Found Deceased OH - Harley Dilly, 14, walking to Port Clinton High School, 20 Dec 2019 #4

[Linda7NJ]

WOW! This is crazy! Crazy!
Portland Fire says on average they respond to one to two calls per year for people trapped in a chimney.

Is that Portland Oregon?

 

[Betty P]

Did they even need to consider the chimney before checking?

What exactly do you think warranted police to enter an unoccupied private home where all the windows and doors were double-locked secure and there was absolutely no signs of forced entry to the home? The owner stated nobody except the family had keys to the house. What reasonable expectation was there for the police to believe Harley had keys and entered the house, and Harley himself or his property could be inside?

There's been no confirmation exactly where the coat and glasses were found. I think they very well could have been located behind a wall register or hanging from a cap opening. Knowing that the chimney flue was not designed for an original fireplace, I've not convinced the items dropped directly to the floor.

There are enough cases where missing children, and sometimes adults, were found in nearby homes and buildings. Some of these were abandoned properties and others were simply vacant. I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure when a child is missing its standard procedure to canvass the neighborhood near the child's home or the location where they were last seen (as well as the child's home). It's also standard procedure to check vacant lots, abandoned homes and empty homes in the neighborhood,with the owner's permission if possible.

Though Harley's life probably wouldn't have been saved with an earlier search of the home by LE, it's possible future victims might be found alive . When a child goes missing it seems a no brainer to check empty homes on the street. Let's hope LE agencies learn from this and make it part of their routine checklist in the future. Why take a gamble on whether or not a child is there? Just check.

MOO

 

[scdiv]

I am still Gobsmacked by how many LEO personal,and other entities were on this. Not just Hickman, but The freaking FBI,among others.
Not a single one of them thought to check that house, inside and out. Not a single one thought in spite of there being no sign of breaking,and entering, that maybe there was. Not a single one has ever heard of a cat burglar, or the fact there have been many cases of just such a thing where there was Zero sign of a break in.Not a single one really listened to all the people saying check empty,unoccupied,rental,vacation, homes etc. I know he was likely dead by the time the search was on, but he could at least been found much sooner. Hopefully all LEO,and other agencies take note. Leave no stone unturned, question everything. Get permission from homeowners to check it out, or Search Warrant. Listen when people say. Check vacant,homes......... I'm sorry but Border Protection, and he was stuck in that Chimney a cross the street the whole time.
MOO

Irrelevant at this point, but say a vacant house had been left unlocked and someone let themselves in.... and then double bolted it all from the inside... wouldn't LE think it was all locked up and then no reason to check? how did they know a front or back or side door or window or whatever was left mistakenly unlocked for someone to get in... then bolt it up from the inside?

And I'll be honest, I had no idea that chimneys don't all go out to a fireplace. I would have never attempted to go down one, but Mary Poppins was my absolute favorite movie growing up and I remember all the kids going down the chimney, swish no problem at all. I might be worried I wouldn't fit, but it never would have crossed my mind that it doesn't go straight to the bottom. I didn't grow up in a house with a fireplace and I had no concept of that little flue angle thing until I looked at pictures yesterday.

 

[scdiv]

These chimney examples do both lead to a fireplace which the house Harley went did not, but that visual of a flue gave me more of an idea. Just nowhere to go. Tragic.

 

[simlyme]

From the owners son of the house where Harley was found,
Quote from article (He says it would be extremely difficult to enter the home through the chimney as police believe Harley tried to do)

Also he explains some about how the chimney was used.


‘Our family is heartbroken over this’: Owner of home where Harley Dilly’s body was found speaks out

 

[demetra]

Irrelevant at this point, but say a vacant house had been left unlocked and someone let themselves in.... and then double bolted it all from the inside... wouldn't LE think it was all locked up and then no reason to check? how did they know a front or back or side door or window or whatever was left mistakenly unlocked for someone to get in... then bolt it up from the inside?

And I'll be honest, I had no idea that chimneys don't all go out to a fireplace. I would have never attempted to go down one, but Mary Poppins was my absolute favorite movie growing up and I remember all the kids going down the chimney, swish no problem at all. I might be worried I wouldn't fit, but it never would have crossed my mind that it doesn't go straight to the bottom. I didn't grow up in a house with a fireplace and I had no concept of that little flue angle thing until I looked at pictures yesterday.

