GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Covert Operative]

One size hit Chris and the larger size hit Gary is how I think Kenneth (Gary's dad)
meant it.

Larger caliber bullets not one bullet, all 3 were large that hit Gary

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies

• Larger caliber bullets were used to kill 37-year-old Gary Rhoden.

Yes that is how it seems to me also.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes that is how it seems to me also.

Thanks for weighing in on this subject and earlier weighing in on the .40 Glock.

We both think Jake used the .22 Colt, and Gary was shot by George's
.40 Glock using larger size bullets.

 

[Covert Operative]

Thanks for weighing in on this subject and earlier weighing in on the .40 Glock.

We both think Jake used the .22 Colt, and Gary was shot by George's Glock.

I do think that but I can think of some other scenarios that could fit also when I think about it. I do think GR was shot with the Glock. We really do not know who used which gun to shoot who but from the bond hearing it leads one to think that is what happened, just that we do not know for sure.

They may have even thought that in bond hearing they had it figured out but after JW confession it may come out that it did not happen the way it seems or even how they thought. (Not that I am sure he could be believed totally)

We still do not know anything about KR other than he was shot in the eye, I wish we did.

 

[Cool Cats]

I do think that but I can think of some other scenarios that could fit also when I think about it. I do think GR was shot with the Glock. We really do not know who used which gun to shoot who but from the bond hearing it leads one to think that is what happened, just that we do not know for sure.

They may have even thought that in bond hearing they had it figured out but after JW confession it may come out that it did not happen the way it seems or even how they thought. (Not that I am sure he could be believed totally)

We still do not know anything about KR which I wish we did.

Right, KR is the biggest mystery of this Case in my estimation.

 

[Piffcat]

MO.
Wagners were scared of the Rhodens, and that would definitely have included being scared of FR, living right next door. FR was a force to be reckoned with.
Although FR was a little distance away, Trees, brush and the empty truck Trailer in between, firing outside CRsr would have been very risky. Noise carries, the hunting dogs outside would have barked, the roosters, etc.
FR could have been over there to CRsr with gun very quickly.
So, Did W 's fire outside CRsr?
If so does that mean FR and HHG had already been shot?

This is an excellent point I hadn't considered before. With all the effort put into silencers why bring a rifle that cant be stealth? I see few options
1 they killed fr and he first w the silenced weapons. They didnt care as much about silence after that since they assumed Dana's was far enough away
2 they somehow silenced the sks(possible)
3 sks only used to kill kenny offsite

It's real interesting comment

 

[Piffcat]

Did some reading sks very similar to 30 06. It is used as a hunting rifle. It was first day of Turkey season did they think a hunting rifle would blend in as hunting gunshot. Also sks is really known as a distance rifle seems pretty unsuited for close quarters. The wags knew guns maybe they fashioned a carbine version but most likely this gun used for long range

 

[LMDlong]

I remember "larger caliber bullets." I need to listen again, thanks.

I believe his redacted autopsy report states it also.

 

[Berrybell]

"Ok everyone let's make the kids comfortable in the vehicles on our way to Kenai Alaska, stopping at 4 different Hotels. Oh, and we will stop by the Hotel pools."
... "Fun times for our kids."

"Ok everyone let's make the kid's comfortable in the vehicles on our way to commit 8 aggravated homicides and burglaries, stopping at 4 different homes. Oh, and we will stop by granny Fred's pond."
... "Fun times for our kids."

I find this not believable. Opinion

I believe AW was home with the kids due to the forged custody papers giving her custody in the event of GW & JW death, it does not include BW only her, AW was the only one not at risk of dying that night if something went wrong, and only 3 guns were used. Does this make her less of a killer? No. She knew the HR and her family were going to die, home or not she is just as guilty.

 

[Ann99]

G4 - 08/06/2021 JOURNAL ENTRY GRANTING REQUEST FOR EXTENSION OF DEALINE FOR SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY--AFTER DUE CONSIDERATION, THE COURT FINDS AND CONCLUDES THAT THE STATE OF OHIO'S MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF DEADLINE FOR SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY IS WELL-TAKEN AND SUCH MOTION IS HEREBY GRANTED; HOWEVER, THE STATE OF OHIO SHOULD NOT EXPECT ANY ADDITIONAL EXTENSIONS OF THIS DEADLINE.

IT IS ORDERED THAT DATE BY WHICH THE STATE OF OHIO SHALL FURNISH THE DEFENDANT WITH A COPY OF THE RECORDING OF THE PROFFER THAT THE STATE OF OHIO CONDUCTED WITH CO-DEFENDANT EDWARD JACOB WAGNER IS HEREBY EXTENDED TO AUGUST 13, 2021.

