VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[rsd1200]

No, uk doesn't celebrate Thanksgiving. I hope you all that do celebrate have had a wonderful day.

Oh yes, fraud! How can Billy be facing that charge I wonder. I do think we will have a cart full of information ahead of us.

I see it as more of a celebration of harvest time, good crops and spending time with family. Time to reflect on those who are no longer with us. It's not a religious holiday IMO. It's mostly boiled down to a wait for good sale prices on the internet at this point. We have a family dinner some years and some years we don't. Back to topic; I see that everything that has been testified to, as being the God's Honest, has been testified to, by two admitted liars, and a confessed murderer, who initially confessed to his attorneys that he murdered all eight. HE says G4 wore the 11s. Yet there were three men there but only one killed all three residents? Isn't that risky if you have two assistants? One goes to each room.

This was JW's show. I believe nothing he says and nothing his mother says. JW: I checked the front door, I walked in, I went to HMR and DR rooms, I did all this shooting back and forth between the two rooms, I then walked over to lil CR2's room, and I saw he was sleeping, I shot him a time or two, he made a noise and I panicked and shot some more (he always remembers fine details). I collected shell casings there, then DRs, then propped up HMR for the baby. AC: Why did you do move her for the baby? (as if this was somehow compassionate) JW: It may seem weird but in case it was a while before they were found, I wanted K to be able to nurse... I searched for other shell casings, I thought I had them all, I think I locked the door on the way out. I, I, and I, right out the door.

He went straight to HR's room, passed up CR2's at the door, just paused in his size 11's, long enough to leave a mark. JW was able to shoot her from the doorway, she wasn't sleeping she was preparing to nurse the baby and DR was on her phone. G4 may be guilty but, I did not hear him put his father nor his brother there. Buy the shoes a size bigger, Mom. Bigger for him and for her.

Edit: I'm sorry, alto, this was meant for another post. I think it @RAISINISBACK b/c of her heritage and the shoe talk. But I didn't figure y'all celebrated the day seein' as how it all came about.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

There seems to be a variety of facts for the same subject in this case. Take your choice I guess.
GWIV knew nothing about it, but says he conspired to commit the crimes but changed his mind and didn’t do anything. He knew nothing about it but went along to protect JW. He went to bed at 10:00 pm and 12:30 am the same night. No one could leave without him knowing it but they did. The kids watched cartoons in his room with no TV. To name a few.
Just my opinions…

Thats been just about the way this trial has went. He said, she said, he said. The door was locked, unlocked, climbed through a window. picked the locked door, broke a knife with the tip still on it in the door, Shot though the door and hit CR's arm, shot though the wall and hit Cr's arm. Have I missed anything?

Brain overload.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think you're misunderstanding what "proof" is. There is no "proof" by your definition for any Wagner to have committed murder. They have a receipt for 2 pairs of Walmart shoes in amongst the Wagner possessions (that exactly match 2 separate prints in 2 separate locations), they have bullet casings from the Wagner property (that were fired by the murder weapon).

The only way we know any details from that night are because of Jake and Angela's testimony. The only way we know George's personality and family dynamics is from other's testimony, wiretaps and texts.

The jury had to put all that together and decide if George is lying to save himself or if everyone else is lying.

In order for George to have no knowledge before during or after the murders, Jake and Angela would have to lie about George's involvement. What would the reason be? They secretly hated him? If they couldn't be out taking care of Sophie and Bulvine they didn't want anyone to be? They figured no one would believe they kept it from George so might as well include him?

The thing that always stuck out in my mind is, if three men were going, why didn't Angie buy three pairs of shoes?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Don't forget that Jake and Angie confessed. I would say that is the ultimate in proof. Admitting you did it.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Source: Angela Canepa;
they went back to Chris seniors again and got into the vehicle to Chris
senior's vehicle and they went to dana's
there they entered that residence jake will tell you that both
George and billy entered the residence billy with the 40
George with the sks they didn't know again they thought maybe Chris would have a friend over
they thought maybe Corey Holdren would be there so they needed to make sure that nothing went awry
and so George was spaced and jake will show you
exactly where in that scene that he was planted the interesting thing is that he
indicated that he wore a size 10 and a half that night and that George wore the size 11 that night
um and you will see that that size 11 that I told you that was in scene 3 at dana's place is almost exactly where he
says that George was stationed to make sure that little Chris didn't come out of his room with a
weapon while he was off killing the women in the trailer
um he will tell you that he went into a hallway and again he'll we will show you
this with crime scene photos etc but he basically positioned himself so
that he could see both Hannah and Dana he could tell that Dana was on her phone
because it was kind of lighting up her face
Canepa's Opening Statements

that he could see both Hannah and Dana he could tell that Dana was on her phone
because it was kind of lighting up her face

Through a closed door. lol I think he also said Hannah's door was closed.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

No problem. I get mixed up, too…

Too many Chris's and George's and Angela's in this case.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I must have missed the testimony where it was stated who had what size shoe, I know GW, BW and JW gave a foot impression for LE, AW was not asked as far as I can recall, so I do not know what size shoe they all wore

I never heard it mentioned what size they all wore either.

th

 

[sunshineray]

Most cowboy boots have leather soles with some tread. The ones around here anyway. Unless they are very worn down, which a lot are. The exception is bullriders and bronc riders wear slick soled boots when riding in order to kick out of the rigging so as to not be tangled in the rigging when coming off the bull or bronc. Same reason they use rosin on their rigging not to get their hand tangled in the rigging.

