OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

[Betty P]

Admitted liar.

'Take him away, judge:' Jake Wagner finishes testimony in Pike County murder trial

The younger brother of George Wagner IV had spent four days being quizzed on what happened the night of April 21, 2016, when eight people were killed.

news.yahoo.com

“You lied to everybody until you got your plea bargain, isn’t that true?” Parker asked.

“Yes.” Jake Wagner replied.

In addition to attacking his credibility, Parker zeroed in on the Jake Wagner’s memory, which Jake Wagner at one point described as a jigsaw puzzle. “Sometimes I remember things that didn’t happen that way,” he said.

“How long have you had this problem?” Parker asked when Jake Wagner said he sometimes has trouble remembering things.

“A long time,” Jake Wagner replied.

“Do you get confused sometimes?” Parker asked.

“Yes.” Jake Wagner answered.

Prior to that back and forth, Jake Wagner had described to the jury that at least two times he had been hit in the head as a child. He said he was so hurt the second time that he vomited if he tried to walk.

His father didn’t believe in going to the doctor, Jake Wagner explained during his testimony. George “Billy” Wagner III would stitch his kids up himself if they got hurt.

Jake Wagner also said his father taught him what he called “survival skills” early on in life.

Survival skills like how to break into cars; how to evade detection; how to break into a house or building with or without a lock pick; how to locate surveillance systems. Even how to survive in the woods on plants and mushrooms.

Lessons on how to break into cars eventually progressed to how to shoplift. Then how to siphon gas from cars. Even how to steal cargo from semi-trucks. Taking pains to stress that he personally never stole a car or cargo from semi-trucks, Jake Wagner – who worked for a time as a truck driver – said he sometimes would serve as lookout for his father.

Recounting a time his father delivered a stolen semitruck to Mexico, Jake Wagner said George “Billy” Wagner III was compensated handsomely.

Jake Wagner also said his father taught him to search corners when entering a room and to always pay attention to shadows. That and to always assume someone was listening in on his conversations.

“That was hardwired into my childhood. No matter where you was, assume that someone was listening,” Jake Wagner said.

“You’re a stone-cold killer, aren’t you?” Parker asked toward the end of the day’s proceedings.

“I was,” Jake Wagner replied.

“You killed eight people!” Parker said.

“I did,” Jake Wagner replied.

“You’re lying all the time, aren’t you?” Parker asked.

“I did,” Jake Wagner replied.

“You are!” John Parker shouted at him. “You sold your testimony to the state of Ohio to save your life?”

"I provided truthful testimony," Jake Wagner said.

"You sold that, didn't you? You didn't throw yourself on the mercy of the court with death specifications?" Parker asked.

“That’s one way of looking at it.” Jake Wagner replied.

Are these the beginnings of discussions to support GW4's appeal? To shorten his sentence and get him out of prison? If so, can we wait until after Billy's trial? Just a friendly request, not demands, not telling anyone what to discuss.

 

[Betty P]

Do not know if this was posted yet - I personally did not see it.

for GW4 - docket update:

12/22/2022 JOURNAL ENTRY -- This cause came on for hearing on December 19, 2022, upon the Defendant's Motion No. 120, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR NEW TRIAL," filed on December 14, 2022. The Court finds that the State of Ohio filed a "MEMORANDUM CONTRA DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR NEW TRIAL" on December 19, 2022, prior to the hearing on the motion. A sentencing hearing had previously been scheduled in this action for December 19, 2022, and the Court finds that both the State of Ohio and the Defendant, through counsel, agreed that the Defendant's Motion No. 120 should be heard on December 19, 2022, before the sentencing hearing.
The Defendant was present in Court and was represented by his attorneys, John Patrick Parker and Richard M. Nash, Jr. The State of Ohio was represented by the Prosecuting Attorney, Robert Junk, and by Special Prosecuting Attorney Angela Canepa and Special Prosecuting Attorney David A. Wilson.
The Court finds that the Defendant appeared in civilian clothing and without visible restraints.
Having been fully informed in the premises through the memoranda filed by each party and by oral argument presented by counsel for each party on December 19, 2022, the Court finds that Defendant's Motion No. 120 is not well taken, and it is hereby ORDERED that Defendant's Motion No. 120 is hereby overruled and denied.
The Clerk of Courts is directed to send a copy of this Journal Entry to the Defendant, to counsel for the Defendant, to the Prosecuting Attorney, and to each of the Special Prosecuting Attorneys, all by ordinary U.S. Mail

link: https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/e...6lgnaBH6DKTcsasAkoLtmMY1s07sYodfEHhbhWFjkaswA

Yes, I think there was a local news media link the other day that reported on this. Judge Deering denied the motion to give GW4 a new trial. It now moves on to the next stage for appeals.