THE DATE BY WHICH THE DEFENDANT SHALL FURNISH RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY TO THE STATE OF OHIO IS HEREBY EXTENDED TO OCTOBER 12, 2021. THE COURT MAY FURTHER EXTEND THE TIME FOR PROVISION OF RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY UPON TIMELY MOTION OF THE DEFENDANT AND FOR GOOD CAUSE SHOWN. FILED AND MAILED COPIES CDB

Tomorrow is the day!

Will there be leaks of this proffer content?
Will there be a full reveal to the public?
Will there be vague hints of info. that we can use to theorize?

Will there be SEVERE headaches be for all Attorneys involved?
(or $$ signs dancing in their heads)
Will there be SEVERE headaches for remaining 3W's? (pls one, heh..heh.)
( or stubborn Clan, Boondock delusions of overcoming the evidence)

Will there be absolute clarity, on the LWOP vs DP question?

ETA: Does public have a right to know, or will it be sealed?
All opinions, thoughts welcome...

I am having trouble typing and entering responses. The ad across the bottom covers most of my keyboard(ipad) and jumps before complete. Is anyone else having difficulty?

 

[Covert Operative]

Tomorrow is the day!

Will there be leaks of this proffer content?
Will there be a full reveal to the public?
Will there be vague hints of info. that we can use to theorize?

Will there be SEVERE headaches be for all Attorneys involved?
(or $$ signs dancing in their heads)
Will there be SEVERE headaches for remaining 3W's? (pls one, heh..heh.)
( or stubborn Clan, Boondock delusions of overcoming the evidence)

Will there be absolute clarity, on the LWOP vs DP question?
ETA: Does public have a right to know, or will it be sealed?

Thinking the proffer will be sealed like RN's was. I imagine there has been a lot of ibuprofen and cold packs used by the defense since his confession.

Imagine the W's relief that during the searches the buckets were not found only to have JW tell them later where to find them.

I can't remember what the question was on LWOP vs DP but I do not think G3 lawyer would have file motion 51 if BW would have to admit guilt before the DP was removed for him. G4 lawyer did also mention in court at one time that the state had not removed it for him yet. AW and G4 have not filed a motion to remove it which might indicate some type of negotiations on a plea or they are just waiting to see what happens with motion 51.

AW's team actually is not doing anything it seems at least outwardly. They did file to get her phone privileges back on June 14th but then on June 21 the discovery was turned over that showed she had two calls the week of his confession. Maybe after seeing she broke the rules they decided not to pursue it.

 

[Ann99]

Thinking the proffer will be sealed like RN's was.

I imagine there has been a lot of ibuprofen and cold packs used by the defense since his confession.

Imagine the W's relief that during the searches the buckets were not found only to have JW tell them later where to find them.

I can't remember what the question was on LWOP vs DP but I do not think G3 lawyer would have file motion 51 if BW would have to admit guilt before the DP was removed for him. G4 lawyer did also mention in court at one time that the state had not removed it for him yet. AW and G4 have not filed a motion to remove it which might indicate some type of negotiations on a plea or they are just waiting to see what happens with motion 51.
AW's team actually is not doing anything it seems at least outwardly. They did file to get her phone privileges back on June 14th but then on June 21 the discovery was turned over that showed she had two calls the week of his confession. Maybe after seeing she broke the rules they decided not to pursue it.

MO
You are probably are correct on the Proffer being Sealed.
That would be a disappointment.

LOL on the cement buckets... never thought of how the remaining 3 W 's would feel about their clever hiding place being found.

Or what FW may or should be thinking...Is she worried or did she fire off a new Final Will eliminating the 4 W's for using her property to hide evidence?

All MO.

 

[Covert Operative]

MO
You are probably are correct on the Proffer being Sealed.
That would be a disappointment.

LOL on the cement buckets... never thought of how the remaining 3 W 's would feel about their clever hiding place being found.

Or what FW may or should be thinking...Is she worried or did she fire off a new Final Will eliminating the 4 W's for using her property to hide evidence?

All MO.

That proffer may never see the light of day publically, which is fortunate and unfortunate in ways.

FW is probably worried about her civil suit with the evidence being on her property. I do not think she would ever have agreed to it being put there even if she had committed the murders, but a civil jury may not think that.

 

[Ann99]

Soon, I believe we may have a lot to discuss regarding
Criminal Defense of an OBVIOUSLY Guilty Client.
What can a Criminal Defense Lawyer do or not do to defend?

 

[Ann99]

That proffer may never see the light of day publically, which is fortunate and unfortunate in ways.

FW is probably worried about her civil suit with the evidence being on her property. I do not think she would ever have agreed to it being put there even if she had committed the murders, but a civil jury may not think that.

We will have to agree to disagree on the FW issue. I think of the BOY BLUE fire. And harboring a fugitive, among other suppositions...MO

 

[Covert Operative]

We will have to agree to disagree on the FW issue. I think of the BOY BLUE fire. And harboring a fugitive, among other suppositions...

