GUILTY OH - Johnny Clarke, 21, & Lisa Straub, 20, murdered, Springfield Twp, 31 Jan 2011

[angela]

For further reference as to what the 911 call has now been corrected to, according to Johnny's mother, here is what the Blade recently published:

I may need to rethink some things. I totally missed the "bro" thing. I agree he could have said it to a stranger but now I am a wee bit less suspicious of Tiffany. It seems if she was involved, she never would have repeated the bro thing. She wouldn't have wanted to make it look like Johnny and Lisa knew their attackers.
Am I even making sense?

 

[mushyb]

http://www.independentcollegian.com/mobile/reflections-on-double-homicide-1.2467667

 

[Hopeful One]

http://www.independentcollegian.com/mobile/reflections-on-double-homicide-1.2467667

In that article is the first I've heard that they were tied to chairs. Anyone else see that elsewhere?

Also, they repeat the falsehood that JC and LS were found in the basement. They were found upstairs near the kitchen. If they can't get simple facts straight, how can we trust them with the big stuff???

 

[mushyb]

http://www.aolnews.com/discuss/2011...gs-of-johnny-clarke-a#gcpDiscussPageUrlAnchor


Older article but has lots of comments

 

[future criminologist]

In that article is the first I've heard that they were tied to chairs. Anyone else see that elsewhere?

Not sure I would trust the Independent Collegian on this. Not that they would be an inaccurate source, but it appears a lot of the information in the article is coming from LS's friend at school. She could have picked it up from rumors. I'm inclined not to trust this information unless LE releases it.

If it is true, however, it looks like an execution-style killing to me, and makes me immediately think of one of the worst horror movie scenes I've seen, when the couple gets stabbed to death in "The Strangers", and the minute or so leading up to the stabbing when the couple knows they are going to die and there's no way they can fight back anymore...ugh, the horror of this case just gets worse and worse.

 

[future criminologist]

http://www.aolnews.com/discuss/2011...gs-of-johnny-clarke-a#gcpDiscussPageUrlAnchor


Older article but has lots of comments

I got through a few pages of comments but could not go on since none of the commenters had anything intelligent or enlightening to say. I'd be more interested in comments from locals who knew the victims, not trolls using it as an excuse to blame Obama or the "illegals". Did you find any comments of value and if so can you repost them here?

 

[future criminologist]

Thanks, FC.

Not only did I notice the "Bro", but, when I originally listened to the 911 call by MV on HLN, I wondered at the time why there wasn't any swearing (if it had been omitted by JCs mother), because, if the questions were asked by Johnny at a time of apprehension, both the tone and emphasis on the words would have been just as important as the words themselves.

eg. What the [expletive] are YOU doing, bro?

eg. What the [expletive] are YOU DOING, bro?

eg. What the [expletive] are you DOING, bro?

I agree, tone and emphasis could be very important. I still think "bro" is indicative of someone he was at least acquainted with, but I'm trying to think of the first reaction my guy friends would have to a strange intruder.

Don't you guys think though that the intruders would have had a response or barked out a command or something initially to get JC and LS compliant? I can't see them showing up silently unless they were trying to copycat "The Strangers". It's odd that Tiffany only reported hearing what JC said and not what the intruders said. I'll be interested to get the results of her polygraph if they ever do one.

 

[future criminologist]

I also think it is odd that if a complete stranger was in the home, that Johnny wouldn't have said "get out of here" and why didn't Lisa and/or Johnny scream?

Exactly what I was thinking - the story seems incomplete. I find it hard to believe that a group of intruders just stood silently at the door and did not bark out orders or point a gun at their heads or anything. There has to be more that Tiffany heard that she's not saying.

 

[3angelsrmine]

I agree, tone and emphasis could be very important. I still think "bro" is indicative of someone he was at least acquainted with, but I'm trying to think of the first reaction my guy friends would have to a strange intruder.

Don't you guys think though that the intruders would have had a response or barked out a command or something initially to get JC and LS compliant? I can't see them showing up silently unless they were trying to copycat "The Strangers". It's odd that Tiffany only reported hearing what JC said and not what the intruders said. I'll be interested to get the results of her polygraph if they ever do one.

BBM and FWIW Apparently T is pregnant and they cannot do a polygraph on her. I believe this is b/c local LE did one on another pregnant lady who lost her baby and now she is suing saying the polygraph put her baby in distress.

 

[girlinblue]

Catching up on posts... I have to say, and I don't mean this in any sort of "attacking" way, but I don't know if I put much weight into what Maytee says at this point. I cannot begin to imagine what she's going through and I understand that under stress, in the moment, things get communicated wrong, but she seems so fixated (rightfully or wrongfully) on TW and the idea of a set up... She's changing things she originally said, and I don't know...it just worries me that she's going to do more harm than good.

