close to Doan now face charges in connection with the investigation into Ms. Culberson's disappearance.

Baker faces two charges of obstructing justice and single charges of tampering with evidence and gross abuse of a corpse. His trial is scheduled for late January, but likely will be postponed because he recently changed lawyers.

Doan's father, Lawrence Baker, faces two charges of obstructing justice and a charge of tampering with evidence. His trial is scheduled for early April.

Blanchester's Police Chief Richard Payton faces three felony charges of obstructing justice and a misdemeanor charge of dereliction of duty in the murder's cover-up. He has a February trial date.

A girlfriend of Doan's, Shannon Hodson, 20, of Wilmington, was indicted this month on two counts of obstructing justice. She was dating Tracey Baker at the time of his arrest.

Baker's new attorney, Scott Frederick of Hamilton, downplayed the significance of the information in the documents. ''They still have, basically, a missing person, and they're trying to do everything to resolve this,'' said Frederick. ''I just think if these statements were true, there'd be some physical evidence.''

''If Lori Baker was as involved as (Wednesday's filing) says she was, she should have been charged,'' Frederick added. ''This is her story,'' Frederick said.

Prosecutors filed the documents in response to a defense request for details about the case, outlining many details already discussed during Doan's trial.

Doan appeared at Tracey Baker's Blanchester residence at approximately 3:15 a.m. the morning of the murder without a shirt, shoes or socks and covered with blood. Doan entered through the rear door and went into the bedroom where his brother was.

When Tracey Baker exited the bedroom, fully clothed, he asked for garbage bags.

After showering, Doan change into clothes he kept at his half-brother's residence. When the two of them left the house, they were carrying garbage bags, and Baker had a handgun in the waist of his pants. Once outside, they had a brief conversation, and Baker said ''OK'' to Doan.

Within two hours, the two returned to the residence, and Doan again went into the shower, and Baker asked his ex-wife, who lived with him at the time, to wash the blood from his pants and shirt, which he was removing. He also wiped blood from his boot, which the Miami Valley Regional Crime Lab determined was human blood that was too degraded for further testing.

When Lori Baker asked Tracey whether they had cut Ms. Culberson's body into pieces, she ''was told among other things to never make such a statement again,'' court records state.

Publication date: 12-24-97

http://www.cincypost.com/news/1997/baker122597.html
 
ok, now where can I see this so called statement that Tracy made. I would like to read the court transcripts to those remarks.(not just what the news said)
I would also like to know, if Lawrence wasnt convicted ,then what was he covering up? He was AQUITED on those charges.I dont believe any of this hog wash.The jurdicial system sucks no doubt.however. wasnt it you that was so pissed off at everyone ditchen Carrie and her mother.Then how in the same breath can you lower yourself to do the same thing to some one eles.(find carrie) you need to practise what you preach! And for anyone eles reading this.I feel for both families,BOTH! I am not here to belittle anyone.
Or to make this site a soap opera like some. I just would like to ask Questions/with getting answers.without getting my head ripped off because I do ask? Thank you! :banghead:
 
i am not that mrs evans and do not know who the heck she is :bang:
 
dobermom said:
ok mysteriew why in the world all these question asbout lawerance ???? they really have nothing to do with Carries dissaperance ok??? Lawarance is a good man and loves his children i have known him and his family my whole life .
EDITTED BY AMRA

yes we would all like to know where Carrie is but i beleive 2 innocent men r in jail right now ........... we dont even know if she is really dead or not . the eviedece just wasnt there to prove to me shes gone ...

