OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #53

[Cool Cats]

You bring up a very good point. I think we all have naturally assumed the murders happened in the exact same sequence as the victims were found. Until more is known about the estimated TOD in the Autopsy Reports, we really can't assume anything.

I also think we all have assumed the murders (with the exception of CRsr) were very quick. Sadly, they may not have been.

JMO, MOO - not going any further down that road until there is evidence to support it.............

I have spent alot of time trying to find out if Chris Sr was more decomposed than the others because he was actually shot first, or if it is because he had 9 gunshot wounds to his head, torso, and extremities when all the others had less gunshot wounds and only above the neck, (under chin, side of face, top of head).

My research indicates that any wounds post mortem introduce bacteria so the more wounds a body has, the more accelerated decomposition will be. Because Chris Sr. had more gunshot wounds, and to more extensive areas of his body, it is not far fetched for him to be in a more decomposed state, even if shot at relatively the same time as the others.

If indeed this is the senario, then yes, it is wholly possible that Kenneth Rhoden was shot first and the attacks on UHR occurred after.

To know this fully we will need the Wagner cases to go to trial.
Then we can learn the coroner's findings and learn the true order the victims were targeted that night.

PS. Good theories and sleuthing everyone!

..2 Cents..

 

[Puzzles8]

I have spent alot of time trying to find out if Chris Sr was more decomposed than the others because he was actually shot first, or if it is because he had 9 gunshot wounds to his head, torso, and extremities when all the others had less gunshots wounds and only above the neck, (under chin, side of face, top of head).

My research indicates that any wounds post mortem introduce bacteria so the more wounds a body has, the more accelerated decomposition will be. Because Chris Sr. had more gunshot wounds, and to more extensive areas of his body, it is not far fetched for him to be in a more decomposed state, even if shot at relatively the same time as the others.

If indeed this is the senario, then yes, it is wholly possible that Kenneth Rhoden was shot first and the attacks on UHR occurred after.

To know this fully we will need the Wagner cases to go to trial. Then we can understand the coroner's findings and learn the true order the victims were targeted that night.

PS. Good theories and sleuthing everyone!

..2 Cents..

I also noted in the tiny bit of the AR's (that were not retracted), CRsr had significant heart disease and was well on his way to a heart attack. IMO

I am not (in any way) a health care professional, but I wonder if CRsr's diminished heart pumping capacity might have also been a factor in his rapid decomposition.

JMO, MOO

Nurses & other health care professionals, please fact check me here!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

IMO I think KR was killed first. I have always believed they either needed something he had to gain access to CRsr, a key, cell phone, something. I don't disagree with anyone else's theory this what I have always thought. I feel like killing KR played a bigger part than we realize without seeing the evidence.

I read once Bobby Jo had a interview and made a commitment that Kenneth could control the cameras from his camper if that’s the case the Wagners went to Kenneth and shut the cameras down, just a thought!

 

[Cool Cats]

I also noted in the tiny bit of the AR's (that were not retracted), CRsr had significant heart disease and was well on his way to a heart attack. IMO

I am not (in any way) a health care professional, but I wonder if CRsr's diminished heart pumping capacity might have also been a factor in his rapid decomposition.

JMO, MOO

Nurses & other health care professionals, please fact check me here!

Hey Puzz!
This is the first I am hearing of this. I do not believe , in my opinion , that ?!

I also noted in the tiny bit of the AR's (that were not retracted), CRsr had significant heart disease and was well on his way to a heart attack. IMO

I am not (in any way) a health care professional, but I wonder if CRsr's diminished heart pumping capacity might have also been a factor in his rapid decomposition.

JMO, MOO

Nurses & other health care professionals, please fact check me here!

seriously? Did not know.. Will check

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I pray that all the pieces that fell thru the cracks in the LE investigation to be made whole this year coming, because of the Wagners family lies to avoid justice & for the Manley family to be blamed of killing daughter, sister and grandchildren may the Rhodens, Manley and Gilley families have a blessed Holiday and that all the food poisoned fruit cake find it’s way to JW, GW4, AW & BW, you 4 need to sit in your cell every waking moment praying to the good lord for forgiveness of what you took away from the Rhodens, Manley and Gilleys families, Shame on you Wagners, murder was the wrong way to deal with anything IMO

 

[Dudly]

You bring up a very good point. I think we all have naturally assumed the murders happened in the exact same sequence as the victims were found. Until more is known about the estimated TOD in the Autopsy Reports, we really can't assume anything.

