OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

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It all had to do with her purchase of bullet proof vests. These vests were not even used in the murders so I don't know why they were such an issue, but at any rate she was accused of lying about when she bought them.

After many many months of the prosecution asking for receipts for the vests, she was finally able to produce them which proved they were purchased after the murders in May 2016.

She was able to prove she did not lie to the Grand Jury, she just couldn't remember where she had purchased the vests.

JMO, the state dropped it's charges with prejudice in part because they weren't ready to reveal all the evidence they had against FW and the events that happened at FWF. They were moving towards trials for the killer Wagners and weren't going to show their evidence or strategy. Not only that, even more evidence and witness testimony was discovered by LE after FW's case was put on hold

  • For instance, there are witnesses who saw a BPV in Billy's room at FWF the week before the murders, along with a gun, ammo, etc.
  • FW offered to help provide alibis to protect Billy and his family from being arrested for the Rhoden murders
  • FW was overheard discussing threats or punishment against certain "witnesses" who helped the prosecution charge the Wagners
LE discovered much of this evidence after the arrests of FW and the other Wagners. IOW, the state has even more evidence today against FW (and possibly others) than they had in 2018. JMO, I'm keeping an open mind about her previous charges and others.
 
JMO, the state dropped it's charges with prejudice in part because they weren't ready to reveal all the evidence they had against FW and the events that happened at FWF. They were moving towards trials for the killer Wagners and weren't going to show their evidence or strategy. Not only that, even more evidence and witness testimony was discovered by LE after FW's case was put on hold

  • For instance, there are witnesses who saw a BPV in Billy's room at FWF the week before the murders, along with a gun, ammo, etc.
  • FW offered to help provide alibis to protect Billy and his family from being arrested for the Rhoden murders
  • FW was overheard discussing threats or punishment against certain "witnesses" who helped the prosecution charge the Wagners
LE discovered much of this evidence after the arrests of FW and the other Wagners. IOW, the state has even more evidence today against FW (and possibly others) than they had in 2018. JMO, I'm keeping an open mind about her previous charges and others.
Do you mean without prejudice. With prejudice means they can't refile.
 
Do you mean without prejudice. With prejudice means they can't refile.

7/1/2019

The charges were dismissed without prejudice meaning they could be refiled.

PIKETON, Ohio (AP) —
Prosecutors have dropped the charges against a woman accused of lying to a grand jury during an investigation into the fatal shootings of eight people.

A judge in Ohio agreed Wednesday to dismiss obstruction and perjury charges against 77-year-old Fredericka Wagner.

[..]

A state prosecutor says investigators continue their work and still could refile charges against Wagner.

Her attorney told the judge she has maintained her innocence and denied any involvement.

Prosecutors say Wagner lied after investigators found two bulletproof vests at her home.

Wagner's attorney says she had receipts showing she bought the vests after the killings.
 
Do you mean without prejudice. With prejudice means they can't refile.
Yes, thanks. I’ll always remember watching the hearing and reading the documents.

Hopefully, that doesn’t distract from the key points of my comment. The old evidence against FW has been supplemented with better evidence.

There is more evidence and testimony against FW and others since that time. It could implicate her in helping cover up evidence, plot revenge, and more. There were probably a lot of questions the state wanted to ask about activities at FWF before and after the murders, but they weren’t germane to GW4s trial. What BPV did Billy have at FWF before the murders? What happened to it? Was it worn the night of the murders, then destroyed? Was that why FW purchased new ones later?

It would also be interesting to investigate the distribution of Percocet to Billy from the nursing home business.
 
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Bear with me on this question I have regarding WS terms of service. The title of this websleuth's thread references the murder of 8 people of the Rhoden family. In November of 2018, 6 people were arrested in connection to those murders. 4 of those 6 people were directly involved in the planning, committing and covering up of those murders. The other two were arrested for helping coverup the murders(perjury). I feel we are well within the WS's terms of service to discuss a person who was arrested in connection with this crime and the information provided via mainstream media and evidence presented in a court of law. Correct me if I am missing something here.
Members can discuss whatever is contained in MSM and whatever is said at trial. For those who were initially arrested but who are not any of accused in the murders, just don't trash them or make strong insinuations, direct or indirect accusations against them. (i.e. if you think there is something hinky, you can offer an opinion along the lines of, for example, "IMO that sounds a bit hinky" or "well IMO that is at odds with what so-and-so said".

