OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

[Cool Cats]

I am looking forward for this to get going.

Question as the trials start will the make the autopsies public?

In my opinion no. The Ohio Supreme Court adjudicated that reporters were allowed to look at the preliminary autopsy reports and photos which they did and reported on.

Court allows reporters to inspect Rhoden family autopsies | 10tv.com

The full autopsy reports will never be released because the families have said they do not want the autopsies revealed to the public.

Coroner: Family of 8 slain feared release of autopsy details

As for what the Jury sees, all Wagner attorneys have filed a motion to keep the crime scene photos out of the trial.

Another defense motion, one which has been filed by other defendants in the murder cases, asked the court to bar prosecutors from using grisly or explicit photos from the murder scenes.

“Death is not pretty,” Canepa said, arguing using possibly upsetting or explicit photos is likely to, unfortunately, prove necessary to the prosecution’s cases.

From Jake's Docket:

DEFENDANT'S MOTION #20 MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE GRUESOME OR REDUNDANT PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE DECEASED FILED

 

[Antimony]

If those autopsies are used at trial as evidence, I do not see how they could be kept from the public.
The Wagner's are on trial, Not the Kennedy's.

 

[Cool Cats]

If those autopsies are used at trial as evidence, I do not see how they could be kept from the public.
The Wagner's are on trial, Not the Kennedy's.

Good point.

The autopsies are a big part of the evidence and your probably right that what ever comes out in the public trial from the autopsies the public will know. But just to release the full autopsies in the press will never happen. Ever. It's my opinion because that's not what the families want as I mentioned in my previous post.

I do believe that crime scene photos shown to a Jury can be kept away from the public. I would be surprised if we see these, out of respect for the families. Not fair to the families for those photos of their loved ones being plastered all over the internet and I pray this never happens.

 

[Cool Cats]

Such a good photo so thought I'd share it:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtA0plDWwAcIJjC?format=jpg&name=large

This is what GW4 keeps looking up at, including at his last hearing, in Judge Deering's courtroom. In my opinion GW4 looks intimidated. Robin in on the left, Tony on right.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

ENTRY -- THE ENVELOPE TO WHICH THIS JOURNAL ENTRY IS ATTACHED CONTAINS 2 MOTIONS AND 2 JOURNAL ENTRIES FILED UNDER SEAL WITH THE JUDGE OF THIS COURT ON JUNE 30, 2020; IT IS ORDERED THAT THE CLERK OF COURTS SHALL HOLD THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE UNDER SEAL, AND THAT THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE OPENED AND THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED, EXCEPT UNDER ORDER OF THIS COURT OR UPON THE ORDER OF A COURT OF JURISDICTION SUPERIOR TO THIS COURT

Any of you Sluthers on here that knows a little bit about LAW! I would really like to know what is in that letter????

 

[Cool Cats]

ENTRY -- THE ENVELOPE TO WHICH THIS JOURNAL ENTRY IS ATTACHED CONTAINS 2 MOTIONS AND 2 JOURNAL ENTRIES FILED UNDER SEAL WITH THE JUDGE OF THIS COURT ON JUNE 30, 2020; IT IS ORDERED THAT THE CLERK OF COURTS SHALL HOLD THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE UNDER SEAL, AND THAT THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE OPENED AND THE CONTENTS OF THE ENVELOPE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED, EXCEPT UNDER ORDER OF THIS COURT OR UPON THE ORDER OF A COURT OF JURISDICTION SUPERIOR TO THIS COURT

Any of you Sluthers on here that knows a little bit about LAW! I would really like to know what is in that letter????

It's just an envelope that contains 2 motions and 2 journal entries. Instead of posting the Motions and the Journal Entries on GW4's Court Docket like is normally
done, for some reason the Court wants to keep these 4 Documents private and not put them on the Docket where everyone can see them.

When they are revealed, whenever the Court is planning to reveal them, then they will be put on the Docket.

But I agree with you, I desperately want to know what these 2 Motions and 2 Journal Entries say. Obviously it has to do with GW4's Case.

One guess is they have to do with his Bond Motion Hearing but that is just one idea, but it would be great if it all came out at his August 31st Bond Hearing but I would be surprised if it did... Well one can wish...

... 2 Cents Only ...

 

[Johnny B Bad]

It's just an envelope that contains 2 motions and 2 journal entries. Instead of posting the Motions and the Journal Entries on GW4's Court Docket like is normally
done, for some reason the Court wants to keep these 4 Documents private and not put them on the Docket where everyone can see them.

When they are revealed, whenever the Court is planning to reveal them, then they will be put on the Docket.

But I agree with you, I desperately want to know what these 2 Motions and 2 Journal Entries say. Obviously it has to do with GW4's Case.

One guess is they have to do with his Bond Motion Hearing but that is just one idea, but it would be great if it all came out at his August 31st Bond Hearing but I would be surprised if it did... Well one can wish...

