GUILTY OH - Johnny Clarke, 21, & Lisa Straub, 20, murdered, Springfield Twp, 31 Jan 2011

[belimom]

I'm not really following the train of thought that their murders were accidental?

The bags sealed on their heads and being bound would have prevented them escaping their predictment, and it seems very unusual that there were things placed on their bodies, like it was a message or something.

I agree. In a random 'burglary gone bad', it seems that it would have been just 'shoot/stab the people', get the loot, and go.

Binding, tying up, bags over faces -- with nothing major missing? Doesn't fit the picture of robbery by a stranger. MOO

 

[CuriousTW]

I've been reading posts on this forum as well as several others and yet to hear anyone mentioning this thought so I figured I would throw it out there and get your comments. By the way, I am brand new to these forums but very excited to have found them.

Could it be possible that as many have said, that the murders weren't planned and that the robbery was so the perps used duct tape to restrain them while searching the house etc and while they were searching the house, Johnny and Lisa were yelling and screaming and making all types of noises so (especially if the police and others showed up) in order to keep them quiet they found plstic bags which seem to be a common household item (walmart bags etc) to put over their heads so no one could hear them not intending to kill them but to shut them up. One thing leads to another and they die. Granted, if the bags were taped up around their necks, it speaks more to intentionally trying to suffocate but if they expected to just shut them up or make them pass out only while searching and for whatever reason it took longer, then maybe the murders weren't intentional.

Just a thought.

 

[girlinblue]

Could it be possible that as many have said, that the murders weren't planned and that the robbery was so the perps used duct tape to restrain them while searching the house etc and while they were searching the house, Johnny and Lisa were yelling and screaming and making all types of noises so (especially if the police and others showed up) in order to keep them quiet they found plstic bags which seem to be a common household item (walmart bags etc) to put over their heads so no one could hear them not intending to kill them but to shut them up.

I haven't seen anything indicating the kind of bag (garbage, grocery?), but I think if they were from inside the house, someone would've noticed by now and it would've come out. With the mess that was made, I'm sure they didn't think to put the box of bags back neatly or make sure that cupboard was closed. That said, does anyone remember if it has been specifically mentioned either way about bags being in the bag that was brought in the house containing the duct tape?

 

[Sonya610]

and while they were searching the house, Johnny and Lisa were yelling and screaming and making all types of noises so (especially if the police and others showed up) in order to keep them quiet they found plstic bags

No offense but even the defense won't try that excuse. No one puts a plastic bag over someones head to "keep them quiet". They had duct tape! Tape their mouths, shove a sock or whatever in for extra volume control, and tell them not to make another peep or else...

 

[Stolly]

Thanks realist1972 - I have been trying to check the tv news affiliate websites and have been surprised the Police / FBI have not had any type of official announcement with a Q&A session.

You would think a case that is a week old and has been broadcast nationally deserves some type of update, even if it is just to review facts, info about a reward, layout the timeline of events, and set the record straight.

Is there any video of the police announcement or did they just disseminate it via a press release?

It might be a good sign that they are playing their cards close to their vest, hopefully they have boatloads of evidence, people of interest in mind, and do not need any help from the public.

If they are at a place where they have no specific suspect or much evidence as the detective stated the morning of the murder, then I think they will be releasing more information.

You would think it would be worth it to at least release information about the plastic bags (color / any markings or words), unless they know they are from the victim's kitchen.

You might have a store clerk say "I remember this man that came in and he bought a pack of gum and I thought it was unusual that he asked for a few extra bags, and the ones I use match the description on the news."

Or if they are from a specific store, you might have someone come forward and say "I was at a Wal-mart self checkout on Sunday and this guy next to me walked up and pulled a handful of bags off the machine and walked away, I was wondering about that."

If authorities believe it is related to drugs and have determined what drugs, a news conference with a reward and a description of the drugs could turn up the killers. Offer 10,000 dollars and you could have some buyer / dealer roll over on the killers because they are trying to move the drugs.

Also a quick comment about the bags and the murder. John and Lisa were probably murdered long before anyone showed up to the house to investigate. If the murders were there, an additional vehicle would have been visible next to the house. I doubt they parked down the street and walked in plain sight all the way up the drive way. I also doubt they had a car pick them up. The concerned friend, law enforcement, or parents would have reported this unusual vehicle and the investigation would be in a much better position.

