OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

[Betty P]

You must know these folks. Personally. I've taken my firearms out of the home before. They certainly couldn't take them to AK. Why would RW wonder. We are a region of firearm owners. Nothing odd about that and they were NOT the murder weapons...

AW Lies. She's a lying liar, who lied to get her own mother to cover for her, saying it was to keep her from being killed. RJN lied for them to the GJ.

Yeah... AW's a fount of virtue and truth on the stand, or in her letters, and calls? Nopers on all three.

IIRC, the problem with RW hiding the weapons for the Wagners while in AK was that Billy and others lied about those weapons, saying they didn't own them anymore. Why lie about something that, allegedly, was legal?

Yes, AW, Billy and their sons lie like they breathe. The problem is that parents/family of Billy and AW did the same. To a degree, nearly all the family members lied and obstructed justice as investigators tried to find out who killed the Rhoden family. Recall, both RN and FW were charged with perjury for lying to the grand jury.

Helping plot revenge against "those persons not arrested" was also problematic. That threat sounded like it included witnesses, family and others who might have known about the murders, those who might testify against the Wagner family. Assume this was testimony that came from Jake's wife, Beth.

 

[rsd1200]

What is really weird is that before her charges were dismissed when she was trying to look good in her Plains Dealer interview and in those short video clips, all done with her attorney in her kitchen, she said everybody loved Hanna and she considered Jake and Hanna married and that Chris and Billy were best friends.

Then right after her charges were dismissed she told a journalist in the court lobby that she didn't even know those people, she was referring to the Rhodens.

I can't figure out what is going on with her saying 2 different things. First she knows them then she totally dismisses them.

I'm sure she knew HMR. She practically lived on her property. Chris and Billy were good friends. That was made clear at trial. I doubt she did know the others. BW didn't even want AW to come around CR1's and not b/c he was jealous. B/c they did biz together. It was plain as day before and even plainer after the trial.

IIRC, the problem with RW hiding the weapons for the Wagners while in AK was that Billy and others lied about those weapons, saying they didn't own them anymore. Why lie about something that, allegedly, was legal?

Yes, AW, Billy and their sons lie like they breathe. The problem is that parents/family of Billy and AW did the same. To a degree, nearly all the family members lied and obstructed justice as investigators tried to find out who killed the Rhoden family. Recall, both RN and FW were charged with perjury for lying to the grand jury.

Helping plot revenge against "those persons not arrested" was also problematic. That threat sounded like it included witnesses, family and others who might have known about the murders, those who might testify against the Wagner family. Assume this was testimony that came from Jake's wife, Beth.

If I believed my child did not commit the murders of eight people, then I might say some things that were not very flattering on tape as well, actually, I'm sure I would have. As hard is it would be to believe for any parent, I think she believes it now. There's a before and an after. The after was pretty clear as to who it was who committed the murders.
If you don't think they lied to FW then you don't give the W4 as much credit as being the lying criminal murderers that they are. Why lie about the weapons? the W4 lied about the weapons. Did RW? She can't help what they told LE.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I think the other Wagner brother and his family have cooperated very well with LE, not so much the others.

As for FW and RW, testimony and evidence in GW4's trial showed their actions after the murders showed some level of complicity in helping cover up the murders. RW allowed the Peterson Rd Wagners to hide their guns in her bedroom while they were in AK. As noted above, FW offered to help AW lie about the shoes she bought for the murders at Walmart. Neither have expressed any sadness nor shown sympathy for the murders of the 7 Rhoden family members and Hannah Gilley. Their only concern has been protecting the reputation of their family and trying to get their family acquitted by actions like lying to the grand jury.

Most of that came from the 2 lying liars JW and his Mommy. As for RW allowing the non murder guns to be stored (NOT HIDDEN) in her bedroom, wasn't a crime. Also, how do you know none of them were sympathetic or expressed any sadness?


It's fine to have an opinion, but moreso if you have proof of this. 4 Wagner's took it upon themselves to smear these other Wagner families. FW has not been charged again so why is she and her daughter even being discussed on this thread?

I'm finished discussing FW or RW. They are not, and haven't been on trial.