If Billy still decides to go to trial, Pike County Courts will most likely schedule his trial next. It will be interesting to see if any new information is revealed during Billy's trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

Are these the beginnings of discussions to support GW4's appeal? To shorten his sentence and get him out of prison? If so, can we wait until after Billy's trial? Just a friendly request, not demands, not telling anyone what to discuss.

This is simply some of Jake's testimony on the stand when he testified in George's trial.

Has nothing to do with helping George get out of prison. In fact, Jake's testimony helped convict George.

Of course George's attorney was trying to get the jury to see Jake as a liar and not believe Jake's testimony.

If people want to read Jake's testimony then expect to read the defense cross examining him. Won't hurt Billy's trial. Jake's testimony is now public record.

In fact, expect Jake to say these same things at his dad's trial, which paint his dad as a total criminal. Both Jake and Angela's testimony implicate Billy being involved in the murders. Angela testified that all 4 were involved, Jake testified Billy killed Chris Sr, Gary and Kenny.

 

[Betty P]

This is simply some of Jake's testimony on the stand when he testified in George's trial.

Has nothing to do with helping George get out of prison. In fact, Jake's testimony helped convict George.

Of course George's attorney was trying to get the jury to see Jake as a liar and not believe Jake's testimony.

If people want to read Jake's testimony then expect to read the defense cross examining him. Won't hurt Billy's trial. Jake's testimony is now public record.

In fact, expect Jake to say these same things at his dad's trial, which paint his dad as a total criminal.

Agree. I expect Jake to say the same things at Billy's trial. Same with AW and RN.

 

[Cool Cats]

Agree. I expect Jake to say the same things at Billy's trial. Same with AW and RN.

And I added to my post that Angela testified that all 4 were involved and Jake testified that Billy killed Chris Sr, Gary and Kenny.

Jake goes into detail about his dad's involvement that night. Evidence and Wagner family testimony place Billy dropping off the murder truck to his neice, and BCI places Billy's phone at Peterson Rd that night. First time all 4 phones were together in 2016.

Billy's trial will be alot like George's trial. So it is obvious Billy can't win so why is he going to trial?

My guess is that he doesn't want to plead guilty. Even when he gets convicted he can still say he is innocent. He can still then appeal. It is the only way for him to "save face" with his mom and sister.

Billy is such a hardened criminal (according to Jake and George's own testimony) that it isn't in his nature to confess to his crimes.

My take on it.

I wonder why Billy turned out like this? His brother went on to having his own successful farm. Billy had every opportunity to do the same. His parent's could have helped him get his own businesses up and running. I don't get it. Why deliberately choose a life of crime? Plus, he could work for FWF and in FWF's many LLC businesses. He was living there rent free.

 

[Betty P]

And I added to my post that Angela testified that all 4 were involved and Jake testified that Billy killed Chris Sr, Gary and Kenny.

Jake goes into detail about his dad's involvement that night. Evidence and Wagner family testimony place Billy dropping off the murder truck to his neice, and BCI places Billy's phone at Peterson Rd that night. First time all 4 phones were together in 2016.

Billy's trial will be alot like George's trial. So it is obvious Billy can't win so why is he going to trial?

My guess is that he doesn't want to plead guilty. Even when he gets convicted he can still say he is innocent. He can still then appeal. It is the only way for him to "save face" with his mom and sister.

Billy is such a hardened criminal (according to Jake and George's own testimony) that it isn't in his nature to confess to his crimes.

My take on it.

I wonder why Billy turned out like this? His brother went on to having his own successful farm. Billy had every opportunity to do the same. His parent's could have helped him get his own businesses up and running. I don't get it. Why deliberately choose a life of crime? Plus, he could work for FWF and in FWF's many LLC businesses. He was living there rent free.

Billy goes to trial to "save face", I suppose. Appeals won't help much, but in Ohio anything is possible. JMO, Billy does have a big ego and sense of entitlement that I believe he learned from his parents.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, this all seemed to be common knowledge, including during the trial. Recall, also, that Jake admitted he wanted to get custody of K because he wanted K and S to grow up together.

