OH - Kathryn, 54, & James Stockdale, 21, shot to death, Stark Co., 15 June 2017

[gitana1]

I think the manual is what they supplied to the wife swap show because I notice on the left side towards the bottom the manual from the other family from the wife swap episode

Yes. You can tell by the questions too.

There's a very well known large family in the state I live in, Arkansas. This family has their own reality tv show, profess to be ultra-Christian, and home schooled all their children. However, you never know what goes on behind anyone's closed door.

A few years ago it came out that their oldest son had molested his own sister who was about his same at at the time (both early teens) AND four other girls with most of the perverted invasions upon these girls taking place while the girls were asleep. The boy's family and their reputation kept the son from ever facing any charges at the time and now the statute of limitations has run and he can never be charged. The local police and the family's church got involved and the whole thing got swept under the rug.

I have to say for me personally I've always thought something was off. I've lived in Arkansas my whole life, with the exception of about 6 months when I lived in Florida. I lived in Northwest Arkansas for nearly 4 years - the same area of the state this family lives in. Around that time they only had about 9 or 10 kids, but the family was well known in this part of the state (the largest area outside of the greater Little Rock area). They were very astute when it came to publicity for their family even back then - around 8 - 9 years before they ever got the tv show. When the father ran for some local government position around 2000-2001, they very publicly used their children in billboards and ads to get votes.

Like I said, something never seemed right. The image they over sold, even before reality tv came into their lives, was too perfect. I'm sure they're very nice people, but whenever someone goes overboard trying to convince me of anything I immediately become skeptical about why they're trying so hard to convince me. The public perception or image of this family in Ohio bares an uncanny resemblance to the family here in Arkansas.

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2015/05/2...minor-girls-sisters-19-kids-and-counting-tlc/


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He actually molested four of his younger sisters and one non-relative. But none of the sisters was that close in age to him. They were all prepubescent. The oldest victim was about three years younger. (It's all evident by the police report and other info).

The family covered it up (they had Josh talk to a state trooper months after the last incident, who gave him a "talking to". The state trooper was a friend. The trooper friend is currently doing 56 years for child *advertiser censored*, by the way), but it was reported three and a half years after the last incident, by Oprah staffers who were doing a show on the family but them got an anonymous tip from someone who got a letter hidden in a book from the Duggar home which had a written account of everything that had happened.

So the police and CPS investigated. The statue of limitations I believe had run. CPS did mandate some sort of intervention I believe. I think therapy. They had had none prior to that (because they don't believe in psychology - just prayer).

You have a great gut instinct. My significant other told me two weeks before the allegations came to light- "You watch. It might be ten years or so but something is going to come out about molestation or something going on in that family." Two weeks! I was flabbergasted by the news soclose in time to that prediction!

 

[Satchie]

Back on topic. Where is the father?

There are two other sons who have families and live elsewhere, I'd guess he was with one of them.

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[MsMarple]

Wow, I remember the episode of Wife Swap (2008) they were on. Jacob was about 14 or 15 and James would have been 11 or 12. As I recall, the Stockdale kids were made to look like hayseeds but that wasn't a fair depiction IMO. The kids were all musically talented and during the years after the show was filmed they did in fact travel around Ohio and nearby states, performing bluegrass in a number of venues. They also participated in music contests, winning quite a few.

My point is that even though they had an off-the-rails religious mother the kids had some exposure to the outside world. Did that have an impact on Jacob? Who knows. What we know for sure is that the parents were controlling, they were struggling financially to run the farm - in the 2008 manual Kathy noted that dad Tim had to take work outside of the farm in order to earn extra money to support the family. The two older boys had left the farm and the band and moved to other cities.

Jacob is 25 years old, certainly old enough to pack his stuff and move out of the family home like his brothers did. It's hard to believe he was so controlled by his mother that he wasn't able to just leave if he was unhappy with the family dynamics. What could have happened that was so bad that Jacob thought murder was the only option? Another mystery is why he shot his brother. That doesn't fit well with a scenario of hating mom and needing to be free of her.

If Jacob doesn't recover from his head wound we may never know what drove him to murder two family members. I have a deep dislike (to put it mildly, lol) for religious zealots but right now we don't know if that played into his actions. My condolences to the rest of his family.