I didn't mean to offend. Nor did I mean to single out Lawrence B. (is that how you spell his name?) As I freely admitted I don't know any of the people. I have heard some of the rumors and guesses, and that has only added to my curiosity. I was not from this area, but heard of the Bakers before Carrie disappeared Nor did I mean to imply that Lawrence B. did not love his children. One thing I have noticed is that Lawrence did stand by his son. That shows he does love him. But since you do know the families, maybe you can answer some of my questions. Tell me about the family. He had to have been aware that when he stood up with him, he opened himself up to curiosity also. I am sure you are also aware of the "rumors and guesses" Please don't get me wrong. I haven't fully made a decision about this case. I am aware that our justice system is not perfect and that innocent people have been convicted and later released when the real killer was found. I did not attend this trial, and so do not feel in a position to make a judgement myself. I am also aware that people have been presumed dead, who were later found alive.
The only thing I did question was, what was Vincent's family life like. I do know from experience that what a family life is like, can affect a child growing up, and what a parent thinks and feels is not always what the grown child thinks and feels. I also feel that events that happen in a child's life can affect him as an adult. But also am aware that what an adult child does, parents have very little control over. I am sorry that my post did not get this across. I am lousy at putting things in words. I guess what I am wanting is just some understanding. Another thing I wanted to get across in my post, is the nature of small towns. Many in this board did not grow up in small towns.
They are not aware of how the actions of a few can affect so many, and for so long. In a larger city, this case would have probably been forgotten soon after the trial. But in a small town, the ones involved see each other and hear of each other all the time. They shop together in the same stores, and know people in common. So they hear about each other all the time. Without knowing what happened to Carrie this case will not die until the last person who remembers it is dead. And even then they become a part of a town's legends. And from what I have heard , this has all the signs of becoming one of those legends, that will continue long after you and I are gone. The only way the talk about this case will end, is when Carrie or her body is found. I think then that after that, probably things will quiet down. When there is nothing left to guess about, then people will move on to something else.
Again, I apoligise for offending. And ask for more understanding.
 
mysteriew said:
the best way to get the history on this case is to visit
http://www.findcarrieculberson.com/carriesupdates.html
and http://www.geocities.com/freevincentdoan/

The first link has an especially good site, with a well organised database of news media articles written through the years, and also a database taken from court documents. I understand that a person from this site did the website. You also will find that it is udated soon after any info about the case is published in the media.

The second link is from supporters of Doan. I understand that that supporter may also be on this website. I wish they would publish on their site, Doan's
statements and evidence that they feel would prove his innocence.
i want to thank you for posting links for me...and i will read as soon as i can. did go to web sites for a general overview. i'm very caught up in lori hacking case, but have not forgotten this. thankyou again! linda
 
HI everyone!

First off just as a poster not as a mod my own POV...

And I think I said this about 10 pages back...
I don't see the rivalry or reason for it.

Here we have a missing presumed murdered women.. Presumed enough that the DA brought charges and 12 jurors felt those charges had enough founding evidence to convict.
12 Jurors... Not the vicitms mother... or the DA who only did a job in presenting what the police and investigators brought him.... 12 jurors...

For those that dispute Vincents guilt .... that does not mean that any member of Carrie's family is at fault for his prosecution. If you all believe Carrie to be alive.. then organize and search for her.. Pull your resources hire a private investigater...
For those who believe she is the victim of foul play but not at the hands of Vincent..... the same option is available..
No name calling online which hunt needed..... just.......in plain ....clear.....language lay out the foundation for the reasons and show the evidence that obliviates his guilt.
Seriously... the name calling and attacks upon freecarrie and members here does not in any way smoke screen evidence.
If you can prove it then do so..
Are you up to it??
Can you just lay out the evidence? Noone wants to see innocent men go to jail. To be angry at those who believe in the courts serves no purpose.
If he is innocent you will have many more ears if you can prove it without anger. The anger only clouds anything valid you may have to say.
Please do not percieve negative comments about Vincent or Tracy to be personal attacks...But in all fairness they have been convicted.. Not by Carrie's mother or findcarrie but 12 TWELVE people in your community.
So, of course much of what is said will be based upon that.


Now as a mod .... You can all come and dispute this case..
My personal POV having no bearing... But you join here and the are rules that are agreed upon.
Those rules are listed at the top of each forum..
If you do not know them, please read them... If you do not care then don't post...
Just keep it civil.
No attacks upon Carrie's family will be tolerated because in reality it does not matter if her mother was a raging *advertiser censored*.(example).. that has no bearing in the case against Vincent or Tracy. No evidence indicates her mother was responsible.
So attacks upon her are off topic... and therefore violate the TOS you agreed too upon requesting membership...
On the same token there is no evidence to show that findcarrie is somehow involved...
Keep it to topic... no attacks upon those who disagree and we will have no further problems.
Debate the evidence... hell debate the rumors... but DO NOT DEBATE ABOUT THE posters or how stupid you think they are.
I think that we can all agree upon one thing here..
2 families have lost loved ones...
For Carrie's family all they know is that 12 people found Vincent and Tracy guilty...based upon evidence the police found........Not her family..
They did not go to the DA and say "they did it, prosecute!!"
Does not work that way. Also any family would want the truly guilty in jail..
IF it can be proved that is not Vincent or Tracy then only a mutual purpose is served.
So the anger is mis-directed.
To tear them down only serves to tear them down it does not prove that Vincent or Tracy are innocent. The two issues have little to do with each other. Because Carrie being fiesty or her mother bar hopping doesn't indicate guilt or neglegence on their part.