I also think we all have assumed the murders (with the exception of CRsr) were very quick. Sadly, they may not have been.

JMO, MOO - not going any further down that road until there is evidence to support it.............

I agree the more accurate time of death may be very telling as to how it all happened. All assumptions may be wrong

 

[Berrybell]

I read once Bobby Jo had a interview and made a commitment that Kenneth could control the cameras from his camper if that’s the case the Wagners went to Kenneth and shut the cameras down, just a thought!

Wow Johnny that is a very good point and one I had not considered and would explain the need to take Kenny out.

 

[Cool Cats]

*******Thinking of the Manleys, Rhodens and Gilleys Christmas Eve*******

• 
  The Victim Rights Act (includes family/siblings of victims) grants victims the following rights:
  • Right to protection from the accused.
  • Right to notification.
  • Right to attend proceedings.
  • Right to speak at criminal justice proceedings.
  • Right to consult with the prosecuting attorney.
  • Right to restitution.
  • Right to a speedy trial.
  • Right to be treated with fairness, dignity and respect.
• Ohio Crime Victim Justice Center
  
• @OCVJusticeC
  
  Free legal assistance to ensure crime victims’ voices are heard, their rights enforced, and the criminal process is fair & balanced.

 

[Merrygirl]

I also noted in the tiny bit of the AR's (that were not retracted), CRsr had significant heart disease and was well on his way to a heart attack. IMO

I am not (in any way) a health care professional, but I wonder if CRsr's diminished heart pumping capacity might have also been a factor in his rapid decomposition.

JMO, MOO

Nurses & other health care professionals, please fact check me here!

‘I’m a nurse (I have applied to WS to be certified)—IMO it would not make any difference. If we assume only CRsr and GR were awake then the others were sleeping and their heart rates slow way down. At least we know CRsr was awake and possibly fought back. That would greatly increase his heart rate with the adrenaline rush. Even if his heart was diseased it would still pump faster or there would be blockages mentioned in certain main arteries. We’ve seen patients in ER with 90% blockages but carried out normal lives and didn’t know there was a problem. What would make a difference in decomp, assuming all were kept at the exact same conditions, would be the close proximity of the wounds together (ie—3-4 shots in the same area) or shot in the head vs shot in the abdomen or torso. I Apologize if this offends anyone but this may be a little too graphic—head wounds generally by themselves do not have as much bleeding as chest or abdominal wounds. Also, the chest and abdomen have more bacteria and the larger arteries. Blood is a feast for bacteria. Also the size & type of ammo used would also make a difference. I apologize if I’ve offended anyone. I’m just trying to help others understand.

 

[Betty P]

‘I’m a nurse (I have applied to WS to be certified)—IMO it would not make any difference. If we assume only CRsr and GR were awake then the others were sleeping and their heart rates slow way down. At least we know CRsr was awake and possibly fought back. That would greatly increase his heart rate with the adrenaline rush. Even if his heart was diseased it would still pump faster or there would be blockages mentioned in certain main arteries. We’ve seen patients in ER with 90% blockages but carried out normal lives and didn’t know there was a problem. What would make a difference in decomp, assuming all were kept at the exact same conditions, would be the close proximity of the wounds together (ie—3-4 shots in the same area) or shot in the head vs shot in the abdomen or torso. I Apologize if this offends anyone but this may be a little too graphic—head wounds generally by themselves do not have as much bleeding as chest or abdominal wounds. Also, the chest and abdomen have more bacteria and the larger arteries. Blood is a feast for bacteria. Also the size & type of ammo used would also make a difference. I apologize if I’ve offended anyone. I’m just trying to help others understand.

That's helpful information, thank you. It's puzzling and no doubt the primary reason the AG withheld details - because TOD says something about the sequence of events and is an important part of convicting the killers.

Wishing the Rhodens and Gilleys a very merry christmas. Justice is the ultimate gift. God bless.

I second this, as well. I hope the Rhoden & Gilley families (and all the friends of the victims) have a happy holiday season and a great New Year! Hopefully, 2020 will bring some justice and peace of mind for everyone affected. The pain of their loss will always be with them, but finally seeing those guilty held accountable may help lessen their burdens. Hopefully, it will also help the community heal.