 

[Dudly]

What is really weird is that before her charges were dismissed when she was trying to look good in her Plains Dealer interview and in those short video clips, all done with her attorney in her kitchen, she said everybody loved Hanna and she considered Jake and Hanna married and that Chris and Billy were best friends.

Then right after her charges were dismissed she told a journalist in the court lobby that she didn't even know those people, she was referring to the Rhodens.

I can't figure out what is going on with her saying 2 different things. First she knows them then she totally dismisses them.

GWIV had multiple versions of things also. That must be a family thing…
MOO

 

[rsd1200]

Most of that came from the 2 lying liars JW and his Mommy. As for RW allowing the non murder guns to be stored (NOT HIDDEN) in her bedroom, wasn't a crime. Also, how do you know none of them were sympathetic or expressed any sadness?


It's fine to have an opinion, but moreso if you have proof of this. 4 Wagner's took it upon themselves to smear these other Wagner families.


FW has not been charged again so why is she and her daughter even being discussed on this thread?

I'm finished discussing FW or RW. They are not, and haven't been on trial.

BBM

This. It is not normally even permitted on WS. They are family members of the convicted. Not the convicted.

 

[Betty P]

Most of that came from the 2 lying liars JW and his Mommy. As for RW allowing the non murder guns to be stored (NOT HIDDEN) in her bedroom, wasn't a crime. Also, how do you know none of them were sympathetic or expressed any sadness?


It's fine to have an opinion, but moreso if you have proof of this. 4 Wagner's took it upon themselves to smear these other Wagner families. FW has not been charged again so why is she and her daughter even being discussed on this thread?

I'm finished discussing FW or RW. They are not, and haven't been on trial.

Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge

Judges sets bond with 10 percent provision, but says house arrest will be mandatory if either woman posts bond

www.chillicothegazette.com

The “confidential informant“ who provided the information about FW participating in discussing revenge against “those not arrested” was most likely Beth, Jake’s wife. It came before the arrests. She testified about other activities that took place during that visit to FW’s Farm.
As for RW hiding the guns in her room, the guns themselves may have been legally purchased (maybe), but the Wagners had lied about them, stating they no longer owned them. The bullet proof vests purchased by FW for Billy was also hidden there. That info also came before the arrests and was not provided by Jake or AW.

This information was provided in connection with FWs arrest in connection with the murders. The charges were dismissed, but can still be reinstated . The information comes from established, credible news media sources and evidence provided by the state.

The Wagners are being discussed in this thread because of evidence revealed and discussed about their activities during GW4s trial, including testimony from AW.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Don't forget, Fredericka Wagner was overheard in conversations discussing taking revenge against persons not arrested and in helping make plans for escape.

Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge

Judges sets bond with 10 percent provision, but says house arrest will be mandatory if either woman posts bond

www.chillicothegazette.com

As for expressing sympathy to the Rhoden family, Fredericka has given quite a few interviews in the news media over the years. She's never once expressed any sympathy or sadness at the tragic and untimely deaths of the murder victims.

I am glad it is not being forgotten about that FW provided some sort of support to the "Wagner 4" after the murders were committed. I know she can be recharged with her involvement in these crimes and I have seen enough to believe she should. I do not see anything that she knew about the planning of the murders beforehand. However, it seems like after the murders, at some point in time, she knew her son was involved and decided to try to assist in obstruction of justice...i.e. saying she needed the shoes for her husband, being present for discussions of breaking people out of jail, etc. There might be more info the prosecutors have that is not released to the mainstream media. I believe justice would be served if she was recharged and tried in connection with this.

 

[Betty P]

I am glad it is not being forgotten about that FW provided some sort of support to the "Wagner 4" after the murders were committed. I know she can be recharged with her involvement in these crimes and I have seen enough to believe she should. I do not see anything that she knew about the planning of the murders beforehand. However, it seems like after the murders, at some point in time, she knew her son was involved and decided to try to assist in obstruction of justice...i.e. saying she needed the shoes for her husband, being present for discussions of breaking people out of jail, etc. There might be more info the prosecutors have that is not released to the mainstream media. I believe justice would be served if she was recharged and tried in connection with this.