... 2 Cents Only ...

Those Defense Attorneys are really using the media to show doubt for the Wagners, it seems to me that the 8 Defense Attorney’s are working as a team right now, it really going to be a fight for the Prosecution 8 against 3!!!!

 

[Dudly]

Those Defense Attorneys are really using the media to show doubt for the Wagners, it seems to me that the 8 Defense Attorney’s are working as a team right now, it really going to be a fight for the Prosecution 8 against 3!!!!

What are Defense Attorneys doing to show doubt for the Wagners?
What makes you think they are working as a team?
What does the Defense have that will make it fight for the Prosecution?

 

[OhioBlues]

How are the Defense Attorneys using the media to show doubt for the Wagners?

 

[Clair Louise]

Those Defense Attorneys are really using the media to show doubt for the Wagners, it seems to me that the 8 Defense Attorney’s are working as a team right now, it really going to be a fight for the Prosecution 8 against 3!!!!

Except that the defence has only legal points to object to and the prosecution have evidence.
I am surprised that they got away with this for so long. <modsnip>

 

[Johnny B Bad]

What are Defense Attorneys doing to show doubt for the Wagners?
What makes you think they are working as a team?
What does the Defense have that will make it fight for the Prosecution?

Well Dudly. I might be wrong but from the way it has all been presented in the news and in the court so far, the Prosecution has showed nothing but fact on the way the murders has happened, forensic scientific accusation, and DNA that the prosecution said they have, the Defense Attorney’s are doing what they get paid for is to defend but the defense has not said nothing yet that proven the Wagners Innocent but the word of mouth (Their Innocent) . The defense for Fredericka Wagner put on some kind of mockery show during her trial, looking and talking toward the Rhodens/Gilley families that if I where Judge I would have had to told Mr Owen to direct his question to the court not the family of the victims. Have any of you Sluthers saw anything different in the last 2 years of court other than (How do yo plead, Where Innocent) and if James Owen get back involved with Billy Wagner trial it’s hard to tell what kind of show will go on, JMO

 

[Betty P]

In my opinion no. The Ohio Supreme Court adjudicated that reporters were allowed to look at the preliminary autopsy reports and photos which they did and reported on.

Court allows reporters to inspect Rhoden family autopsies | 10tv.com

The full autopsy reports will never be released because the families have said they do not want the autopsies revealed to the public.

Coroner: Family of 8 slain feared release of autopsy details

As for what the Jury sees, all Wagner attorneys have filed a motion to keep the crime scene photos out of the trial.

Another defense motion, one which has been filed by other defendants in the murder cases, asked the court to bar prosecutors from using grisly or explicit photos from the murder scenes.

“Death is not pretty,” Canepa said, arguing using possibly upsetting or explicit photos is likely to, unfortunately, prove necessary to the prosecution’s cases.

From Jake's Docket:

DEFENDANT'S MOTION #20 MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE GRUESOME OR REDUNDANT PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE DECEASED FILED

The jury will see the photos of the victims and crime scene. There are decades of legal precedent allowing this.

It's absolutely necessary to demonstrate the motive for such horrific acts. It goes to the motive for the premeditation, the planning, etc. It demonstrates vividly the results of a sick family filled with rage over their failure to control a young girl and her children.

It shows the complete lack of respect for any human life, including that of the children who lay for hours, screaming, in pools of their parents blood. That's an extreme kind of sickness and disregard for human suffering that these animals had for their victims.

JMO

IANAL, but here's a link to the federal rules of evidence on legal decisions. Generally, gruesome evidence is allowed if the probative value of the evidence outweighs any prejudicial impact on the jury.

If the trials are televised for the public, they probably won't show them, only the jury will see them.

Impact of Gruesome Photographic Evidence on Legal Decisions: A Meta-Analysis

 

[Betty P]

Well Dudly. I might be wrong but from the way it has all been presented in the news and in the court so far, the Prosecution has showed nothing but fact on the way the murders has happened, forensic scientific accusation, and DNA that the prosecution said they have, the Defense Attorney’s are doing what they get paid for is to defend but the defense has not said nothing yet that proven the Wagners Innocent but the word of mouth (Their Innocent) . The defense for Fredericka Wagner put on some kind of mockery show during her trial, looking and talking toward the Rhodens/Gilley families that if I where Judge I would have had to told Mr Owen to direct his question to the court not the family of the victims. Have any of you Sluthers saw anything different in the last 2 years of court other than (How do yo plead, Where Innocent) and if James Owen get back involved with Billy Wagner trial it’s hard to tell what kind of show will go on, JMO

On the defense side, there will be

• Some desperate showboating,
  
• Attacks on the victims, who have no ability to defend themselves
  
• red herrings to vaguely implicate other people as murderers (most likely people now deceased and unable to defend themselves)
  
• red herrings trying to implicate shadowy gangs and cartels (this dovetails with trashing the reputations of the deceased victims)

There won't be

• Alibis for the killers activities
• Witnesses to testify truthfully that they were with the Wagners at the time of the murders
• Hard evidence they were not involved in the massacre
• Explanations for why they were hacking digital accounts of the victims and spying on them for years before and after the massacre

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The jury will see the photos of the victims and crime scene. There are decades of legal precedent allowing this.