JMO

Authentic cowboy boots had no tread for the very reasons you mentioned having to do with bull riders. Boots for riding need to be able to slide easily in the stirrups The built up heels and using your knees offer the gripping needed.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I see it as more of a celebration of harvest time, good crops and spending time with family. Time to reflect on those who are no longer with us. It's not a religious holiday IMO. It's mostly boiled down to a wait for good sale prices on the internet at this point. We have a family dinner some years and some years we don't. Back to topic; I see that everything that has been testified to, as being the God's Honest, has been testified to, by two admitted liars, and a confessed murderer, who initially confessed to his attorneys that he murdered all eight. HE says G4 wore the 11s. Yet there were three men there but only one killed all three residents? Isn't that risky if you have two assistants? One goes to each room.

This was JW's show. I believe nothing he says and nothing his mother says. JW: I checked the front door, I walked in, I went to HMR and DR rooms, I did all this shooting back and forth between the two rooms, I then walked over to lil CR2's room, and I saw he was sleeping, I shot him a time or two, he made a noise and I panicked and shot some more (he always remembers fine details). I collected shell casings there, then DRs, then propped up HMR for the baby. AC: Why did you do move her for the baby? (as if this was somehow compassionate) JW: It may seem weird but in case it was a while before they were found, I wanted K to be able to nurse... I searched for other shell casings, I thought I had them all, I think I locked the door on the way out. I, I, and I, right out the door.

He went straight to HR's room, passed up CR2's at the door, just paused in his size 11's, long enough to leave a mark. JW was able to shoot her from the doorway, she wasn't sleeping she was preparing to nurse the baby and DR was on her phone. G4 may be guilty but, I did not hear him put his father nor his brother there. Buy the shoes a size bigger, Mom. Bigger for him and for her.

Edit: I'm sorry, alto, this was meant for another post. I think it @RAISINISBACK b/c of her heritage and the shoe talk. But I didn't figure y'all celebrated the day seein' as how it all came about.

I think it was Jake's show the whole way too. I have always said that. I think his first statement was correct. He killed all 8. His GF, his in-laws, his show.

So many times on here we puzzled over why George would go along and risk his son to get Jake custody of his daughter. Didn't make sense then and doesn't make sense now.

I think it b/c of her heritage and the shoe talk. But I didn't figure y'all celebrated the day seein' as how it all came about.
Yeah, but we have a ceremonial dance that is in the fall that has been passed down from our ancestors when the buffalo was plentiful and hunting was good.

JMO

 

[Skully67]

5:34:05 through 5:43:39 mention of MT transcript.
5:39:17 through 5:30 34 mention of MT transcript.

Canepa asked george if a copy of the transcript would refresh his memory but never followed through with giving him one. So I stand corrected. They apparently did have a transcript of the MT interview.

On the other hand, if George had been at the murder scenes and knew what time Chris and Gary were killed when he was in the MT interview I think he would not have said 12:30 am he would have said he went to bed at 9pm or something. If he said 12:30 am that put him awake when Jake left. If he was involved no way would he have named that time.

So I think by Canepa bringing that out she proved he was not at the crime scenes.

Of note : 1:34:45 through 1:35:16 George denied dating the custody document. He said he just signed his name to a blank document his mother had then left. He did not mention Jake being present.

Of note : 6:15:10 George said Angie threatened to take custody of BW away from him.
JMO

Possibly he said 12:30am to provide a cover for all of them, knowing GR and CRsr were shot about 11pm.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Authentic cowboy boots had no tread for the very reasons you mentioned having to do with bull riders. Boots for riding need to be able to slide easily in the stirrups The built up heels and using your knees offer the gripping needed.

Yeah, it depends on what kind you like. Most cowboys these days are all hat and no cattle. But the slick soled are for riding horses. The treaded ones are for 4 wheelers and tractors. 4 wheelers and gators are mostly used to move cattle these days but if it's icy or snow that tread comes in handy, because if you have on a pair of slick soled boots you will end up on your butt.

I think cowboy boots would have been very recognizable in the crime scene because of the heels. Then again most work boots have heels. So what WAS Billy wearing?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Possibly he said 12:30am to provide a cover for all of them, knowing GR and CRsr were shot about 11pm.