There were quite a few troubling facts revealed during testimony in GW4's trial, including use of prescription opioids from the nursing home business. Perhaps the state will address them after Billy's trial.

Pike County Massacre Defendant's Ex-Wife Testifies on Wagner Family Life, Including 'Angela's Rules' About Sex and More

Tabitha Claytor recalled discussions with Angela Wagner, in which Wagner told her "you wasn't allowed to give *advertiser censored* or you'd go to hell."

lawandcrime.com

 

[rsd1200]

Off to greener pastures. Can't have a discussion w/o gatekeepers taking over and slamming relatives, of both the convicted and an upcoming defendant. Geez. If we put our own lives under a microscope... Just a friendly morning observation.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

There were quite a few troubling facts revealed during testimony in GW4's trial, including use of prescription opioids from the nursing home business. Perhaps the state will address them after Billy's trial.

Pike County Massacre Defendant's Ex-Wife Testifies on Wagner Family Life, Including 'Angela's Rules' About Sex and More

Tabitha Claytor recalled discussions with Angela Wagner, in which Wagner told her "you wasn't allowed to give *advertiser censored* or you'd go to hell."

lawandcrime.com

Yes, there was that also. So many tidbits of the extent of crimes committed have come out during trial, hard to keep track of them all.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Bear with me on this question I have regarding WS terms of service. The title of this websleuth's thread references the murder of 8 people of the Rhoden family. In November of 2018, 6 people were arrested in connection to those murders. 4 of those 6 people were directly involved in the planning, committing and covering up of those murders. The other two were arrested for helping coverup the murders(perjury). I feel we are well within the WS's terms of service to discuss a person who was arrested in connection with this crime and the information provided via mainstream media and evidence presented in a court of law. Correct me if I am missing something here.

 

[rsd1200]

Bear with me on this question I have regarding WS terms of service. The title of this websleuth's thread references the murder of 8 people of the Rhoden family. In November of 2018, 6 people were arrested in connection to those murders. 4 of those 6 people were directly involved in the planning, committing and covering up of those murders. The other two were arrested for helping coverup the murders(perjury). I feel we are well within the WS's terms of service to discuss a person who was arrested in connection with this crime and the information provided via mainstream media and evidence presented in a court of law. Correct me if I am missing something here.

One last time, when was RW arrested? It's tiresome at best, and wrong at worst to continue to try and implicate her if she's never been a suspect nor arrested.

 

[Betty P]

One last time, when was RW arrested? It's tiresome at best, and wrong at worst.

You're right. RW was never arrested or charged with any crime. At GW4's recent trial, it was revealed that she hid the guns and BPVs in her room at FWF after the Wagners went to AK. The Wagners had told everyone that they no longer owned those weapons.

BCI sought them because they were conducting a murder investigation and needed to check all the weapons the Billy Wagner family owned to see if any matched the ballistic evidence from the Rhoden murders crime scenes. Upon later examination by BCI, it was determined the guns were not used in the Rhoden Family murders.

According to AW's testimony, prior to Billy Wagner and family moving to AK with the children, FW had offered to lie to police about the Athletic Works shoes used in the murders to avert LE suspicion. While hiding the other Wagner weapons and BPVs in RW's room may not have been illegal in itself, it was established that FW knew Billy and his family were under suspicion for the murders.

If Mods want to remove references to RW, I don't mind.

Re RW and Billy and weapons in the bedrooms at FWF

Pike County Massacre Defendant's Ex-Wife Testifies on Wagner Family Life, Including 'Angela's Rules' About Sex and More

Tabitha Claytor recalled discussions with Angela Wagner, in which Wagner told her "you wasn't allowed to give *advertiser censored* or you'd go to hell."

lawandcrime.com

"Tackett said he knew both Billy Wagner and victim Chris Rhoden Sr. He testified that he warned Chris Rhoden Sr. about the Wagners when his daughter, Hanna May, started dating Jake Wagner. Tackett recalled telling Rhoden “if you have trouble with them, they will harm you or kill you.”

"Tackett described Fredericka Wagner as being very religious and a successful business woman. He said Fredericka often provided Percocets to Billy, who used the pain pills in the years leading up to the homicides.