IIRC, Jake was pretty clear about his intentions re K during the trial. It's also why he showed up at the hospital after the murders, trying to get K. Was AW also involved in this plotting for K? IIRC, the testimony supported that, though on a lesser level. My recollection was that she supported Jake getting K. They discussed this, IIRC.

Re seeing a copy of Jake's testimony, I thought someone had already procured that. IIRC, there was a performance of the trial dialogue on a podcast. Are there no verified copies or links to this transcript available to the public? The link you folks shared here apparently was not a good one. Are there fake or altered copies out there? Is there a verified version of the transcript available to the public online? Keep in mind, there may be some evidence the state will not reveal publicly before or during Billy's trial.

The version I was privy to, I felt was valid. I felt this way for several reasons; It's a well-respected site. A member of the Stone family was in the conversation thread, more than once, and they had sat through the trial, and I saw no objections to anything, the site has discussed. They are sponsored by a major online shopping company. I don't see Angenette Levy, who unless I'm mistaken, is approved here, doing a chat with the site, and the individual who was in the trial room during JW's and AW's testimony, who was also the individual who paid for the transcripts. (ALevy, is now covering the Idaho4 murders.) They even had a good discussion re; the discrepancy noted, between them, and A Levy, about JW stating he'd looked under DR's door. Yet, on cross, there's no doors closed in DR's room. Her cell phone lit up her face. She gasped when she saw him. Yes, JW is a liar/weaving his own story. It's like it's his very own story, he's crafting for a movie ( if you heard the leaked version). A huge discrepancy but, after having the entire information, I felt comfortable, that he was just living in his own little world.

 

[rsd1200]

Billy goes to trial to "save face", I suppose. Appeals won't help much, but in Ohio anything is possible. JMO, Billy does have a big ego and sense of entitlement that I believe he learned from his parents.

Billy is just Billy. I see a semi-pro fairly successful criminal, who has been caught a time or to and gotten charges knocked down. Not uncommon.

I think when they burned down their last home, the elder W's had enough. AW whined and moaned about having to work for her mil after she and her husband had provided a home for her son, AW, and her grandkids for over 20 years. Then the grandchildren start bringing in women, so she's looking at three generations now.

AW's letter to FW was a typical manipulative letter from jail. AW will do fine in prison. G3 is her bio son. Big difference if your son asks to come home, or you need him to help with his sick father and the farm. Even if he's spoiled and entitled, there's a lot of wealthy, spoiled, adult children, who don't murder eight people. My guess? G3 is just a run of the mill criminal and drug abuser.

 

[Cool Cats]

Billy is just Billy. I see a semi-pro fairly successful criminal, who has been caught a time or to and gotten charges knocked down. Not uncommon.

I think when they burned down their last home, the elder W's had enough. AW whined and moaned about having to work for her mil after she and her husband had provided a home for her son, AW, and her grandkids for over 20 years. Then the grandchildren start bringing in women, so she's looking at three generations now.

AW's letter to FW was a typical manipulative letter from jail. AW will do fine in prison. G3 is her bio son. Big difference if your son asks to come home, or you need him to help with his sick father and the farm. Even if he's spoiled and entitled, there's a lot of wealthy, spoiled, adult children, who don't murder eight people. My guess? G3 is just a run of the mill criminal and drug abuser.

I don't remember about AW's letter to FW. Can you fill us in? Do you know where this came up and what Angela wrote?

Thanks!

Great points:

"I think when they burned down their last home, the elder W's had enough. AW whined and moaned about having to work for her mil after she and her husband had provided a home for her son, AW, and her grandkids for over 20 years. Then the grandchildren start bringing in women, so she's looking at three generations now."

 

[evelezrn]

The version I was privy to, I felt was valid. I felt this way for several reasons; It's a well-respected site. A member of the Stone family was in the conversation thread, more than once, and they had sat through the trial, and I saw no objections to anything, the site has discussed. They are sponsored by a major online shopping company. I don't see Angenette Levy, who unless I'm mistaken, is approved here, doing a chat with the site, and the individual who was in the trial room during JW's and AW's testimony, who was also the individual who paid for the transcripts. (ALevy, is now covering the Idaho4 murders.) They even had a good discussion re; the discrepancy noted, between them, and A Levy, about JW stating he'd looked under DR's door. Yet, on cross, there's no doors closed in DR's room. Her cell phone lit up her face. She gasped when she saw him. Yes, JW is a liar/weaving his own story. It's like it's his very own story, he's crafting for a movie ( if you heard the leaked version). A huge discrepancy but, after having the entire information, I felt comfortable, that he was just living in his own little world.