 

[seekinjustice]

In that article is the first I've heard that they were tied to chairs. Anyone else see that elsewhere?

Also, they repeat the falsehood that JC and LS were found in the basement. They were found upstairs near the kitchen. If they can't get simple facts straight, how can we trust them with the big stuff???

I read that myself today. I am unsure as to why it was said about chairs and that they were found in the basement. I know the the girl who wrote that was at the crime scene and grew up with Lisa. She spoke with some of the local news stations.

 

[seekinjustice]

I read that myself today. I am unsure as to why it was said about chairs and that they were found in the basement. I know the the girl who wrote that was at the crime scene and grew up with Lisa. She spoke with some of the local news stations.

Ok, I finally got to go back to that site. It was not written by the friend, but from how I am reading it....its from the friends account that morning. I apologize for my error.

Happy V-Day All!

 

[Kimster]

Anthony1 has been verified as a friend of Lisa's family. FYI.

 

[Hopeful One]

Catching up on posts... I have to say, and I don't mean this in any sort of "attacking" way, but I don't know if I put much weight into what Maytee says at this point. I cannot begin to imagine what she's going through and I understand that under stress, in the moment, things get communicated wrong, but she seems so fixated (rightfully or wrongfully) on TW and the idea of a set up... She's changing things she originally said, and I don't know...it just worries me that she's going to do more harm than good.

Personally, I try to keep in mind when listening to close family members or friends that they are going through SO much stress and may not be thinking or remembering things clearly. Especially with MVC, she was wrapped up right in the middle of it with getting calls from T's friend, making the 911 calls, going to LS's home, etc. etc.

 

[Wondergirl]

I agree, tone and emphasis could be very important. I still think "bro" is indicative of someone he was at least acquainted with, but I'm trying to think of the first reaction my guy friends would have to a strange intruder.

Don't you guys think though that the intruders would have had a response or barked out a command or something initially to get JC and LS compliant? I can't see them showing up silently unless they were trying to copycat "The Strangers". It's odd that Tiffany only reported hearing what JC said and not what the intruders said. I'll be interested to get the results of her polygraph if they ever do one.

BBM: That is a very good point.

 

[CanManEh]

I really do not put much time in trying to figure out anything on the comment he made saying BRO twice to me at his age and ecspecially if was in to drugs and a gang thats just how they all talk to me BRO just = MAN . If you really need to see that people do say hey bro to even strangers just watch dog the bounty hunter mind you he has a bit different english style and its BRAW but its the same meaning and he calls everyone he comes across braw so all im sayin is i dont think the words of BRO really is anything to read in to.

 

[CanManEh]

I forgot one thing i thought i heard on nancy grace that the reason for not giving the poly was because a big part of taking the poly and its analysis is on your body movements and having a fetus kicking and moving would throw the charts way off and never beable to get an accurate reading anyways..

 

[believe09]

I forgot one thing i thought i heard on nancy grace that the reason for not giving the poly was because a big part of taking the poly and its analysis is on your body movements and having a fetus kicking and moving would throw the charts way off and never beable to get an accurate reading anyways..

If you Google search pregnancy and polygraphs, there are a variety of answers most of them having to do with the stress and well being of the subject. Subjecting yourself to stress can be hazardous to some pregnant women. I am on the fence about the idea that it is the movement of the fetus that could throw it off-they do baselines with innocuous questions before they get into the reason for the polygraph, so I would think that they would be able to work around things like that.

 

[Sonya610]

If you Google search pregnancy and polygraphs, there are a variety of answers most of them having to do with the stress and well being of the subject. Subjecting yourself to stress can be hazardous to some pregnant women. I am on the fence about the idea that it is the movement of the fetus that could throw it off-they do baselines with innocuous questions before they get into the reason for the polygraph, so I would think that they would be able to work around things like that.

Polygraph's can be affected by so many things, they probably don't like to give polygraphs to pregnant women becuase the pregnancy will be blamed for any bad results.

They are hardly foolproof, anyone that is not a fool can learn to not fail a test. The testers can scew the results by upsetting the recipients BEFORE the test. The recipients can mess up the results fairly easily by using tricks to scew the "control question" results (it is very hard for anyone but a cold blooded psychopath to tell lies without some signs, but it fairly easy to cause changes in breathing, blood pressure, and such during the control questions. If they can't get good low "control" readings they can't show noticeable diferences when the person was likely lying). That leads to the test being "inconclusive", which is certainly better than failing!

 

[future criminologist]

I forgot one thing i thought i heard on nancy grace that the reason for not giving the poly was because a big part of taking the poly and its analysis is on your body movements and having a fetus kicking and moving would throw the charts way off and never beable to get an accurate reading anyways..

good point! I hadn't thought of that.