"Tackett recalled Billy Wagner’s sister, Robin, taking him into Wagner’s bedroom at the Flying W Farm about a week before the homicides. He said he became scared once he saw a billy club, a bullet proof vest, which he described as a “full metal jacket,” a .22 caliber hornet pistol, a vest with a gun holster and ammunition.

"The witness said Billy Wagner was very angry at his sister for letting him into the room. Tackett said Wagner told him he was going to order a brass catcher and Tackett said “you’re getting ready to kill somebody. They’re dead.”

"Tackett said he didn’t call authorities before the homicides because he feared Billy Wagner would harm or kill him. A week later, Tackett learned the Rhodens were murdered and he contacted authorities to let them know he believed Billy Wagner was responsible.

"Tackett said, however, that he didn’t speak with agents until September 2016 — five months later — when he offered to wear a wire for BCI, which he said he did on four or five occasions. Tackett said on cross-examination he was paid $100 each time he wore the wire but when he visited Billy Wagner and his family at the Peterson Rd. property he said Billy gave him “the cold shoulder.”

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

One last time, when was RW arrested? It's tiresome at best, and wrong at worst to continue to try and implicate her if she's never been a suspect nor arrested.

As best as i can, i have reviewed any post i have made and i do not see any reference to RW. By RW i think you are referring to billy’s sister. I have only made teferences to FW and her now documented role in the coverup in these murders.

 

[rsd1200]

As best as i can, i have reviewed any post i have made and i do not see any reference to RW. By RW i think you are referring to billy’s sister. I have only made teferences to FW and her now documented role in the coverup in these murders.

Then my prior comment(s) were not directed toward you at all.

 

[Cool Cats]

Bear with me on this question I have regarding WS terms of service. The title of this websleuth's thread references the murder of 8 people of the Rhoden family. In November of 2018, 6 people were arrested in connection to those murders. 4 of those 6 people were directly involved in the planning, committing and covering up of those murders. The other two were arrested for helping coverup the murders(perjury). I feel we are well within the WS's terms of service to discuss a person who was arrested in connection with this crime and the information provided via mainstream media and evidence presented in a court of law. Correct me if I am missing something here.

Yes FW and RN can be discussed as pertaining to their court cases and what came out in court and what came out in the MSM about them. In fact, FW gave several interviews herself, even allowing video clips to be recorded of her that are on YouTube.

For lying to the Grand Jury FW got 2 charges:

Obstruction Of Justice and Perjury.

Both charges were dismissed without prejudice. This means that the charges can be brought back again. It also means that there was not enough evidence against her to take her to trial. She did not waive her speedy trial rights and the prosecution ran out of time to go over new evidence they said they needed time to look at. They said she could eventually be charged again.

The statute of limitations runs out after 6 years which would be July 2024.

It all had to do with her purchase of bullet proof vests. These vests were not even used in the murders so I don't know why they were such an issue, but at any rate she was accused of lying about when she bought them.

After many many months of the prosecution asking for receipts for the vests, she was finally able to produce them which proved they were purchased after the murders in May 2016.

She was able to prove she did not lie to the Grand Jury, she just couldn't remember where she had purchased the vests.

I think if the new evidence the prosecution said they were looking at had been damaging towards FW, they would have re-filed new charges against her, or brought back the same charges - but it never happened.

I think if Angela and Jake had implicated her in any way, such as helping with the cover up, I believe BCI would have investigated this and brought charges against her if there was enough evidence. No charges have ever been brought back against her and I believe they just don't have enough on her to file charges.

Angela saying that FW offered to lie about the shoe purchase is not evidence against FW because FW did not follow though and lie about the shoes to the investigators. Had she actually followed though and lied then they could have charged her for Obstruction Of Justice and lying to BCI.

Murder items were hidden on her property but BCI would have to prove that she knew about it and allowed the items to be hidden for them to be able to charge her with Tampering with evidence and covering up a murder after the fact.

Testimony at trial was that the Wagners used a goose trap on a pond to hide the murder evidence and told everyone not to touch it. No one said FW knew that the murder items were hidden as anchors for the trap.

She was present for revenge and escape conversations but she never helped anyone to escape and she never went after anyone for revenge.