As For Vincent and Tracy's families...
They have lost loved ones as well... and maybe its easier to blame a missing girl or her family. Your anger is misplaced..
Either they did as accused and prosecuted for and you should be angry at their choices..... or they are innocent and you should be angry at a system that permitted such an outrage. But if that is the case then you should do your damdest to achieve a just outcome.
Your energy and time is wasted name calling an fighting online.
It is wasted attacking a women with a missing daughter and those who offer her support.
WHy would anyone NOT support those with loved ones missing??
There exists no conflict here.
Only misplaced anger.
If Vincent and Tracy had something to do with Carrie's status then her family and the community at large are entitled to be angry with them.
If not then his supporters need to show cause.. and not be angry because your community found them guilty.
If your angry then place it towards those deserving.. A missing girl and her grieiving family are not it.
 
I just want to ask questions about this case.ok! Not to defame or put down know one.My Question is.If Tracy said those things(joking or not) about dismemberment.How come THEY(law) think she was pulverized.There is a big difference between the two.I have alot more questions,but later with them.
So could anyone answer that please.Thank you. :confused:
 
I believe that any question I attempt to answer you somehow tell me I'm lieing or I went into the computer and wrote it myself. Now the last question you asked me if I remember correctly was "has her mother considered the DoeNetWork". My responce to you, and please go back a few messages and read.. it states - YES we HAVE. They cannot take her information until after August 28th of this year. BECAUSE they dont take people who have not been missing for eight years or longer.

I'd like offer this tidbit of information for all those who question why Carrie was declared deceased and how could she be missing if she's dead. Well you can be two things at one time. Like I could be handicapped and overweight BOTh at the same time(for example). AND a person can be dead and still missing. She's missing because we havent found her body yet.

If anybody has a question for me, regardless of your side on this case. I answer questions, not insults. And I am good at insults probably more so than anybody else on this board, however I feel that is irrevelant and doesnt accomplish anything. :sick:
 
findcarrie said:
...If anybody has a question for me, regardless of your side on this case. I answer questions, not insults. ...
My question is: When I view your posts, the margins are much bigger than the rest of the posts. I can't figure out why. Did you change your margin setting? :confused: It makes your posts harder to read because I have to scroll back and forth...
 
nanandjim said:
My question is: When I view your posts, the margins are much bigger than the rest of the posts. I can't figure out why. Did you change your margin setting? :confused: It makes your posts harder to read because I have to scroll back and forth...

Nana:

I changed some settings. See if this helps
 
findcarrie said:
Nana:

I changed some settings. See if this helps
They are still bigger. Can you see when you scroll up and down on a page of posts that your margins are bigger? Is it just my screen??
 
Can the law get aerial photos and satelitte photos of messlers propertys at the time of Carries disappereance.And of the junk yard.?Messler has a pond behind his property on fay/blan rd.Its not his but can be acsessed from his. :doh:
 
Char...
I know there exists many issues with this case and posters that our posters are not privy too.
But the anomosity must be kept to a minimum..

If some other poster is really just playing a game..please let admin or a mod know... don't reply ...


Thanks Amra
 
If you have a problem with posters please let admin or a mod know do not address them directly...
Thanks so much.
Amra
 
sosorry said:
If you have a problem with posters please let admin or a mod know do not address them directly...
Sorry, but if someone has a problem with me, I would prefer that you discuss it with me, if at all possible. I am of the mindset that I don't want admin or mods involved unless absolutely necessary. They are very busy! This is just my preference! Thanks!!
 
If someone has a problem with me please let me know. I would like the opportunity to clarify anything I say, before I get tattled on.
 
sosorry said:
Can the law get aerial photos and satelitte photos of messlers propertys at the time of Carries disappereance.And of the junk yard.?Messler has a pond behind his property on fay/blan rd.Its not his but can be acsessed from his. :doh:

That would be impossible to do. There could be a hot spot airal (sp) view probably done at this time, which might could detect where a body or body parts could be buried. There obviously would be no way to turn back the clock onto that particular night to record anything. That would like asking me to set up the VCR and copy a television show that came on one time back in 1987. Not possible

The moderators on this board are fully aware of the problems that this thread has had. I pretty much know which ones are trouble. I do however try to answer questions, although most of the time, they are taken from here and added to or taken away on another book which I not mention at this time.
 