 

[Jennifer17]

Wow, I remember the episode of Wife Swap (2008) they were on. Jacob was about 14 or 15 and James would have been 11 or 12. As I recall, the Stockdale kids were made to look like hayseeds but that wasn't a fair depiction IMO. The kids were all musically talented and during the years after the show was filmed they did in fact travel around Ohio and nearby states, performing bluegrass in a number of venues. They also participated in music contests, winning quite a few.

My point is that even though they had an off-the-rails religious mother the kids had some exposure to the outside world. Did that have an impact on Jacob? Who knows. What we know for sure is that the parents were controlling, they were struggling financially to run the farm - in the 2008 manual Kathy noted that dad Tim had to take work outside of the farm in order to earn extra money to support the family. The two older boys had left the farm and the band and moved to other cities.

Jacob is 25 years old, certainly old enough to pack his stuff and move out of the family home like his brothers did. It's hard to believe he was so controlled by his mother that he wasn't able to just leave if he was unhappy with the family dynamics. What could have happened that was so bad that Jacob thought murder was the only option? Another mystery is why he shot his brother. That doesn't fit well with a scenario of hating mom and needing to be free of her.

If Jacob doesn't recover from his head wound we may never know what drove him to murder two family members. I have a deep dislike (to put it mildly, lol) for religious zealots but right now we don't know if that played into his actions. My condolences to the rest of his family.

I kind of get the feeling that mum would have tightened her control as the family were becoming adults. Maybe the two older boys were not quite so indoctrinated and had an earlier life that wasn't so constricted. I am not sure how old the older boys were when they moved out of the city onto the farm.

I wonder what was going to happen when the boy's wives didn't rear her grandchildren like she reared her sons? I can see her trying to get custody and raise them herself.

 

[MsMarple]

I kind of get the feeling that mum would have tightened her control as the family were becoming adults. Maybe the two older boys were not quite so indoctrinated and had an earlier life that wasn't so constricted. I am not sure how old the older boys were when they moved out of the city onto the farm.

I wonder what was going to happen when the boy's wives didn't rear her grandchildren like she reared her sons? I can see her trying to get custody and raise them herself.

Good point - I could see the mom getting more and more desperate to retain a place as family matriarch. Plus, losing two hardy farmhands may have caused additional stress on the finances - often a family-run farm depends on the children staying nearby to help out. The older boys chose to live different lives elsewhere. Mom may have stepped up trying to hang onto Jacob and James.

Also, it appears that Jacob had become the family's star and as far as I could find was the one remaining son who continued to pursue a career in music. James was in college working on a business degree and according to msm planned to work on the business side of the family music.

The family bought the farm in 1999, so when the boys were 10, 5, 3 and 1.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d.com/introduction/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[Spellbound]

Such a talented musical family, and they look so happy when playing together. it just struck me .... is there no contact with extended family? Like a potluck with the grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins .... were they so isolated they did not even have something like that? or do they have no other relatives besides mom, dad, and brothers (and those wives)? The more I think about this family, the more horrible I feel.


Montage collection of the family playing in April 2016, from http://www.ohio.org/events/the-8th-annual-stockdale-family-band-bluegrass-and-gospel-show

The Stockdale Family Band was born out of a family homestead 10 years ago, where father and sons spent kitchen and farm chore time together singing their favorite songs and honing their harmonies. Ten years later the band has earned first place in 4 regional band contests and 2nd in both the national "Single Mic Championship" and "Youth in Bluegrass" band contests. The Stockdale men are especially suited for stage performance, as their affection for people and enthusiasm for traditional acoustic music is infectious to audiences. A Stockdale Family Band show entertains with music, but also with lively farm tales and comedy, too. It keeps the audience engaged when they sing around a single microphone that requires an elaborate "bluegrass ballet". Watching that ballet is one of the rich visual rewards reminiscent of early performances of Bill Monroe, Stanley Brothers, and Flatt and Scruggs using a single microphone. Bluegrass vocal harmonies often work best when all the singers can look each other in the eye and catch facial movements. Using a single microphone really helps their interaction and creates a unique performance
[video=youtu;QEmqBw1X9Jw]http://youtu.be/QEmqBw1X9Jw[/video]

ETA ... the longer I watched this montage, the more I noticed that Jacob seems the least happy. he often has a rather somber look to his face. Makes me wonder if he was forced into music, but had other desires. At least that is what I observed, and I could be mistaken.