She looked up how to lie to the GJ the day before her testimony but they couldn't prove she actually did lie to the GJ.

She discussed her GJ testimony against the judge's orders but never faced any consequences for it. Maybe because they charged her with Perjury and Obstruction Of Justice. Or maybe because BCI did not want to
reveal how they found out this information about her. If BCI got this information from Jake's wife or a listening device they would not want the Wagners to know this.

With everything that has been revealed, with how much time has passed, with all the searches of her property, with the heavy investigation into her businesses and computers and bank and financial records etc...Plus with interviews of witnesses...... etc.......With all of this going on, FW still has not been charged with any crimes. Nor has she been re-charged with her original charges that were dropped.

I definitely think she Conspired with the Wagners after the fact, but there is not enough evidence to actually bring solid criminal charges against her. I think if BCI had anything criminally to charge her on they would have done so by now.

 

[Betty P]

Yes FW and RN can be discussed as pertaining to their court cases and what came out in court and what came out in the MSM about them. In fact, FW gave several interviews herself, even allowing video clips to be recorded of her that are on YouTube.

For lying to the Grand Jury FW got 2 charges:

Obstruction Of Justice and Perjury.

Both charges were dismissed without prejudice. This means that the charges can be brought back again. It also means that there was not enough evidence against her to take her to trial. She did not waive her speedy trial rights and the prosecution ran out of time to go over new evidence they said they needed time to look at. They said she could eventually be charged again.

The statute of limitations runs out after 6 years which would be July 2024.

It all had to do with her purchase of bullet proof vests. These vest were not even used in the murders so I don't know why they were such an issue, but at any rate she was accused of lying about when she bought them.

After many many months of the prosecution asking for receipts for the vests, she was finally able to produce them which proved they were purchased after the murders in May 2016.

She was able to prove she did not lie to the Grand Jury, she just couldn't remember where she had purchased the vests.

I think if the new evidence the prosecution said they were looking at had been damaging towards FW, they would have re-filed new charges against her, or brought back the same charges - but it never happened.

I think if Angela and Jake had implicated her in anyway, such as helping with the cover up, I believe BCI would have investigated this and brought charges against her if there was enough evidence. No charges have ever been brought back against her and I believe they just don't have enough on her to file charges.

Angela saying that FW offered to lie about the shoe purchase is not evidence against FW because FW did not follow though and lie about the shoes to the investigators. Had she actually followed though and lied then they could have charged her for Obstruction Of Justice and lying to BCI.

Murder items were hidden on her property but BCI would have to prove that she knew about it and allowed the items to be hidden for them to be able to charge her with Tampering with evidence and covering up a murder after the fact.

Testimony at trial was that the Wagners used a goose trap on a pond to hide the murder evidence and told everyone not to touch it. No one said FW knew that the murder items were hidden as anchors for the trap.

She was present for revenge and escape conversations but she never helped anyone to escape and she never went after anyone for revenge.

She looked up how to lie to the GJ the day before her testimony but they couldn't prove she actually did lie to the GJ.

She discussed her GJ testimony against the judge's orders but never faced any consequences for it. Maybe because they charged her with Perjury and Obstruction Of Justice. Or maybe because BCI did not want to
reveal how they found out this information about her. If BCI got this information from Jake's wife or a listening device they would not want the Wagners to know this.

With everything that has been revealed, with how much time has passed, with all the searches of her property, with the heavy investigation into her businesses and computers and bank and financial records etc...Plus with interviews of witnesses...... etc.......With all of this going on, FW still has not been charged with any crimes. Nor has she been re-charged with her original charges that were dropped.

I think there is evidence against her but not enough to actually bring criminal charges. I think if BCI had anything to charge her on they would have done so by now.

I think we have to wait and see what happens after Billy's trial. The state made the prosecution of the 4 Wagners a priority.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think we have to wait and see what happens after Billy's trial. The state made the prosecution of the 4 Wagners a priority.

I edited my post to say that I definitely think she Conspired with the Wagners after the fact. But I still think BCI would have changed her by now if they had enough evidence on her to criminally charge her.

But you do bring up an interesting point. IF and this is a big IF.....