I am glad you all shared your POV on this..
But I ask that you take it up via PM or e-mail if things get personal.
To dispute problems you have with each other here on the threads..
Distracts from the thread topic..
And that does involve the mods or admin..
So if you all wish to hatch that aspect of things further its totally ok but start a new thread in the PL or take it to PM or e-mail..

Thanks!!
Amra
 
I know the police have new evidence, and new leads. I am starting to look everyday for info to show up. If it is this hard for me to wait I can imagine how hard it must must be for the ones involved. I know the police have said that they aren't going to release any more info. But I wish I knew what they were finding.
 
Baker says he joked about Carrie's body
By Dan Horn, Post staff reporter

WILMINGTON, Ohio - Tracey Baker admits he once talked openly about dismembering Carrie Culberson and stuffing her remains into garbage bags.

He even says he used to boast about loading the missing woman's car onto his truck so he could haul it away.

What people don't understand, he says, is that he was only kidding.

''It's a serious matter, I know, but some of the rumors was so outrageous it was almost comical,'' Baker testified Friday at his trial. ''We was just cuttin' up, joking around.''

Throughout his more than five hours on the witness stand, Baker complained that prosecutors took his off-hand comments seriously and used them to connect him to Ms. Culberson's disappearance.

He denied playing any part in a family conspiracy to cover up the crime and said he never helped his half-brother, Vincent Doan, dispose of Ms. Culberson's body.

Prosecutors say Doan, who is serving a life sentence for Ms. Culberson's murder, killed his 22-year-old girlfriend on Aug. 28, 1996. They say he then went to Baker's house hours later to wash off the blood and get help hiding the body.

Baker is on trial for obstructing justice, gross abuse of a corpse and tampering with evidence.

Since Ms. Culberson's body has never been found, Baker said the rumor mill has churned out a variety of ''crazy stories'' linking him and his family to the crime.

Those stories became so ridiculous in 1996, he said, that he and his girlfriend began to joke about them.

He said his girlfriend, Robin Eden, took his comments out of context earlier this week when she testified about them for the prosecution.

He said one such comment arose when Ms. Eden questioned him about some red paint on the trailer of his truck.

''Oh, is that red paint off of Carrie's car?'' she asked.

''I thought she was teasing, so I said, "Yeah, Yeah, just don't say that too loud out here.' ''

On another occasion, he said, she pointed to some empty garbage bags in his pick-up truck. ''We was kinda joking around about the extra trash bags, about how these are the trash bags we used to bury Carrie,'' Baker said.

He told jurors they need to understand that the comments were only intended to relieve tension at a time of extreme stress for the family.

He said he heard new rumors every day about how he and Doan supposedly got rid of Ms. Culberson's remains, including one that involved an uncle from Florida who took her to a swamp and fed her to alligators.

''I heard all kinds of stories,'' Baker said.

Under questioning from his attorney, Scott Frederick, Baker said his estranged wife, Lori Baker, was lying when she testified that Doan was cov ered in blood when he knocked on her back door around 3 a.m. on Aug. 29.

He also disputed her contention that he and Doan left her house a short time later with seven garbage bags and a gun.

In fact, Baker said, he never even saw his brother that night, let alone helped him get rid of a body.

''I'm not saying he didn't come over,'' Baker testified, ''I'm saying I don't know that he came over.''

With a book detailing his trucking records on his lap, Baker said he picked up a load of steel in Kentucky around 9:30 p.m. on Aug. 28 and got home around 11:30 p.m. He said he left the next morning at 7 a.m. to deliver the steel to Chicago.

He said his work schedule kept him out of town until the weekend, suggesting he was not home on the days prosecutors say he continued to participate in the cover-up.

While in jail for the past eight months, Baker said, he has lost his truck, his house and his business. He said prosecutors have offered him a lenient sentence if he would tell them where to find Ms. Culberson's body, but he told them he did nothing wrong.

''I don't know,'' he said. ''I don't know where that girl is.''

He denied that his silence is the result of a ''Baker code of honor.''

He said he loves his brother, but not enough to lie for him about murder.

''If he's got something to do with this, then he's left me out to dry,'' Baker said.

''That's pretty sad.''

Prosecutors will get their chance to question Baker during their cross-examination on Monday.

http://www.cincypost.com/news/1998/baker053098.html
 
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