A comment on the bags - I'm not sure if the bags would muffle anything. Even if it was a robbery, the killers decided they didn't get what they wanted. They thought out the murders and killed the couple.

It is a really sad case. I can't help but think that Lisa, while knowing that certain things were going on, was completely innocent.

These are just some thoughts and my humble opinion on the topic.

 

[Sonya610]

You would think it would be worth it to at least release information about the plastic bags (color / any markings or words), unless they know they are from the victim's kitchen.

<modsnip>. The FBI does not get involved in local crimes, it has to impact the federal interest or at least cross state lines. Trash bag purchase....well I purchased trash bags just last week...

40% of murders go unsolved. If the police cannot identify a suspect within 2 weeks chances are they won't ever identify one, the suspect is usually someone the victim knows (barring dna or ballistics, if there is not a direct connection it goes cold in 2 weeks).

This is not the Lindenberg baby...this was a drug related killing. Unfortunate yes, but I bet the police have a lot more gritty details and they aren't thinking "if I don't solve this one I can't sleep at night". More likely they are thinking "one less on the streets".

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Welcome to Websleuths caw 414 and pspence! We're glad you joined us here!

 

[belimom]

I've been reading posts on this forum as well as several others and yet to hear anyone mentioning this thought so I figured I would throw it out there and get your comments. By the way, I am brand new to these forums but very excited to have found them.

Could it be possible that as many have said, that the murders weren't planned and that the robbery was so the perps used duct tape to restrain them while searching the house etc and while they were searching the house, Johnny and Lisa were yelling and screaming and making all types of noises so (especially if the police and others showed up) in order to keep them quiet they found plstic bags which seem to be a common household item (walmart bags etc) to put over their heads so no one could hear them not intending to kill them but to shut them up. One thing leads to another and they die. Granted, if the bags were taped up around their necks, it speaks more to intentionally trying to suffocate but if they expected to just shut them up or make them pass out only while searching and for whatever reason it took longer, then maybe the murders weren't intentional.

Just a thought.

Welcome, CuriousTW!!! :seeya:

And good first post. I wondered that at first as well - that maybe the bags were put over their heads and taped really well so they couldn't get them off by rubbing their head against a table leg, piece of furniture, etc., and then the perps left them like that.

However, after reading more, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm thinking it was purposeful: because I think they knew the perps.

IMHO, the bags were placed over the heads b/c the perps didn't want to look at them, but they were killed because they were known to the victims.

JMHO

Again, welcome.

 

[Stolly]

<modsnip>. The FBI does not get involved in local crimes, it has to impact the federal interest or at least cross state lines. Trash bag purchase....well I purchased trash bags just last week...

40% of murders go unsolved. If the police cannot identify a suspect within 2 weeks chances are they won't ever identify one, the suspect is usually someone the victim knows (barring dna or ballistics, if there is not a direct connection it goes cold in 2 weeks).

This is not the Lindenberg baby...this was a drug related killing. Unfortunate yes, but I bet the police have a lot more gritty details and they aren't thinking "if I don't solve this one I can't sleep at night". More likely they are thinking "one less on the streets".

Some of that CSI comment might be true, but I don't have cable or satellite or even watch much TV (I'll catch programs at gym but that is about it, mostly news). I'll take it as a compliment I guess? I like to read as much as I can about crimes and forensics. History tends to repeat itself.

But the information listed above is factual. I would like to think that I might as well post a logical and constructive thought process about the topic, since my mind is always going.

The police stated that the FBI offered assistance and they immediately accepted. The FBI commonly offers assistance. Many times this is given in the form of use of the FBI Laboratory. The FBI only has the authority to intervene in an investigation when it meets the criteria you listed above.

The FBI was on scene the morning of the murder to assist in collecting evidence and also walked the Straubs around the house when they returned from their cruise.

They may be thinking "one less on the streets" but you can't carry that argument over to discuss the girlfriend, a full time nursing student and full time server.

I think some people overlook the importance of minute details in a case. People can polish an alibi, and lie all they want. Something as small and insignificant as a piece of duct tape, brand of zip tie, or, yes, even a unique plastic bag can link someone to a crime and focus the investigation on them.