BBM

From what I remember, I'll try to paraphrase and hopefully I can explain it right.

DR'S place had a room that was "added on" so there were 2 ways/doors to enter/exit her room. That might be the discrepancy in JW testimony. But just pure speculation IMO.

 

[Dudly]

The version I was privy to, I felt was valid. I felt this way for several reasons; It's a well-respected site. A member of the Stone family was in the conversation thread, more than once, and they had sat through the trial, and I saw no objections to anything, the site has discussed. They are sponsored by a major online shopping company. I don't see Angenette Levy, who unless I'm mistaken, is approved here, doing a chat with the site, and the individual who was in the trial room during JW's and AW's testimony, who was also the individual who paid for the transcripts. (ALevy, is now covering the Idaho4 murders.) They even had a good discussion re; the discrepancy noted, between them, and A Levy, about JW stating he'd looked under DR's door. Yet, on cross, there's no doors closed in DR's room. Her cell phone lit up her face. She gasped when she saw him. Yes, JW is a liar/weaving his own story. It's like it's his very own story, he's crafting for a movie ( if you heard the leaked version). A huge discrepancy but, after having the entire information, I felt comfortable, that he was just living in his own little world.

A compulsive liar starts to believe their lies. I knew someone very well that would tell the biggest BS stories about things they did in the presence of people whom knew it was not true.
When liars make up a story on the fly, they don’t recall all they said. That is why the Ws have varying versions of what happened. And you have this:
Josef Gobbels, Hiltler’s Minister of Propaganda, said, tell a lie, the bigger the better, enough times and it becomes truth.
This seems to work with politicians. lol

 

[rsd1200]

I don't remember about AW's letter to FW. Can you fill us in? Do you know where this came up and what Angela wrote?

Thanks!

Great points:

"I think when they burned down their last home, the elder W's had enough. AW whined and moaned about having to work for her mil after she and her husband had provided a home for her son, AW, and her grandkids for over 20 years. Then the grandchildren start bringing in women, so she's looking at three generations now."

It came out during the trial. I can't go into the whole thing b/c of the approval process but it was the one that a portion was leaked about her "feeling so lost". OH MY. I'm just gonna say that woman already has the wording and the scamming down pat. I hope FW sees through it all. She is her dil so I can see putting enough on her commissary for basics like underwear and toothpaste, but she probably wrote the exact same letter to her own mother and just changed the names. I think AW goes easier on females. JM2 I can't stand AW. She's a horrible person.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

From what I remember, I'll try to paraphrase and hopefully I can explain it right.

DR'S place had a room that was "added on" so there were 2 ways/doors to enter/exit her room. That might be the discrepancy in JW testimony. But just pure speculation IMO.

I think it was also why they bought the crib. They layout was so confusing, it had been added onto, and they were doing some renovation, IIRC, so it took LE a long time to clear each room and to find CR2. Someone finally had to draw them a layout of the trailer home. (this was told by an individual who attended the trial and saw the photos, the death scenes, etc...)

 

[Dudly]

I think it was also why they bought the crib. They layout was so confusing, it had been added onto, and they were doing some renovation, IIRC, so it took LE a long time to clear each room and to find CR2. Someone finally had to draw them a layout of the trailer home. (this was told by an individual who attended the trial and saw the photos, the death scenes, etc...)

I never did figure out if they bought a new crib or he reassembled the one that SW used when she was little. Either way, it was an excuse to check out the house and find out where people would be in the house.
Was it ever explained how the dogs were supposedly used for spying on the Rhodens? I remember it being mentioned at one time.

 

[Cool Cats]

I never did figure out if they bought a new crib or he reassembled the one that SW used when she was little. Either way, it was an excuse to check out the house and find out where people would be in the house.
Was it ever explained how the dogs were supposedly used for spying on the Rhodens? I remember it being mentioned at one time.

Merry Christmas Dudly and all!

According to the indictment they studied the Rhoden's surveillance methods including the dogs.

It has been written to sound like surveillance was put on the dogs but what it means is that the Wagners studied the Rhoden's security and that would include studying what dogs they had and information about the dogs.

The Wagners did not put security devices on the dogs.

We know how they got past Chris Sr's dogs but I don't think it ever came out how they got past Dana's dog or dogs and Kenny's dog Brownie, who Kendra adopted.

Not sure if Leonard Manley was talking about the dogs at Chris's or at Danas?