It's absolutely necessary to demonstrate the motive for such horrific acts. It goes to the motive for the premeditation, the planning, etc. It demonstrates vividly the results of a sick family filled with rage over their failure to control a young girl and her children.

It shows the complete lack of respect for any human life, including that of the children who lay for hours, screaming, in pools of their parents blood. That's an extreme kind of sickness and disregard for human suffering that these animals had for their victims.

If I was a Family Member I would show exactly what the Killers are capable of doing, I would release every bit of photos and information from the autopsy reports to show everyone that Monster do Exists, JMO

 

[Betty P]

If I was a Family Member I would show exactly what the Killers are capable of doing, I would release every bit of photos and information from the autopsy reports to show everyone that Monster do Exists, JMO

I'm not sure all the autopsy report photos would be necessary at trial. But the jury does need to see the surviving children, the crime scene, the damage done to the victims, etc. Anything that demonstrates how this family was massacred in their sleep with no chance to defend themselves.

I'm sure the family would want everything shown that's necessary to secure convictions. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

The jury will see the photos of the victims and crime scene. There are decades of legal precedent allowing this.

It's absolutely necessary to demonstrate the motive for such horrific acts. It goes to the motive for the premeditation, the planning, etc. It demonstrates vividly the results of a sick family filled with rage over their failure to control a young girl and her children.

It shows the complete lack of respect for any human life, including that of the children who lay for hours, screaming, in pools of their parents blood. That's an extreme kind of sickness and disregard for human suffering that these animals had for their victims.

JMO

IANAL, but here's a link to the federal rules of evidence on legal decisions. Generally, gruesome evidence is allowed if the probative value of the evidence outweighs any prejudicial impact on the jury.

If the trials are televised for the public, they probably won't show them, only the jury will see them.

Impact of Gruesome Photographic Evidence on Legal Decisions: A Meta-Analysis

Yes the Jury will see crime scene photos, I meant that we the public won't see them in my opinion. That way they can't be put all over the internet which would be horrendous for the families.

And all 4 of the Wagner's attorneys filed Motions to keep photos out, but Canepa argued against that and said that she wanted to do it on a case by case basis, discuss it during trial as it comes up. In other words, there's photos to put up during trial but they will discuss it first with the defense and the judge will decide what photos to let in. I need to go back and listen to the exact wording of what she said in that hearing to remember it correctly.

 

[joe jones]

Unfortunately from all I have read I dont think the state has a very strong case, I think they have some circumstantial evidence but little to no solid forensic evidence. in my opinion a good defence team has much to argue for their aquittal, the drugs will play a huge part in the defence case. I am on the fence as to whether I think it was the people charged who did it. One thing I am sure of is that the murders were committed by people very familiar with the family and the residences.

 

[Cool Cats]

Unfortunately from all I have read I dont think the state has a very strong case, I think they have some circumstantial evidence but little to no solid forensic evidence. in my opinion a good defence team has much to argue for their aquittal, the drugs will play a huge part in the defence case. I am on the fence as to whether I think it was the people charged who did it. One thing I am sure of is that the murders were committed by people very familiar with the family and the residences.

In a response to Wagner’s attorneys, prosecutors wrote that a search warrant executed on one of the Wagner’s property revealed the existence of .22 caliber shell casings that matched .22 caliber shell casings found at two crime scenes on Union Hill Road.

The filing notes the shell casings found at the Wagner property and at the crime scenes came from Remington rimfire .22 caliber ammunition and both sets of shell casings had matching “firing pin impressions.”

Prosecutors said shoe impressions found in dried blood at the two Union Hill Road crime scenes matched shoe prints from a size 10.5 and 11 Walmart Athletic Works shoe with velcro straps.

Prosecutors said BCI agents found a receipt from the Walmart in Waverly dated April 7, 2016, during a search of the Wagner property. April 7, 2016, was 15 days before the murders. Agents obtained surveillance photos from the purchase of the Athletic Works shoes from Walmart stores that included photos of Angela Wagner buying the shoes on April 7, 2016, at the same time noted on the receipt.

Investigators combed through 1,100 tips, but the final piece of evidence that led to the indictments of the Wagner family and their arrests on Halloween were due to the finding of the gun silencer, according to then-Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine.

New facts show that the homemade gun silencer that prosecutors found was at the bottom of a well on property the Wagner’s used to own, according to court documents.