 

[Jovi Girl]

I have a different view on some of this.
To be on wifeswap, I'm sure one had to come across as extreme in one way or another. Could the strict rules have been just a ruse and the boys, in reality, were not as controlled as the show indicated ? Also, it WAS 10 years ago, people change. I'm sure someone would have stepped in to counsel the parents if life continues as shown on TV.

 

[human]

Such a talented musical family, and they look so happy when playing together. it just struck me .... is there no contact with extended family? Like a potluck with the grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins .... were they so isolated they did not even have something like that? or do they have no other relatives besides mom, dad, and brothers (and those wives)? The more I think about this family, the more horrible I feel.


Montage collection of the family playing in April 2016, from http://www.ohio.org/events/the-8th-annual-stockdale-family-band-bluegrass-and-gospel-show

The Stockdale Family Band was born out of a family homestead 10 years ago, where father and sons spent kitchen and farm chore time together singing their favorite songs and honing their harmonies. Ten years later the band has earned first place in 4 regional band contests and 2nd in both the national "Single Mic Championship" and "Youth in Bluegrass" band contests. The Stockdale men are especially suited for stage performance, as their affection for people and enthusiasm for traditional acoustic music is infectious to audiences. A Stockdale Family Band show entertains with music, but also with lively farm tales and comedy, too. It keeps the audience engaged when they sing around a single microphone that requires an elaborate "bluegrass ballet". Watching that ballet is one of the rich visual rewards reminiscent of early performances of Bill Monroe, Stanley Brothers, and Flatt and Scruggs using a single microphone. Bluegrass vocal harmonies often work best when all the singers can look each other in the eye and catch facial movements. Using a single microphone really helps their interaction and creates a unique performance
[video=youtu;QEmqBw1X9Jw]http://youtu.be/QEmqBw1X9Jw[/video]

ETA ... the longer I watched this montage, the more I noticed that Jacob seems the least happy. he often has a rather somber look to his face. Makes me wonder if he was forced into music, but had other desires. At least that is what I observed, and I could be mistaken.

There is no joy. When I watch other bands, you can see they are having fun. They just go through the motions.

 

[ADoyle90815]

I don't know if this was posted yet, but the mother of the other family who lived with them has spoken out about this.
http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/19/wife-swap-family-murder-other-mother/

One thing she did say about Jacob after the rules were changed:

When I switched the rules and I was going to let them have fun, have the television and video games and experience life a little bit, he ran outside crying. And when I went out after him, I asked him what was wrong, and he said that his mom and dad tell him that basically he would ‘burn in hell.

 

[bluesneakers]

There is no joy. When I watch other bands, you can see they are having fun. They just go through the motions.

It does seem like they're acting sometimes, but I think they're going after a Hee Haw effect.

They're a lot better than I expected.

 

[Satchie]

. Snipped for space

ETA ... the longer I watched this montage, the more I noticed that Jacob seems the least happy. he often has a rather somber look to his face. Makes me wonder if he was forced into music, but had other desires. At least that is what I observed, and I could be mistaken.

He might well be a moodier, more sensitive, more serious personality. His younger brother was quite obviously the family clown, so there'd be a noticeable difference between them.

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[strawberry]

I don't know if this was posted yet, but the mother of the other family who lived with them has spoken out about this.
http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/19/wife-swap-family-murder-other-mother/

One thing she did say about Jacob after the rules were changed:

[emoji35][emoji35]


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[Tillicum]

Good point - I could see the mom getting more and more desperate to retain a place as family matriarch. Plus, losing two hardy farmhands may have caused additional stress on the finances - often a family-run farm depends on the children staying nearby to help out. The older boys chose to live different lives elsewhere. Mom may have stepped up trying to hang onto Jacob and James.

Also, it appears that Jacob had become the family's star and as far as I could find was the one remaining son who continued to pursue a career in music. James was in college working on a business degree and according to msm planned to work on the business side of the family music.

The family bought the farm in 1999, so when the boys were 10, 5, 3 and 1.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d.com/introduction/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

BBM I can't help but wonder if this could've caused a problem with mom, the manager.

 

[strawberry]

BBM I can't help but wonder if this could've caused a problem with mom, the manager.

