That's your story. You're a strong woman/person.
But Tabbi has her own story, and maybe she's not as strong as you. Accept her story with understanding and grace.
GUILTY OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #86
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But Tabbi has her own story, and maybe she's not as strong as you. Accept her story with understanding and grace.
He said the concerns are if the jury has the transcript of only 1 witnesses testimony then the concerns are
1. Jury will give over emphasis to that one witness because they have the transcript for that one and they are relying on only their memory for all the other witnesses then.
2. The other concern is the jury will focus on one part of that testimony and not the whole testimony and one of the reasons we have both sides question in a trial is because sometimes testimony will sound one way when asked by one side and sound another way when asked by the other side. So if you only read one side then sometimes it's taken out of context and the true weight of the testimony may not be assessed.
JMO, it was an escalation of these events. With all the drama and upset to the Wagner family & George over his fight with Tabitha, they overreacted when the drama repeated itself when Hanna left Peterson Rd and began fighting back. It was "Here we go again! We have to fight harder this time!"
Hanna and her family were much more formidable opponents than poor Tabitha and her mother. To make matters worse, Hanna was encouraging Tabitha to fight back, too.
KentuckyMama
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I thought it was an argument that got out if control between her and GW and AW. I don't remember cheating playing any part. She said she tried to take her son but Angela wouldn't hand him back to her. So yeah, she couldn't so she didn't. I definitely have missed things during the trial as I dont have time to watch regularly. If that's the case here, please disregard.
If he is deemed guilty of the Conspiracy (planning & cover up) and/or Aggravated Burglary (being at the scene of the crime of CRSr/Gary & Dana's home murders) then he is guilty of Aggravated Murder.
The prosecution has removed the Death Penalty specification from George's charges so he only faces long prison terms. Judge Deering rules on the sentence.
The evidence strongly points to him participating in the planning and cover up of the murders. It also points to him being there that night.
No one deserves a light sentence for helping plan, carry out and cover up the murders of 8 innocent people. Keep in mind, the charges are multiplied accordingly. If he's found guilty of Conspiracy, that charge is multiplied by 8. If he's found guilty of Aggravated Burglary, depending how the jury rules, that charge could be multiplied by 2 or 4.
It's not the same as killing one person. They killed 8 people.
ralyla
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Poor Tabi is a victim in this too. She was courageous to tell her story and face the judgment of the world. I hope she can heal from the trauma she endured both as a child and from the Wagners. I really wish people would stop speculating about her truthfulness or experiences.
Seattle1
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Ohio is one of the states where jurors are allowed to take notes and where it would be unusual for the court to allow the jurors the transcript from a witness's testimony -- let alone 700+ pages of testimony! It seems to me that the prosecutor made the typical argument here and not an argument tailored for the co-defendant turned state witness. In the end, it was the jury foreman that rescinded the request which IMO shows this request was most likely for the convenience of the jurors and not necessarily the content.
Seattle1
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Thank you @Betty P for your clear explanation of the instructions to the jurors pursuant to the Ohio Criminal Statutes.
And for all having difficulty accepting that an individual can be convicted of murder without pulling the trigger, then the issue is with the Ohio state legislators and NOT the evidence.
It's also undisputed that GW4 did nothing to warn the victims (or the authorities) of the horrific bloodshed they were soon to suffer. MOO
Cool Cats
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Quote:
"one small point that I wonder about, what if one or more jurors find GW not guilty of the murders, thus they would be saying we don't believe JW and AW, would the state still think they testified to their satisfaction if the jury conclude they are both liars, and what would it do then for BW trial if jurors are not buying what the state and AW and JW are selling"
Doesn't matter if some jurors do not believe Angela or Jake's testimony. Judge Deering made the ruling to remove the DP from George's Case and told the jury George could not get the DP. It is completely gone and not coming back for George. So if any jurors were worried about not wanting to send George to death row, they don't have that worry anymore.
LWOP is the worst he can get.
As for Billy, the DP is still on the table for him unless he takes a plea deal where he pleads guilty and then the DP is dropped in exchange for his guilty plea.
Or he can have the DP dropped the same way George's got dropped. This would be Billy going to trial and then Jake testifies at his trial to the prosecution's satisfaction. Then Billy's lawyers can do what George's lawyers did and ask the judge to drop the DP.
Angela does not have to testify at Billy's trial for the DP to be dropped, just Jake has to testify for that to happen. Same with George. If Angela had refused to testify at George's trial the DP would still have been dropped as long as Jake testified.
Jake's plea agreement is the one that says he has to testify at his family member's trials for the DP to be dropped for them. I never heard of this being a part of Angie's plea agreement.
I have never seen or heard that Angie's testimony gets the DP dropped for her family, just that if she doesn't testify she looses her plea deal of 30 years and she alone goes back under the DP.
Jake's plea agreement is that he has to testify to the prosecution's satisfaction and then the DP is dropped for that family member. He did that with George. Jake's plea agreement does NOT say Angie also has to testify for the DP to be dropped.