Yeah I think she probably did a lot of stuff but I doubt she would go along with letting evidence being hid on her property that could put her in jeopardy. None of the other things had any evidence she was involved but guns in cement buckets could be a whole different story. I am happy to agree to disagree though.

 

[Covert Operative]

Soon, I believe we may have a lot to discuss regarding
Criminal Defense of an OBVIOUSLY Guilty Client.
What can a Criminal Defense Lawyer do or not do to defend?

If they know their client is guilty, because the client has told them they are, there are certain things they cannot do. Thy cannot lie if they know information pertaining to the clients legal guilt or offer evidence they know is false. They can still defend them.

 

[Cool Cats]

I can't remember what the question was on LWOP vs DP but I do not think G3 lawyer would have file motion 51 if BW would have to admit guilt before the DP was removed for him. G4 lawyer did also mention in court at one time that the state had not removed it for him yet. AW and G4 have not filed a motion to remove it which might indicate some type of negotiations on a plea or they are just waiting to see what happens with motion 51.

Yup. None of them have to admit guilt unless they do a plea deal and forgo trial.
Billy's situation is unique. Very unique. This is why I'm so interested in his Sept Hearing.

Billy wants it in writing that the DP is off the table without pleading guilty. This never happens. You have to plead guilty, forgo your trial to get DP off the table.

But his son plead guilty for him basically. Jake's guilty plea is sopose to help Billy.

Not sure I'm even making any sense here.

Yeah I think she probably did a lot of stuff but I doubt she would go along with letting evidence being hid on her property that could put her in jeopardy. None of the other things had any evidence she was involved but guns in cement buckets could be a whole different story. I am happy to agree to disagree though.

Agree, FW would never let evidence be on her property. Although they got a treasure trove of computer evidence in Discovery from her computer, FWF businesses and Robin's computer.

But murder evidence, I don't think so. I think she's mad as all heck that guns were on her property. Embarrassing probably.

 

[ohioexpat63]

Tomorrow is the day!

Will there be leaks of this proffer content?
Will there be a full reveal to the public?
Will there be vague hints of info. that we can use to theorize?

Will there be SEVERE headaches be for all Attorneys involved?
(or $$ signs dancing in their heads)
Will there be SEVERE headaches for remaining 3W's? (pls one, heh..heh.)
( or stubborn Clan, Boondock delusions of overcoming the evidence)

Will there be absolute clarity, on the LWOP vs DP question?

ETA: Does public have a right to know, or will it be sealed?
All opinions, thoughts welcome...

I am having trouble typing and entering responses. The ad across the bottom covers most of my keyboard(ipad) and jumps before complete. Is anyone else having difficulty?

I'm almost certain the 3Ws know what's coming. If JW is truly worried about saving his bacon then, in theory, he has told the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. The Ws know the truth. Imo

 

[Cool Cats]

MO
You are probably are correct on the Proffer being Sealed.
That would be a disappointment.

LOL on the cement buckets... never thought of how the remaining 3 W 's would feel about their clever hiding place being found.

Or what FW may or should be thinking...Is she worried or did she fire off a new Final Will eliminating the 4 W's for using her property to hide evidence?

All MO.

She had to take the 4 Wagners out of her Will. No choice. Anything these people inherit they will lose in a civil trial, Fred's money and property would belong to the 4 Rhoden grandchildren.

Nothing she can do to protect herself though. You can't hide assets when your being sued or in her case outright indicted.

Soon, I believe we may have a lot to discuss regarding
Criminal Defense of an OBVIOUSLY Guilty Client.
What can a Criminal Defense Lawyer do or not do to defend?

Nash defending George...humm. He revealed his defense strategy at the Bond Hearing but now has to tweek it.

One way to re-group is to claim Jake is mentally ill which he did in a motion.
If the mods want I can post that motion again. Was mod approved and posted some time ago.

 

[Cool Cats]

Tomorrow is the day!

Will there be leaks of this proffer content?
Will there be a full reveal to the public?
Will there be vague hints of info. that we can use to theorize?

Will there be SEVERE headaches be for all Attorneys involved?
(or $$ signs dancing in their heads)
Will there be SEVERE headaches for remaining 3W's? (pls one, heh..heh.)
( or stubborn Clan, Boondock delusions of overcoming the evidence)

Will there be absolute clarity, on the LWOP vs DP question?

ETA: Does public have a right to know, or will it be sealed?
All opinions, thoughts welcome...

I am having trouble typing and entering responses. The ad across the bottom covers most of my keyboard(ipad) and jumps before complete. Is anyone else having difficulty?

Refresh me on tomorrow. I can't keep everything straight in my mind.

4 defendants, Jake's confession and plea, all these motions, the DP regarding Billy, Angela's phone calls and absence from court, Jake accused of mental illness, guns in cement on FWF, murder vehicles one purchased for that night, .... Wow..!