Thanks to this election cycle I've learned a lot about evangelicals. The most fundamental ones discourage higher education unless at a Christian college so they don't get warped by "liberal" professors


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[gitana1]

I have an 18 year old (19 in 2 months) daughter and she has spent a lot of time with him. He is closer with her than he's ever been with me. As I explained in another post he is a completely different man with the grandchildren. Until recently, he was a much more patient and understanding person than I ever knew him to be when I was growing up and even in my early adult years. However, he's nearly 73 and he is showing signs of dementia or some other mood change due to old age. All the adults in my family have had to confront him in very hostile situations where he just snaps at people for no reason. Most recently he ruined the Mother's Day family get together for my grandmother, mother, and me when he turned on me for no reason, which put me in a situation where I had to tell him exactly where to go, which then put an end to our holiday gathering.


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I'm sorry you had to go through such horror.

You're a much more forgiving and trusting person than I. I would not allow such a man anywhere near my kids. Or me. I think it would be too much to overcome

 

[Satchie]

It does seem like they're acting sometimes, but I think they're going after a Hee Haw effect.

They're a lot better than I expected.

Jacob's fiddle playing seems really good, and you can't cover up a flaw in playing like that in front of a mic, the entire performance has to be perfect. You can't fake that kind of musicianship, or force it out if someone.

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[policyoftruth501]

I'm sorry you had to go through such horror.

You're a much more forgiving and trusting person than I. I would not allow such a man anywhere near my kids. Or me. I think it would be too much to overcome

It's very difficult to understand these family situations unless you've personally experienced it. For most of my young life I thought everyone got punished the same way my brother and I got punished. By the time I was in high school I was standing up to my dad and have done so ever since. I can forgive or let it go, but I've never forgotten.

Plus, after my brother and I had grown up and left our parent's home my dad changed drastically. He was much more laid back and patient and overall a much better person. He can be very dependable when you need help for any reason and has always been that way, even when my brother and I were kids. Every time I've had spine surgery over the past couple years my dad has been the one person I could count on for help and never doubt I'll get that help. There's a lot of things like that making it difficult to categorize a person as bad because they are guilty of doing something horrible when you know that's not all there is to that person - even when what they did can be unforgivable. Like I said, I can forgive but I'll never forget.


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[Tillicum]

It does seem like they're acting sometimes, but I think they're going after a Hee Haw effect.

They're a lot better than I expected.

Okay I will tell you about bluegrass playing since both my late father and husband are some of the best. When playing an instrument, it's very common to make expressions with the mouth or eyes without realizing it. I've known many who attempt to keep a straight face while playing rather than make what appear to be awkward faces. I've always thought it was funny to compare their somber faces to the fast foot stomping.

 

[gitana1]

It's very difficult to understand these family situations unless you've personally experienced it. For most of my young life I thought everyone got punished the same way my brother and I got punished. By the time I was in high school I was standing up to my dad and have done so ever since. I can forgive or let it go, but I've never forgotten.

Plus, after my brother and I had grown up and left our parent's home my dad changed drastically. He was much more laid back and patient and overall a much better person. He can be very dependable when you need help for any reason and has always been that way, even when my brother and I were kids. Every time I've had spine surgery over the past couple years my dad has been the one person I could count on for help and never doubt I'll get that help. There's a lot of things like that making it difficult to categorize a person as bad because they are guilty of doing something horrible when you know that's not all there is to that person - even when what they did can be unforgivable. Like I said, I can forgive but I'll never forget.


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Yeah. Things are never black and white. People are typically not black and white either.

 

[gitana1]

I have a different view on some of this.
To be on wifeswap, I'm sure one had to come across as extreme in one way or another. Could the strict rules have been just a ruse and the boys, in reality, were not as controlled as the show indicated ? Also, it WAS 10 years ago, people change. I'm sure someone would have stepped in to counsel the parents if life continues as shown on TV.

We see so many cases of extreme abuse and neglect covered on Websleuths that no one steps in to stop until it's too late. I'm absolutely not sure anyone would've stepped ok by now.

Especially as they surrounded themselves with extemely religious people like them who believe in isolating and controlling kids and greatly fear government intrusion into child rearing. Also, while most of us cringe in disgust at the manual and view it as abusive, social services doesn't. The law doesn't. Because that was and has been very public with not one sneeze by any authority.