I was just trying to supply a unique viewpoint about the situation in my previous post.

 

[CuriousTW]

As I mentioned the bag theory was just a thought. Unfortunately, there are so many missing pieces of this case that needs to be filled in however, IMO there may be more people involved one way or another than anyone imagines. It seems that Johnny has a messed up past for years.{mod snip} He may have known people that could have done somthing like this since he has a record indicating that robbery is in his past. IMO, a key like what was found could easily be to a safe that could have been filled with anything worth money. People sometimes just give away information maybe not even meaning too, like owners of a house being gone, people having a safe, so and so has drugs etc...

mod snip}

 

[Sonya610]

{mod snip}

But yeah killing the girlfriend was the work of...well let us keep in mind this girlfriend met the Johnny right after he was released from prison. She surely had to know what he was and he probably talked a lot....she knew the risks. Scale on the kitchen counter??? She didn't know about that? Regardless she was young and naieve....wrong place wrong time. I do feel bad for her.

 

[LuLa]

I think LE is keeping a huge lid on most of this investigation.

 

[Benny08]

I think LE is keeping a huge lid on most of this investigation.

I'm starting to think LE isn't going to find an answer. If it goes much longer w/out an arrest we may never get one imo.

 

[cluciano63]

I think that unless LE is talking about this as a random home invasion and warning the neighbors, that they have an idea of who/why this crime was committed. At least I like to think so...

 

[LuLa]

I'm starting to think LE isn't going to find an answer. If it goes much longer w/out an arrest we may never get one imo.

I think there will be an arrest soon. We shall see.

 

[Wondergirl]

Are there any businesses in the immediate vicinity of Longacre Lane?

I noticed a fountain on the Google Maps, but, wondered if there are businesses that may have surveillance video. LE has probably already canvassed the neighbourhood for private surveillance video.

 

[Wondergirl]

In the videos of the Straub home, the camera focuses on the window with the long curtains as if that is the window that looks upon where the bodies were recovered.

There had been reference for the kitchen being directly off the garage, and that is how the home was usually entered.

Does anyone know if that window with the long curtains is actually the one where the kitchen/dining room was? It seems very unlikely if that is the window the cousin and father peered in, that so much detail of the scene could be viewed, kwim?

 

[belimom]

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110205/NEWS02/110209564

Investigators said Friday they believe the slaying of a young couple inside a Springfield Township home this week was "a robbery gone bad."

Cathy Stooksbury, a detective with the Lucas County Sheriff's Office, would not comment on what, if anything, was stolen from the home but said it appeared someone had gone through things in the house, searching for something.

bbm

Those two statements seem contradictory to me. In a random robbery, something of substantial value would be taken: computers, iPod, stereo components, silver, jewelry. And they're in/out in 5 minutes.

This sounds more more person: bags over the head, nothing of substantial value missing. Two $20 bills? Would someone really risk life in prison for murder over $40?

IMHO:
1) there is something hidden in that house that they couldn't find,
2) there was something hidden that they DID find but either the parents didn't know or don't want to say (drugs), OR
3) it was a personal vendetta

It doesn't appear like a random "robbery gone bad". MOO

 

[SmoothOperator]

In the videos of the Straub home, the camera focuses on the window with the long curtains as if that is the window that looks upon where the bodies were recovered.

There had been reference for the kitchen being directly off the garage, and that is how the home was usually entered.

Does anyone know if that window with the long curtains is actually the one where the kitchen/dining room was? It seems very unlikely if that is the window the cousin and father peered in, that so much detail of the scene could be viewed, kwim?

Hi wondergirl! Would u post me a link to where you saw the curtains that u are speaking about above. I have not been able to spend as much time as I'd like to getting to sleuth arounD on this specific case. But would love to see what u r talking about.
TIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[belimom]

From the same article above:

Detective Stooksbury said FBI agents were assisting the sheriff's office with the investigation.

"They offered their help, and we gladly accepted," she said.

"They're offering assistance with cell phone records and things like that, which they can get much more quickly than we can."

Now this gives me hope: the FBI is assisting with the cell phone records. I think that's where the answers lie as to whether or not this is something involving Johnny/Lisa's friends.