I don't believe RW was ever charged with anything so only her testimony at trial can be discussed (or whatever was said in MSM).

As FW was initially charged with perjury, but charges were dismissed without prejudice, those are facts and that can be discussed. She is however considered innocent until/unless proven guilty in the eyes of the law. Members may refer to those facts, but no trashing her or direct or indirect accusations or strong insinuations.

As always, please use initials only for individuals who are not any of the accused at trial.

ETA: Edited re RW to say (or whatever was said in MSM).
 
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Members can discuss whatever is contained in MSM and whatever is said at trial. For those who were initially arrested but who are not any of accused in the murders, just don't trash them or make strong insinuations, direct or indirect accusations against them. (i.e. if you think there is something hinky, you can offer an opinion along the lines of, for example, "IMO that sounds a bit hinky" or "well IMO that is at odds with what so-and-so said".

I don't believe RW was ever charged with anything so only her testimony at trial can be discussed (or whatever was said in MSM).

As FW was initially charged with perjury, but charges were dismissed without prejudice, those are facts and that can be discussed. She is however considered innocent until/unless proven guilty in the eyes of the law. Members may refer to those facts, but no trashing her or direct or indirect accusations or strong insinuations.

As always, please use initials only for individuals who are not any of the accused at trial.

ETA: Edited re RW to say (or whatever was said in MSM).
Thank you for the information/clarification. I truly appreciate it.
 
JMO, the state dropped it's charges with prejudice in part because they weren't ready to reveal all the evidence they had against FW and the events that happened at FWF. They were moving towards trials for the killer Wagners and weren't going to show their evidence or strategy. Not only that, even more evidence and witness testimony was discovered by LE after FW's case was put on hold

  • For instance, there are witnesses who saw a BPV in Billy's room at FWF the week before the murders, along with a gun, ammo, etc.
  • FW offered to help provide alibis to protect Billy and his family from being arrested for the Rhoden murders
  • FW was overheard discussing threats or punishment against certain "witnesses" who helped the prosecution charge the Wagners
LE discovered much of this evidence after the arrests of FW and the other Wagners. IOW, the state has even more evidence today against FW (and possibly others) than they had in 2018. JMO, I'm keeping an open mind about her previous charges and others.

Who said that FW wanted to provide an alibi? This is not believable to me that she would say this because she is a smart woman and knows that Billy and the other 3 Wagners were on Peterson Rd. that night and that the CELL TOWERS WOULD CONFIRM THIS.

Plus, she knew what the 4 Wagners used as their alibi. I believe 100% Billy would have told her that they were on Peterson Rd having a family movie night and told her that this is where they told BCI they were. There were phone calls made between them on the 21st and 22nd. Billy's first and last phone calls on the 21st were from Peterson Rd.



Don't get me wrong, I believe YOU, that you heard someone say FW said this, I just don't believe the person who said it unless it is someone from BCI who got her on a recording saying it.

Makes no sense for FW to say they all spent the night with her when it is not something they ever do and all their cell phones were at Peterson Rd, and makes no sense for her to say she spent the night with them when it is not something she ever does and her cell phone was at FWF. Plus, once the Wagners told BCI they were having family movie night on Peterson Rd, it was too late to change the alibi to something else.

It is interesting that she said to The Plains Dealer:

"None of us were anywhere near there (murder scenes) that night."

Here is their alibi from article I linked about Angela's testimony:

"Canepa asked whether the family came up with a story they were all to tell law enforcement in case they were questioned about the murders; the story would be that Billy came over to Peterson Road for family night and they all watched a movie, Angela said. However, neither she nor Jake could remember which movie they'd agreed on, she said."

It was also mentioned in a MSM article that Angela stayed home to provide an alibi. I think she used some of their phones to make it look like they were there.
 
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Who said that FW wanted to provide an alibi? This is not believable to me that she would say this because she is a smart woman and knows that Billy and the other 3 Wagners were on Peterson Rd. that night and that the CELL TOWERS WOULD CONFIRM THIS.