"Whoever done it knows the family, there were two dogs there that would eat you up," said Manley.

 

[rsd1200]

I never did figure out if they bought a new crib or he reassembled the one that SW used when she was little. Either way, it was an excuse to check out the house and find out where people would be in the house.
Was it ever explained how the dogs were supposedly used for spying on the Rhodens? I remember it being mentioned at one time.

The dogs didn't pose a problem for them at all. CR2's dogs probably knew them well. KR''s dog didn't even wake up iirc.
Probably elderly. The only hitch, was FR's hounds barking and that didn't deter them, and apparently never woke anyone inside (hounds become background noise after a while). I think by surveilling and the dogs just meant learning their habits, if they were truly vicious, etc... Most of these dogs had been around either JW or GW3 more than once. JM2

Hope you, and all here, are having a warm, safe, and enjoyable day today.

 

[Seattle1]

I don't doubt you at all. Jake is a murderer, so it's not really a far stretch that he'd lie. That's why I had wanted to hear or see a copy o, his testimony. I now, even more, consider the deal with AW far too forgiving but that's just me.

I only think AW would have wanted K because JW claimed the child to be his, and AW believed him or wanted to believe him and I'm sure he'd have raised the child if HMR had come back to him. Until that night.

I'll never believe that the FB Posts/arguments, in the week or so leading up to the murders, didn't have something to do with setting it all in motion. I believe in the basics of his story and that is about all. Same with AW. She's a piece of work. Manipulation oozes out of her. He had to go through with the DNA b/c it would look weird after he'd claimed the child was his if he then became disinterested in going through with the DNA test.

AW buying her that crib, and JW putting it together was just a way to get in to DR's new place, and get a good layout of the new home. Jm2 He had reason to be everywhere in there. I may be totally off base, but why else would they buy the crib? Even if they 100% knew the child was his, they knew it wasn't going to be used very long. A ruse.

^^bbm
The crib was Sophia's

Yes, this all seemed to be common knowledge, including during the trial. Recall, also, that Jake admitted he wanted to get custody of K because he wanted K and S to grow up together.

^^rsbbm

I agree that Jake Wagner wanted baby K and Sophia to grow up together.

I thought it very clear that Hanna May told all including Jake that CG was the infant's baby daddy, and any earlier claims by Jake were intended to manipulate the victim as he did even before Hanna May gave birth to Sophia.

It was also Corey H that was with Hanna May when she gave birth to baby K. Jake continued with the manipulation at the hospital telling Corey the infant had a "Wagner toe."

I don't recall any testimony under oath where Jake or Angela Wagner claimed Jake was the biological father of baby K. IMO, if AW or Jake truly believed infant K was Jake's child, they would not have missed the birth at the hospital and they would have never left the state without her in tow.

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward

PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: April says she was at Dana's the Wednesday before the murders. Had been in that new house several times - made the curtains, helped paint the kitchen.
6:56 AM · Sep 30, 2022

PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: April says she saw Jake Wagner at Dana's house the Wednesday before the murders. He was showing Hanna how to set up a baby bed for Kylie - it had been their daughter together Sophia's.
6:59 AM · Sep 30, 2022

'He Was Very Controlling': Jake Wagner Abused Victim Hanna May Rhoden Before Pike Co. Massacre, Relatives Testify

Testimony in a Pike County Massacre murder trial included Rhoden family members testifying that ex-boyfriend Jake Wagner was abusive to victim Hanna May Rhoden.

lawandcrime.com

Corey Holdren was dating Hanna May when she was murdered. He recalled Hanna May telling him she was pregnant with Charlie Gilley’s baby a week after they started dating. He said they split up but then got back together.

“She was the best thing that ever happened to me,” Holdren said tearfully.

Holdren said he agreed to raise Kylie as his own and that he was the first person to hold the newborn after Hanna May gave birth. He testified that Jake Wagner brought Sophia to the hospital to see her new baby sister.

[..]

Holdren said Jake Wagner held Kylie in the hospital as if she was his child.

Holdren also testified that Wagner made a comment about Kylie’s toe and that the Wagners had a family trait: a hammer toe. Holdren said Wagner commented that Kylie’s toe was a Wagner toe.

Holdren noted that aside from the birth of Kyle, he met Jake Wagner on two other occasions — at Sophia’s second birthday party at a firehouse and a week before the murders. Holdren said Jake Wagner called Hanna May and “went off” on her because she was late and wanted to know where Sophia was. Holdren said Wagner showed up at his home and sat on his couch.