 

[Berrybell]

‘I’m a nurse (I have applied to WS to be certified)—IMO it would not make any difference. If we assume only CRsr and GR were awake then the others were sleeping and their heart rates slow way down. At least we know CRsr was awake and possibly fought back. That would greatly increase his heart rate with the adrenaline rush. Even if his heart was diseased it would still pump faster or there would be blockages mentioned in certain main arteries. We’ve seen patients in ER with 90% blockages but carried out normal lives and didn’t know there was a problem. What would make a difference in decomp, assuming all were kept at the exact same conditions, would be the close proximity of the wounds together (ie—3-4 shots in the same area) or shot in the head vs shot in the abdomen or torso. I Apologize if this offends anyone but this may be a little too graphic—head wounds generally by themselves do not have as much bleeding as chest or abdominal wounds. Also, the chest and abdomen have more bacteria and the larger arteries. Blood is a feast for bacteria. Also the size & type of ammo used would also make a difference. I apologize if I’ve offended anyone. I’m just trying to help others understand.

Merry thank you for sharing your expertise with us.

 

[Loomis124]

As I looked back today at all that has taken place, Bruce Dailey seems to play a major, major part. He was Jake Wagner's attorney in the custody battle wit Hanna. He is as also related or associated with Roysters and Gormans. Google is my friend. Don't know if this is relevant to the murders and Wagners or not..
Just saying.

 

[Loomis124]

DBM

 

[Betty P]

As I looked back today at all that has taken place, Bruce Dailey seems to play a major, major part. He was Jake Wagner's attorney in the custody battle wit Hanna. He is as also related or associated with Roysters and Gormans. Google is my friend. Don't know if this is relevant to the murders and Wagners or not..
Just saying.

It's interesting how his existence and peripheral role in the custody conflict was "undiscovered" or publicly unknown for so long. The confidentiality of the custody records kept him hidden, but you have to wonder how long it took LE to interview him. Was he present in court to help JW make his case for permanent custody of S? I'll never understand why Judge Rosenberger gave JW full custody so soon after the murders, allowing the W's to take her and move to AK. He should have been considered a possible suspect in the murders at that point.

How long has Dailey lived in the area? What are his connections in the community? I have a lot of questions.

Are these the other people you referenced?

This man once got punched out by Pike County victim, and now mourns him

 

[Loomis124]

It's interesting how his existence and peripheral role in the custody conflict was "undiscovered" or publicly unknown for so long. The confidentiality of the custody records kept him hidden, but you have to wonder how long it took LE to interview him. Was he present in court to help JW make his case for permanent custody of S? I'll never understand why Judge Rosenberger gave JW full custody so soon after the murders, allowing the W's to take her and move to AK. He should have been considered a possible suspect in the murders at that point.

How long has Dailey lived in the area? What are his connections in the community? I have a lot of questions.

Are these the other people you referenced?

This man once got punched out by Pike County victim, and now mourns him

One thing we know for sure. He ran against Junk in 2012...

Local attorney, Piketon solicitor seeks prosecutor job

 

[Cool Cats]

It's interesting how his existence and peripheral role in the custody conflict was "undiscovered" or publicly unknown for so long. The confidentiality of the custody records kept him hidden, but you have to wonder how long it took LE to interview him. Was he present in court to help JW make his case for permanent custody of S? I'll never understand why Judge Rosenberger gave JW full custody so soon after the murders, allowing the W's to take her and move to AK. He should have been considered a possible suspect in the murders at that point.

How long has Dailey lived in the area? What are his connections in the community? I have a lot of questions.

Are these the other people you referenced?

This man once got punched out by Pike County victim, and now mourns him

Good call. Not sure what Loomis means but there are 2 Gormans connected to the Rhodens.

Bruce Russell Dailey

• Waverly, OH
  Dailey Law Office
  
  Po Box 465
  229 E North St
  Waverly, OH, 45690-0465
• Licensed for 22 years

About Bruce
Bruce Dailey practices out of Waverly, OH and attended South Texas College of Law Houston. This attorney has been licensed for 23 years and handles cases in Elder Law, Probate, Family.

PRACTICE AREAS
1. Family: 25%
2. Probate: 25%
3. Elder law: 25%
4. Unknown: 25%

• 
• Bruce Dailey
• Local attorney, Bruce Dailey

 

[Betty P]

Good call.