IF the prosecution has enough evidence to charge FW with a crime it DOES make sense they would wait until after Billy's trial... Why?

Because of FW's speedy trial rights.

If she were arrested before Billy's trial the prosecution would be too busy with his trial to be able to prosecute FW's Case before her speedy trial time runs out.

She did not waive her speedy trial rights before so I do not think she would waive them a second time around.

But once Billy is found guilty I would expect charges would be filed in a few months time, if not, then I do not think any will ever be filed against her.

SIDE NOTE

As far as FW giving Billy prescription opioids the operative word here is prescription. If FW obtained the Percocet through a legal Dr's prescription, then there is nothing illegal about her giving Billy some of her medication.

It is not recommended that a person share their prescription with another adult but it is not illegal to do so or my husband and I would have been arrested by now. We have, here or there, shared our prescriptions with each other.

But it would be illegal if Billy then went out and sold the opioid medication that his mother gave him.

 

[Dudly]

Off to greener pastures. Can't have a discussion w/o gatekeepers taking over and slamming relatives, of both the convicted and an upcoming defendant. Geez. If we put our own lives under a microscope... Just a friendly morning observation.

You can pick your seat, pick your nose, but not pick your relatives…
My opinion only….

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Yes FW and RN can be discussed as pertaining to their court cases and what came out in court and what came out in the MSM about them. In fact, FW gave several interviews herself, even allowing video clips to be recorded of her that are on YouTube.

For lying to the Grand Jury FW got 2 charges:

Obstruction Of Justice and Perjury.

Both charges were dismissed without prejudice. This means that the charges can be brought back again. It also means that there was not enough evidence against her to take her to trial. She did not waive her speedy trial rights and the prosecution ran out of time to go over new evidence they said they needed time to look at. They said she could eventually be charged again.

The statute of limitations runs out after 6 years which would be July 2024.

It all had to do with her purchase of bullet proof vests. These vests were not even used in the murders so I don't know why they were such an issue, but at any rate she was accused of lying about when she bought them.

After many many months of the prosecution asking for receipts for the vests, she was finally able to produce them which proved they were purchased after the murders in May 2016.

She was able to prove she did not lie to the Grand Jury, she just couldn't remember where she had purchased the vests.

I think if the new evidence the prosecution said they were looking at had been damaging towards FW, they would have re-filed new charges against her, or brought back the same charges - but it never happened.

I think if Angela and Jake had implicated her in any way, such as helping with the cover up, I believe BCI would have investigated this and brought charges against her if there was enough evidence. No charges have ever been brought back against her and I believe they just don't have enough on her to file charges.

Angela saying that FW offered to lie about the shoe purchase is not evidence against FW because FW did not follow though and lie about the shoes to the investigators. Had she actually followed though and lied then they could have charged her for Obstruction Of Justice and lying to BCI.

Murder items were hidden on her property but BCI would have to prove that she knew about it and allowed the items to be hidden for them to be able to charge her with Tampering with evidence and covering up a murder after the fact.

Testimony at trial was that the Wagners used a goose trap on a pond to hide the murder evidence and told everyone not to touch it. No one said FW knew that the murder items were hidden as anchors for the trap.

She was present for revenge and escape conversations but she never helped anyone to escape and she never went after anyone for revenge.

She looked up how to lie to the GJ the day before her testimony but they couldn't prove she actually did lie to the GJ.

She discussed her GJ testimony against the judge's orders but never faced any consequences for it. Maybe because they charged her with Perjury and Obstruction Of Justice. Or maybe because BCI did not want to
reveal how they found out this information about her. If BCI got this information from Jake's wife or a listening device they would not want the Wagners to know this.

With everything that has been revealed, with how much time has passed, with all the searches of her property, with the heavy investigation into her businesses and computers and bank and financial records etc...Plus with interviews of witnesses...... etc.......With all of this going on, FW still has not been charged with any crimes. Nor has she been re-charged with her original charges that were dropped.

I definitely think she Conspired with the Wagners after the fact, but there is not enough evidence to actually bring solid criminal charges against her. I think if BCI had anything criminally to charge her on they would have done so by now.

Thank you. This really breaks all of her actions/efforts down for me in a very clear concise way.