Plus, she knew what the 4 Wagners used as their alibi. I believe 100% Billy would have told her that they were on Peterson Rd having a family movie night and told her that this is where they told BCI they were. There were phone calls made between them on the 21st and 22nd. Billy's first and last phone calls on the 21st were from Peterson Rd.



Don't get me wrong, I believe YOU, that you heard someone say FW said this, I just don't believe the person who said it unless it is someone from BCI who got her on a recording saying it.

Makes no sense for FW to say they all spent the night with her when it is not something they ever do and all their cell phones were at Peterson Rd, and makes no sense for her to say she spent the night with them when it is not something she ever does and her cell phone was at FWF. Plus, once the Wagners told BCI they were having family movie night on Peterson Rd, it was too late to change the alibi to something else.

It is interesting that she said to The Plains Dealer:

"None of us were anywhere near there (murder scenes) that night."

Here is their alibi from article I linked about Angela's testimony:

"Canepa asked whether the family came up with a story they were all to tell law enforcement in case they were questioned about the murders; the story would be that Billy came over to Peterson Road for family night and they all watched a movie, Angela said. However, neither she nor Jake could remember which movie they'd agreed on, she said."

It was also mentioned in a MSM article that Angela stayed home to provide an alibi. I think she used some of their phones to make it look like they were there.
It was in AWs testimony during GW4s trial. AW claimed FW offered to tell LE that the shoes purchased at Walmart for Jake and GW4 to wear at the murders were for FWs husband.

Maybe alibi isn’t the best term, call it what you want. It was FW proposing to make up a story about the shoes so LE couldn’t connect them to the shoe prints at the crime scenes and use them as evidence at trial. AW couldn’t take up FW on her offer as she’d already told LE that she bought them for JW and GW4.

Sorry the term I used was confusing for you. I hope that clears it up.
I used it in the context of providing information on someone’s behalf to confuse LE or cover up or explain away evidence related to the crimes.

That said, you make interesting points about FWs comments in her interview about her whereabouts that night. Also I’ve always thought the use of the word “us” is interesting. Was she just blowing smoke, so to speak? It makes one wonder about all the cell phone pings and data in the area that night. From watching the trial I’ve assumed there was more evidence gathered that wasn’t used for GW 4s trial, but may apply to others. Of course they would need probable cause to use it.
 
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WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON - New pre-trial hearing January 18th, 1:00pm

12/29/2022 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: PRE-TRIAL
Date: 01/18/2023 Time: 01:00 PM

08/15/2022 AGREED ENTRY GRANTING MOTION TO CONTINUE HEARING ON MOTIONS AND JURY TRIAL -- THE HEARINGS ON MOTIONS PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 9, 2022 AT 1:00PM AND THE JURY TRIAL PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED TO COMMENCE ON MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 2022 AT 8:30AM EACH SHALL BE RESCHEDULED TO A NEW DATE AND TIME TO BE DETERMINED BY THE COURT
 
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WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON - New pre-trial hearing January 18th, 1:00pm

12/29/2022 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Judge: DEERING, RANDY D
Event: PRE-TRIAL
Date: 01/18/2023 Time: 01:00 PM

08/15/2022 AGREED ENTRY GRANTING MOTION TO CONTINUE HEARING ON MOTIONS AND JURY TRIAL -- THE HEARINGS ON MOTIONS PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 9, 2022 AT 1:00PM AND THE JURY TRIAL PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED TO COMMENCE ON MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 2022 AT 8:30AM EACH SHALL BE RESCHEDULED TO A NEW DATE AND TIME TO BE DETERMINED BY THE COURT
I wonder if this is a hint, that Deering, will be the judge for 3 trial.
 
I wonder if this is a hint, that Deering, will be the judge for 3 trial.

You might be right! It seems likely the state and county have a plan for managing the Wagner trials. JMO, Judge Deering handled everything very well so far. It would be difficult for another judge to step in and learn this complicated crimes and the murder cases.
 
I wonder if this is a hint, that Deering, will be the judge for 3 trial.
I think it would be a best case scenario if Derring heard GWIII’s case. He is familiar with all aspects of the case and things Defense may use to muddy the waters.
Can you imagine a new judge unfamiliar with all this to get caught up with everything? Defense could have a heyday trying to confuse everything and everyone…
 
I wonder if this is a hint, that Deering, will be the judge for 3 trial.