If he was actually on UHR he sure would not have named that 12:30am time. He would have known what time they were all killed and 12:30am would have put him in the thick of it. If he had been at the crime scenes and knew what time they were killed he would have told BCI in MT he went to bed at 9pm. He would have told BCI that's what time they all went to bed if he was covering for them. He was not there so he was clueless on what time any of them were killed.

That is a huge mistake for Canepa to bring out right before the jury goes into deliberations. because you know some of them might be thinking the same thing.

JMO

 

[Myland]

They never stated in MSM or testimony the sizes for anyone. Just that the pile of boots at Bernie B was size 12 and LE thought they were Billys.

JMO

Jmo who stated the size 12 was Billy? And they were Billy he could have been the size 11 in blood. Jmo

 

[Skully67]

If he was actually on UHR he sure would not have named that 12:30am time. He would have known what time they were all killed and 12:30am would have put him in the thick of it. If he had been at the crime scenes and knew what time they were killed he would have told BCI in MT he went to bed at 9pm. He would have told BCI that's what time they all went to bed if he was covering for them. He was not there so he was clueless on what time any of them were killed.

That is a huge mistake for Canepa to bring out right before the jury goes into deliberations. because you know some of them might be thinking the same thing.

JMO

I guess I don't see it that way. If I say we all watched a movie until 12:30, then went to bed, then we're all home until at least 12:30.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo who stated the size 12 was Billy? And they were Billy he could have been the size 11 in blood. Jmo

BCI said the pile of boots at Bernie B's was size 12 and the agent thought they were Billys. That is all I have ever seen anywhere on shoe size. My take is because those trailer loads were from Peterson rd it was more likely they were Jakes or George's.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

BCI said the pile of boots at Bernie B's was size 12 and the agent thought they were Billys. That is all I have ever seen anywhere on shoe size. My take is because those trailer loads were from Peterson rd it was more likely they were Jakes or George's.

JMO

Plus, "a pile" means alot and makes more sense the pile contained boots for 2 people. And Billy never even lived at Peterson Rd I'm pretty sure. I think he left Angela when they were living on Bethel Hill Rd. I think it was George who said Billy and Angela fought and Billy wanted to get away from her.

This is a big reason why I think Angela wanted her boys and grandkids to live with her, to support her financially.

It is hard if you lose financial support from your husband. Angela probably lost some financial support from her husband and Fred planned to sell the trailer and property she lived on, right out from under her.

So Angela was mad and burned it down, all according to George, using insurance money to buy the Peterson Rd house.

I get the strong impression that Fred did not give financial support to Angela but Billy had a trust fund from her and could live with her and work for her unlike Angela.

Thus, Angela was very dependent on her sons and grandkids living with her to, as I said, give her financial stability.

Reader's wife, Reader had said, has a good paying job and can support herself while he is away. Angela never had a normal career, lived alot on crime money and did sell animals. But she depended on getting help from her boys with taking care of the animals. I can picture her depending on her grandkids doing the same for her as they got older.

One reason I think Angela tried so hard to get rid of her son's wives is because it made it much more likely the wives would want to get their own homes and then not live with Angela anymore, thus Angela would get less money from them.

They would have their own mortgage or rent payments and gas and electric and cable and house insurance and groceries and other household payments to make, etc....Gets very expensive.

 

[sunshineray]

Yeah, it depends on what kind you like. Most cowboys these days are all hat and no cattle. But the slick soled are for riding horses. The treaded ones are for 4 wheelers and tractors. 4 wheelers and gators are mostly used to move cattle these days but if it's icy or snow that tread comes in handy, because if you have on a pair of slick soled boots you will end up on your butt.

I think cowboy boots would have been very recognizable in the crime scene because of the heels. Then again most work boots have heels. So what WAS Billy wearing?

JMO

Yes the heels are slimmer. BW seems like a straight up work boot kind of guy to me but possibly Doc Martens.

 

[ColMustard]

"Same reason they use rosin on their rigging not to get their hand tangled in the rigging."

Rosin is used to improve grip, not lessen it.
Rosin on your rope, rosin on the pitcher's hand, rosin on the baseball bat, rosin on fiddle bow, rosin on the soles of shoes.

 

[justtrish]

Authentic cowboy boots had no tread for the very reasons you mentioned having to do with bull riders. Boots for riding need to be able to slide easily in the stirrups The built up heels and using your knees offer the gripping needed.

Well I learned something new! It makes sense, I just never really thought about what tread looks like on various shoes except my hiking shoes, which need lots of gripping power. I never considered some shoes need as little gripping power as possible. HA!

 

[altojack]

@altojack do you have a link on that? TIA

No link but we did hear in Court that Billy and CRs went to Peterson and Billy drove the murder truck away.

JMO at that point CRs hadn't seen the truck before. In the evening he was expecting Billy so wouldn't be suspicious when he pulled up outside in that truck.