Yes Marry Poppins had me thinking you go down the chimney in a flash..As i said earlier i am 50 and had absolutely no ideal how a chimney worked i truly believed it was a long way down,very dark but you would come out in the house.I feel really dumb at this age not knowing that was impossible.I am going to have to stop thinking about it i am 5'3 and weigh 98 pounds and i went to the kitchen and pulled out my cake pan 9x13 and stood in the middle of it and tried to see how i could fit..its sad and hard to understand.moo

 

[katydid23]

Did Harley think every old house must have a fireplace? Had he never been in an older home without a fireplace? If he had planned this out, it seems like he would peer into the windows and see that this house had no fireplace on the first floor. So then he went down the chimney expecting to land in the furnace? Just more stuff that does not make much sense. MOO

14 yr olds are known for rash, impulsive actions. Poor choices abound.

He didn't look through the windows to see if there was a fireplace because it wasn't that well thought out. He saw the chimney, then probably assumed there was a fireplace. Why else would there be a chimney, he thought.

Being 14 he knew nothing about coal furnaces from the 1800's. Poor kid.

 

[JDough]

Does anyone know if the home had an alarm system? If so; perhaps the perimeter search (with k-9's), and seeing windows and doors secured was enough to believe Harley was not inside in the minds of investigators? Were they attempting to establish contact with the homeowner and this led to the delay of his discovery?

 

[Seattle1]

There are enough cases where missing children, and sometimes adults, were found in nearby homes and buildings. Some of these were abandoned properties and others were simply vacant. I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure when a child is missing its standard procedure to canvass the neighborhood near the child's home or the location where they were last seen (as well as the child's home). It's also standard procedure to check vacant lots, abandoned homes and empty homes in the neighborhood,with the owner's permission if possible.

Though Harley's life probably wouldn't have been saved with an earlier search of the home by LE, it's possible future victims might be found alive . When a child goes missing it seems a no brainer to check empty homes on the street. Let's hope LE agencies learn from this and make it part of their routine checklist in the future. Why take a gamble on whether or not a child is there? Just check.

MOO

I agree completely.

I'm just of the opinion that this was an unoccupied, secured, private home and not some empty, abandoned property with easy access for any random teen, runaway, etc. to enter, and believe police actions specific to this home were reasonable. If not for the chimney attempt, Harley would have had to break a window or kick in a door that police would have detected during their first-round searching the neighborhood and would have searched inside without delay. MOO

 

[Nancy19XX]

As baffled and heart broken by how this case turned out, I think it has brought a lot of light in a lot of different issues and taught us all a lesson or two... (From taking what teens say more seriously, thinking about the impossible things that teens do but thinking any better, being more involved, recognizing the signs of teens needing help). RIH Harley. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

dbm

 

[katydid23]

They didn't even try. Just looked around the outside of the house,decided because it didn't like anyone had broken in, to not check it out any further.

How many other properties did they have to check that day? I'd say hundreds.

It wasn't like they could spend many hours trying to locate the owners, get a seat of keys, or a warrant, and search this one house.

What reason would they have, at that point in the search for Harley? There was no indication that anyone had tried to enter the home. Why would these officers think that they should abandon their search of the rest of the neighbourhood and try to get into this house at that time?

They had hundreds of properties to check out. For all they knew, he was being held captive in another house right down the street.

Blaming the first responders doesn't make any sense to me, in this case. It wasn't their fault he was looking for a warm place to hang out in. JMO

 

[simlyme]

Harley was also a friendly kid that appeared anxious to spend time outside of his residence. I would not be surprised to learn he'd visited the neighbor and been inside where he may have seen a large opening in the wall (former a wall register) that he believed he could reach from the chimney. At 14, if our kids saw renovation activity across the street, they'd run right over asking how they might help to earn some cash to supplement their allowance-- which always falls short!

My post 984, please read article, the owners did not know the Dillys.

 

[JaneEyre]

Harley was also a friendly kid that appeared anxious to spend time outside of his residence. I would not be surprised to learn he'd visited the neighbor and been inside where he may have seen a large opening in the wall (former a wall register) that he believed he could reach from the chimney. At 14, if our kids saw renovation activity across the street, they'd run right over asking how they might help to earn some cash to supplement their allowance-- which always falls short!

The owner said he did not know the family.

I just wish we could teach all kids that Mary Poppins and the Santa thing with chimneys is as much of a fantasy as going in a wardrobe and coming out the other side in Narnia. It can’t be done.

 

[katydid23]

Did they even need to consider the chimney before checking? If they'd just gone inside the house they would have found his coat and glasses and realised where he was. (Werent they found on the floor in plain sight?)

But how could they 'just go inside?' It was a fully locked up home, with the owners out of state.

At the beginning of the search, each 1st Responder felt the urgency and had a lot of locations to clear. They walk up to this one and it was locked top tight, not abandoned, and no signs that anyone had tried to break in.