If someone can prove otherwise I would like to see the links for that.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
https://twitter.com/Angenette5
Good morning from the Pike Co. Courthouse where deliberations will begin momentarily in OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV. Jurors heard closings and jury instructions yesterday.
Jurors in OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV have been deliberating for about an hour - give or take - and have asked to see exhibits. Prosecutors met with Judge Deering in chambers to discuss which exhibits jurors want to see. We saw a big box of photos brought down.
We now have a third question from the jurors. Not sure what #2 and #3 were. Will try to get more info. OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV
A box of evidence just taken into the deliberation room
Ok. So, I just found out these "questions" from the jurors are not really questions. They were more requests for evidence. Prosecutors have been bringing down various items and handing them to the bailiff to give to the jurors.
WATCH: Feed for OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV. Nothing happening yet but the feed is up
Sometimes it's handled in chambers. If it's a big enough deal they'll put it on the record in open court.
WATCH: We'll be going on the record in a couple of minutes for a couple of small, minor things. OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV
Jury wants a copy of the transcript of Jake Wagner's testimony. It's 764 pages.
@LawCrimeNetwork
OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV
State objects to jurors being given transcripts. Defense wants jurors to get the transcripts. Rob Junk says they’re not printed yet. They can print in prosecutor’s office. Jury being brought in to caution them about transcripts.
Now the jury is no longer requesting the transcripts of Jake’s testimony.
Good morning from the Pike Co. Courthouse where deliberations will begin momentarily in OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV. Jurors heard closings and jury instructions yesterday.
Jurors in OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV have been deliberating for about an hour - give or take - and have asked to see exhibits. Prosecutors met with Judge Deering in chambers to discuss which exhibits jurors want to see. We saw a big box of photos brought down.
We now have a third question from the jurors. Not sure what #2 and #3 were. Will try to get more info. OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV
A box of evidence just taken into the deliberation room
Ok. So, I just found out these "questions" from the jurors are not really questions. They were more requests for evidence. Prosecutors have been bringing down various items and handing them to the bailiff to give to the jurors.
WATCH: Feed for OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV. Nothing happening yet but the feed is up
Sometimes it's handled in chambers. If it's a big enough deal they'll put it on the record in open court.
WATCH: We'll be going on the record in a couple of minutes for a couple of small, minor things. OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV
Jury wants a copy of the transcript of Jake Wagner's testimony. It's 764 pages.
@LawCrimeNetwork
OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV
State objects to jurors being given transcripts. Defense wants jurors to get the transcripts. Rob Junk says they’re not printed yet. They can print in prosecutor’s office. Jury being brought in to caution them about transcripts.
Now the jury is no longer requesting the transcripts of Jake’s testimony.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Jury deliberation continues at this time.
JMO, but I think it's highly possible that a lot of the W's paranoia could have stemmed from their ways of living in regards to being thieves and arsonists....always having to look over their shoulders to see if someone is watching them while they are stealing and/or scoping out their next theft/target, and/or people/LE following them, possibly the fear of insurance fraud investigations, etc., etc.........
JMO/thoughts.
JMO/thoughts.
Agreed.
What I don't get though is they were never caught for any of that. We heard about ALL THOSE CRIMES and no arrests. Jake and George.. zero arrests. Billy and Angela it had been a long while.. like over 10 years maybe 15 since they had any arrests.. maybe more than that. We know they got away with all those arsons. Why would they be THAT paranoid when it seems LE never even were following them, questioning them, accusing them of any of these crimes.. we heard of no investigations over the arsons, the thefts, none of it. So Billy is paranoid and taught them to all be paranoid. At some point you are an adult and if you've personally never had police accusing you or questioning you over all the crimes you did commit, what makes someone then paranoid they are being framed for a crime they "didn't commit"
CIA Team Member
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I did too, plus some. Therefore, I will speak on behalf of Tab.
I keep seeing the tweets that the judge said they have to read it all. He didn't say that. He said it needed to be considered as the whole of his testimony and the concern is with getting the transcript (or only part of it) is they will focus in on one part and not rely on their memory of the entire testimony and even the testimony of everyone else because they won't have all other witness transcripts either. I take this as a reasonable statement.. it would be a concern if seeing it all causes jurors to get hung up on one statement or one thing and then not see the larger context or what was said on direct vs cross and so on. 700+ pages is a lot so I don't think he literally mean you have to read it all he gave them the concerns he had with getting just parts.. he wouldn't provide just parts, he'd give them the entire thing and wouldn't want them to take one thing and not see the rest of the testimony.
Seems this tweet makes it sound like the judge said if we print this transcript you have to read all 700+ pages and that isn't what he said.
The jurors quickly said they didn't need it.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Bailiff in OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV sent a note from the jury to the judge. Prosecution and defense summoned to Judge Deering's chambers.
Angie Canepa came out of Judge Deering's chambers and grabbed some papers. The court stenographer then went into chambers, too.
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