Bruce Russell Dailey

• Waverly, OH
  Dailey Law Office
  
  Po Box 465
  229 E North St
  Waverly, OH, 45690-0465
• Licensed for 22 years

About Bruce
Bruce Dailey practices out of Waverly, OH and attended South Texas College of Law Houston. This attorney has been licensed for 23 years and handles cases in Elder Law, Probate, Family.

PRACTICE AREAS
1. Family: 25%
2. Probate: 25%
3. Elder law: 25%
4. Unknown: 25%

Correction to my earlier post: It doesn't sound like he would be considered a suspect, per se. But he definitely should have been considered something akin to a witness - someone who was likely to have crucial information about JW, the custody battle and the events that took place before and after the Rhoden Family Massacre.

LE should have been digging into the custody fight, talking to the attorneys, judges, court employees, etc.

 

[Cool Cats]

Correction to my earlier post: It doesn't sound like he would be considered a suspect, per se. But he definitely should have been considered something akin to a witness - someone who was likely to have crucial information about JW, the custody battle and the events that took place before and after the Rhoden Family Massacre.

LE should have been digging into the custody fight, talking to the attorneys, judges, court employees, etc.

I think we will be surprised when we hear the witnesses at trial. Notice that certain family members have not been seen in the court gallery. I wager they will be some of the first to be called as witnesses to testify as to Jake's violent aggressive tendencies toward custody and control.

I am waiting for Deering's ruling on this motion, the motion to allow evidence at trial to come in, in regards to Jake being violent before the murders.

***Note (2 Cents) he acts very jovial in court = Smile Smile Smile
He wants to give the distinct impression he wouldn't hurt a flea.
This is strange, maybe he wants to impress the judge? The jury in some way? ***

“There is some evidence Mr. Wagner was violent with one of the victims prior to the murders,” said state Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa, seemingly indicating the prosecution wants to present that alleged incident as part of the case against Wagner.

As one example of the motions argued Tuesday, defense attorney Gregory Meyers asked the court not to allow the prosecution to mention his client’s alleged previous behavior during his murder trial.

Past suspect behaviors, grisly murder scene photos may play parts in Rhoden trials - Portsmouth Daily Times

If the witnesses can testify that Jake got violent in regards to custody that would go miles in establishing motive, the custody motive.
The Jury needing to understand a motive is critical in my opinion.
...2 Cents...

 

[eanspratt]

It's interesting how his existence and peripheral role in the custody conflict was "undiscovered" or publicly unknown for so long. The confidentiality of the custody records kept him hidden, but you have to wonder how long it took LE to interview him. Was he present in court to help JW make his case for permanent custody of S? I'll never understand why Judge Rosenberger gave JW full custody so soon after the murders, allowing the W's to take her and move to AK. He should have been considered a possible suspect in the murders at that point.

How long has Dailey lived in the area? What are his connections in the community? I have a lot of questions.

Are these the other people you referenced?

This man once got punched out by Pike County victim, and now mourns him

I’m of the opinion that the forged custody documents were fabricated to secure custody after the murders. If an attorney were to walk into court and submit that there were intentions before the murders for Hanna Mae to allow JW full custody of the child. Now an attorney stands before the judge with documents and anyone that could differ is dead, what is the judge to do. I never have learned if these documents were actually submitted and if so when and where. If my assumptions are known to be incorrect please correct me. All speculation on my part.

 

[Loomis124]

Correction to my earlier post: It doesn't sound like he would be considered a suspect, per se. But he definitely should have been considered something akin to a witness - someone who was likely to have crucial information about JW, the custody battle and the events that took place before and after the Rhoden Family Massacre.

LE should have been digging into the custody fight, talking to the attorneys, judges, court employees, etc.

Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond to your earlier post, BettyP. I agree he is not a suspect. But I do believe he became a part of the investigation the moment JW and his family did. I don't know at what point that was. IMO, LE was onto the Wagners much sooner than JM's arrest. Does anyone remember the orange Cadillac?

Based on the overall "reaction" to the Dailey files' discovery, I think this attorney and those files are paramount to the motive in these murders.

I don't know how long he has been in the area. His wife is from there.

Me being the digger I am, anything can be found online these days. I can't always connect the info in a sweet line, but I sure can put 2 and 2 together, and not even half as well as my fellow sleuthers. And I will say, I am not privy to ANY inside information, which gives me a strong advantage, in that I am clean as a whistle, should ACrun my profile tomorrow.

The Dailey files were stopped dead in their tracks. Wonder why?