Holdren said Hanna May had told him that Jake Wagner once kept her in her room for six months and wouldn’t allow her to see her father when he came to his home.

“He was very controlling,” Holdren said of Wagner.

Holdren cried as he said Hanna May was a “hard worker and a great mom.”

Holdren recalled the last time that he saw Hanna May: the evening of April 21, 2016. He said Hanna May wanted to get out of the house and do something; accordingly, his sister watched the newborn Kylie. They went fishing with Kendra Rhoden and her boyfriend. He said Hanna May planned to stay with him that night at his home, so she went home to get her breast pump. However, she later texted him that she was tired and decided to stay at her home on Union Hill Road. Their last communication was a text exchange in which they told one another they loved each other.

 

[Seattle1]

I don't remember about AW's letter to FW. Can you fill us in? Do you know where this came up and what Angela wrote?

The letter by AW to her MIL (FW) was discussed by the defense when AW testified against her son.

Pike County murder trial: Angela told the prosecution bloody shoeprints belonged to George

The mother of a man accused of killing eight people in Pike County in 2016 will continue testifying Wednesday, but opted out of being recorded by the media, so her testimony won't be broadcast.

www.wcpo.com

Nash brought up a letter Angela wrote to her mother-in-law after she was arrested, asking her to read it aloud for the jury.

"There is so much no one will ever know," read Angela.

In the letter, she'd told Fredericka that everything she'd pleaded guilty to was a lie; Angela clarified this was because, after the deal, she'd forgotten why she faced charges for things like burglary and firearms charges when she hadn't been at the scenes of the murders. She told Nash she reconvened with her lawyers, who explained her charges to her again, which she now understands.

The intent of the writing her mother-in-law, Angela said, had been to try and explain herself to Fredericka, so the matriarch wasn't upset about her cooperation with the state.

Like John Parker had with Jake, Nash questioned Angela about whether she could be believed, since cooperating with the prosecution meant she had to testify to their liking in order for the death specifications to be dropped from the charges faced by the family. Angela pushed back, insisting that regardless of her plea deal, she was telling the truth.

She'd dragged her own mother into an octuple homicide case, Nash pointed out, and made her complicit in the crimes, asking her to lie to police for the family.

"I did not talk her into it, I just did not talk her out of it," said Angela.

 

[rsd1200]

^^bbm
The crib was Sophia's

^^rsbbm

I agree that Jake Wagner wanted baby K and Sophia to grow up together.

I thought it very clear that Hanna May told all including Jake that CG was the infant's baby daddy, and any earlier claims by Jake were intended to manipulate the victim as he did even before Hanna May gave birth to Sophia.

It was also Corey H that was with Hanna May when she gave birth to baby K. Jake continued with the manipulation at the hospital telling Corey the infant had a "Wagner toe."

I don't recall any testimony under oath where Jake or Angela Wagner claimed Jake was the biological father of baby K. IMO, if AW or Jake truly believed infant K was Jake's child, they would not have missed the birth at the hospital and they would have never left the state without her in tow.

<snip fro brevity>

Who bought S's crib? Whichever way it was re; the crib, I still believe it to be a ruse, to offer to put it together, as a way to get inside access to the new house, for the layout. He started it and he continued it til it no longer furthered him.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, this all seemed to be common knowledge, including during the trial. Recall, also, that Jake admitted he wanted to get custody of K because he wanted K and S to grow up together.

IIRC, Jake was pretty clear about his intentions re K during the trial. It's also why he showed up at the hospital after the murders, trying to get K. Was AW also involved in this plotting for K? IIRC, the testimony supported that, though on a lesser level. My recollection was that she supported Jake getting K. They discussed this, IIRC.

Re seeing a copy of Jake's testimony, I thought someone had already procured that. IIRC, there was a performance of the trial dialogue on a podcast. Are there no verified copies or links to this transcript available to the public? The link you folks shared here apparently was not a good one. Are there fake or altered copies out there? Is there a verified version of the transcript available to the public online? Keep in mind, there may be some evidence the state will not reveal publicly before or during Billy's trial.

I shared no links here, nor transcripts on here. I did share initials of the site where I listened, the individual was in the courtroom, reported on the courtroom activities, testimony, etc..., and purchased the transcript themselves. My post was removed. Has the one you filed in the records, been verified by WS? Does WS have verifiers for this? Who? I'd like to see that one submitted. Does any of them cut the mustard? or No. JM2.