Well from what I read, retired judges often are appointed to hear Cases when there is a conflict of interest with the sitting judge. Junk will be the sitting judge but has the conflict of interest because he was on the prosecution which gives him a prosecution bias.

So judge Deering could very well be appointed out of his February retirement to over see Billy's trial. I think this would by far be the best judge to do it.


Pike County Common Pleas Court Judge Randy Deering is retiring early next year.

Last month, Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk was elected to his seat.

Junk won’t be the judge at Billy’s trial because he has an obvious conflict of interest as one of the prosecutors in the massacre case and all of the other Wagners’ court proceedings so far.

Retiring judges, as Deering will soon be, are appointed by the Ohio Supreme Court’s chief justice to oversee criminal trials when the sitting judge is unable to preside.

Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice-Elect Sharon Kennedy will become the second woman to serve as chief justice on Jan. 1, 2023.

Kennedy, a former Hamilton police officer in Butler County, is expected to appoint a visiting judge for Billy’s trial once a date is set sooner rather than later.

She came to the Supreme Court from the Butler County Court of Common Pleas, Domestic Relations Division, where, as the administrative judge, she made timely resolution of cases a priority.
 
“We got one more to go,” said Al Lewis, who led the Pike County Sheriff’s Office involvement in the case. “He’s next. And we’re going to win that one too.”



Junk would not likely hear the case since he prosecuted Wagner IV. Deering could handle it – in Pike County or elsewhere – by appointment of the Ohio Supreme Court's chief justice.
 
It was in AWs testimony during GW4s trial. AW claimed FW offered to tell LE that the shoes purchased at Walmart for Jake and GW4 to wear at the murders were for FWs husband.

Maybe alibi isn’t the best term, call it what you want. It was FW proposing to make up a story about the shoes so LE couldn’t connect them to the shoe prints at the crime scenes and use them as evidence at trial. AW couldn’t take up FW on her offer as she’d already told LE that she bought them for JW and GW4.

Sorry the term I used was confusing for you. I hope that clears it up.
I used it in the context of providing information on someone’s behalf to confuse LE or cover up or explain away evidence related to the crimes.

That said, you make interesting points about FWs comments in her interview about her whereabouts that night. Also I’ve always thought the use of the word “us” is interesting. Was she just blowing smoke, so to speak? It makes one wonder about all the cell phone pings and data in the area that night. From watching the trial I’ve assumed there was more evidence gathered that wasn’t used for GW 4s trial, but may apply to others. Of course they would need probable cause to use it.

Is there a link to AW's testimony re FW?

I know that AW opted out so I couldn't see or hear her testimony.
 
Is there a link to AW's testimony re FW?

I know that AW opted out so I couldn't see or hear her testimony.
The link in my quoted post is a pretty extensive recap of AW's testimony about the letter she wrote to FW and other allegations about FW by AW.

The letter by AW to her MIL (FW) was discussed by the defense when AW testified against her son.


Nash brought up a letter Angela wrote to her mother-in-law after she was arrested, asking her to read it aloud for the jury.

"There is so much no one will ever know," read Angela.

In the letter, she'd told Fredericka that everything she'd pleaded guilty to was a lie; Angela clarified this was because, after the deal, she'd forgotten why she faced charges for things like burglary and firearms charges when she hadn't been at the scenes of the murders. She told Nash she reconvened with her lawyers, who explained her charges to her again, which she now understands.

The intent of the writing her mother-in-law, Angela said, had been to try and explain herself to Fredericka, so the matriarch wasn't upset about her cooperation with the state.

Like John Parker had with Jake, Nash questioned Angela about whether she could be believed, since cooperating with the prosecution meant she had to testify to their liking in order for the death specifications to be dropped from the charges faced by the family. Angela pushed back, insisting that regardless of her plea deal, she was telling the truth.

She'd dragged her own mother into an octuple homicide case, Nash pointed out, and made her complicit in the crimes, asking her to lie to police for the family.

"I did not talk her into it, I just did not talk her out of it," said Angela.
 
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