With all of the many properties they still needed to cleAr, what reason would these 2 officers have to stop searching anywhere else and spends hours trying to get inside this home?

 

[kaen]

Again, I think the first responders will do an in-depth post-mortem on what went right and wrong. No one here (at WS) even conjectured that he would be/could be in a chimney. Even if we saw the abandoned/unoccupied home, I don't think any of us would have said, "Hey, how about that chimney, could he be there?" Now that he has been found and LE will assess their response, I bet that there will be some new protocols in training for missing kids/teens and canvassing the neighborhood. Unfortunately, tragedies inform how the next situation is handled-- Columbine (faster response into buildings), Sandy Hook (locked access doors at all times), mining accidents (safety zones below ground, alternate accesses, better rapid response, safety drills), major storms (mandatory evacuations, better storm tracking), wildfire approaches for first responders (planned burns, safety blankets, computerized modeling of winds and shifts). Harley's tragedy has certainly been an eye opener and now we are left to learn from his actions in order to save someone else in the future.

 

[Seattle1]

‘Our family is heartbroken over this’: Owner of home where Harley Dilly’s body was found speaks out

Jan 15, 2020

"I was quite confident that there was no way anybody got in that house or they would have been able to tell because it was pretty secure," he said.

Jim says he and his parents were stunned when Port Clinton police called Monday, asking for keys to get inside and information about the home's layout and renovation details.

He says it would be extremely difficult to enter the home through the chimney as police believe Harley tried to do.

"There was no openings in that chimney other than, like eight-inch diameter openings in different places throughout. You know, on the first floor and the second floor for a stovepipe to go into it," said Jim.

He also says the home does not have a fireplace.

"The chimney hasn't been used in years, so there used to be a gas stove that went into it and there's been nothing since," Jim said.

Jim says his family's future plans for the house are uncertain.

^^bbm

ETA: If not for evidence that Harley also dropped his coat down the chimney, I probably would have thought he dropped his glasses while looking down the chute and thought he could retrieve them.

 

[Sonic7273]

Also remember that the search was focused on him being a runaway, by choice. If anything, the thought process was that he was holed up somewhere and were looking for him alive. Not that he is trapped and in a life threatening situation. That thinking took us on a wild goose chase all over the place. I believe most people were shocked when this was the end result as most people were just not thinking in this direction (chimney of all places). IMO

 

[Seattle1]

Again, I think the first responders will do an in-depth post-mortem on what went right and wrong. No one here (at WS) even conjectured that he would be/could be in a chimney. Even if we saw the abandoned/unoccupied home, I don't think any of us would have said, "Hey, how about that chimney, could he be there?" Now that he has been found and LE will assess their response, I bet that there will be some new protocols in training for missing kids/teens and canvassing the neighborhood. Unfortunately, tragedies inform how the next situation is handled-- Columbine (faster response into buildings), Sandy Hook (locked access doors at all times), mining accidents (safety zones below ground, alternate accesses, better rapid response, safety drills), major storms (mandatory evacuations, better storm tracking), wildfire approaches for first responders (planned burns, safety blankets, computerized modeling of winds and shifts). Harley's tragedy has certainly been an eye opener and now we are left to learn from his actions in order to save someone else in the future.

I'm also inclined to think it might be a protocol for investigators to search differently or more areas during Ohio's drier, summer season than during mid December. Even professionals climbing roofs and chimneys in December pose a safety risk. MOO

 

[Deleted member 110058]

Again, I think the first responders will do an in-depth post-mortem on what went right and wrong. No one here (at WS) even conjectured that he would be/could be in a chimney. Even if we saw the abandoned/unoccupied home, I don't think any of us would have said, "Hey, how about that chimney, could he be there?" Now that he has been found and LE will assess their response, I bet that there will be some new protocols in training for missing kids/teens and canvassing the neighborhood. Unfortunately, tragedies inform how the next situation is handled-- Columbine (faster response into buildings), Sandy Hook (locked access doors at all times), mining accidents (safety zones below ground, alternate accesses, better rapid response, safety drills), major storms (mandatory evacuations, better storm tracking), wildfire approaches for first responders (planned burns, safety blankets, computerized modeling of winds and shifts). Harley's tragedy has certainly been an eye opener and now we are left to learn from his actions in order to save someone else in the future.

No none of us would have thought about the chimney...
It would have been more likely that he could have climbed on the roof, entered through a window, shut the window behind him. The home would still have looked undisturbed. Which is why searching any vacant/abandoned property (especially one near his home in Winter) is a given. The fact that LE did not have this protocol in place is unnacceptable. Even worse, they expect the public to be OK with this.
Which they are not!