Evidence includes recordings of 13 audio and video interviews,
3D scans from each scene, as well as diagrams showing ballistic, biological and other evidence at the scenes, more than 100 aerial photos; autopsy reports and X-rays, photos of a victim's child taken at the hospital, photos from a property searched by investigators, photo of burnt VCR, 21 photos from the search of the well, another seven photos of the recovered item with an 8-page ATF firearm report, information from Maglite which can be used in gun silencers; a photo of George Wagner's tattoo; a gun list; 1,475 crime scene photos, custody messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries), 1 excel sheet from Big Bear Lake, electronic communications and wire searches, Boondock Saints video clip, Facebook screenshots; photos from other searches performed by investigators; Walmart surveillance photos and receipts, Jackson Days Inn trash pull, DNA and lab reports, ballistic reports, cell phone records, cell tower records, forged custody documents, the "Daily" report, shell casings found at the victim's homes and outside the Wagner's homes, shoe print expert's testimony, handwriting expert's testimony, witness statements, recordings from a confidential reliable source, photos and inventory from Flying Farms search, photos and inventory from Ford Excrusion search, photos and inventory and documents recovered from US 41 trailer searchs including a Black Ram 2500 search and a Gray Dodge Ram search. No alibi.

And yes, the Wagners are people not only very familiar with the family and the residences but Jake himself lived in one of the residences, had access to keys and knew the easiest entry points into the homes, and the dogs knew him well in my opinion.

Just filed court documents reveal details about evidence in Rhoden case

Pike County murders: Movie’s use of gun silencer mirrors that of slain family, evidence shows

Pike County massacre evidence list shows how investigators closed in on suspects

https://www.scribd.com/document/402565469/Angela-Wagner

https://www.scribd.com/document/396099735/Discovery

Dropbox - jake discovery.pdf - Simplify your life

Dropbox - DMS_dkt_File.pdf - Simplify your life

 

[Nanasteele]

If I was a Family Member I would show exactly what the Killers are capable of doing, I would release every bit of photos and information from the autopsy reports to show everyone that Monster do Exists, JMO

I so agree!

 

[Cool Cats]

08/19/2020 - NEW JOURNAL ENTRY -- Billy Wagner

I am quoting just information about the Discovery Evidence - this Journal Entry sums up the latest information on what is going on with the Discovery in Billy's Case.

On this 22nd day of June, 2020, this cause came on for a pre-trial hearing.
Special Prosecuting Attorney Canepa informed the Court at the pre-trial hearing that a meeting had been held between counsel for the State of Ohio and counsel for the Defendant on March 13, 2020, at the offices of the Ohio BCI&I in order to peruse the items of discovery and for counsel for the State of Ohio to provide some assistance to the Defendant's attorneys in organizing the items of discovery provided.

Special Prosecutor Canepa further indicated to the Court that following the discovery meeting on March 13, 2020, defense counsel provided Special Prosecutor Canepa with a 10-terabyte external hard drive, and Special Counsel Canepa has caused all material contained on the State of Ohio's master hard drive to be loaded from the State of Ohio's master hard drive onto the 10-terabyte external hard drive furnished by defense counsel.

As a last step in the process of furnishing discovery, Special Prosecutor Canepa next intends to make sure that all material contained on the copy of the shared hard drive furnished by the Ohio Attorney General's Office to the Prosecutor's Office on June 22, 2020, is also contained on the prosecutors' master hard drive. This step is to be completed by August 21, 2020.

If any of the material on the shared hard drive is not contained on the master hard drive, then such additional material will be furnished to the Defendant's counsel on or before August 21, 2020. Therefore, on or before August 21, 2020, the State of Ohio will furnish all discoverable material to the Defendant and shall certify that discovery is complete.

Counsel for the Defendant and counsel for the State of Ohio shall also provide the Court as soon as possible with information concerning the possibility of creating a searchable data base to facilitate using the discoverable material and presenting evidence at trial.

(Other Acts Evidence)

The Court further finds that on June 22, 2020, the State of Ohio filed an "Omnibus Identification of Discovery Provided" in this action, and that on the third page of such document, under the heading "Notice of Intention To Use Evidence," the State of Ohio indicated that pursuant to Evidence Rule 404(B)(1)(a), the State served notice of its intention to use "other acts" for any of the purposes specifically allowable under Evidence Rule 404(B).

Upon the agreement of the parties, it is hereby ORDERED that the State of Ohio shall specify to counsel for the Defendant any and all "other acts" evidence that the State of Ohio intends to use at trial in this action pursuant to Rule 404(B) on or before September 8, 2020.

"Other acts" evidence is evidence that on some other occasion the defendant, or a witness, behaved in a way that demonstrates his character. (In Billy's case I assume his past bad behaviors.)

How to Admit Other Acts Evidence.