GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

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Cool Cats said:
There was a bullet casing(s) on the porch. Came from the Wagners. Chris had flood lights so bright you could see into the cars that drove up.

Relatives of murdered Ohio family believe two properties had security cameras

"Manley told the Cincinnati Enquirer he believes Christopher Rhoden Sr. kept his security cameras on all the time."

Makes sense to me that Chris saw them coming, opened the door and Billy started shooting probably the torso shot. Or a shooter stepped in and shot and the casing flew on the porch.

This is only what I gather happened. Only my point of view. Dudley said they could have dropped a casing. That's true but with all the gun shots I think Billy fired right away and the casing flew on the porch.

We don't know who was killed first. Jake could have killed the 5 first.

But then again Chris showed more composition but really we don't know why.

As you say, all speculation.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's all speculation until AC tells us what JW said happened.

I can't wait to find out what these Boondock Saints wannabe's in their collective genius minds had planned. Or how the plan was supposed to play out.
 
Dudly said:
They had brass catchers so there shouldn’t have been any casings inside, either. One could have fallen out of the brass catcher on the porch. It wouldn’t have to be hand held to be dropped on the porch.
From all evidence released by LE or mentioned in court, nothing has indicated that anyone shot a gun outside of a house that night. Other than JW likely to have shot the.22, no one knows whom shot which guns. JW could have shot all three. Two or three or even four may have shot all three guns. One or two of them may not have shot any guns. That info has not been released.
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Yes a casing or casings could have accidentally fallen out of the brass catcher but I think that Billy shot the the very second he was entering the home, whether or not Chris opened the door. But yes, it could have fallen.

I think the evidence shows that George used the Glock, Jake the 22 and the SKS is what is left for Billy.

Gary was shot with larger caliber bullets, the Glock has large bullets. So that means Chris wasn't shot with the Glock. Jake shot 5 people but not Chris. Leaves Billy shooting Chris.

Billy pulled a gun on Chris in a fight a week prior to that night according to the Other Acts Evidence.
upload_2021-8-11_11-38-42.png
Other Acts Evidence number #7 Billy draws gun on Chris. Posted by Covert Operative Moderator approved.

Billy was Chris's age and they had been friends. On a different day they got into a fight, obviously they didn't like what each other was saying. Billy was mad at Chris I believe.

George was a Glock man and bought a Glock.

Add up this evidence and I think George shot Gary with a Glock and Billy shot Chris with the gun we have left, the AKS.

Chris could have been more decomposed due to 9 shots on head, torso and extremities. The SKS does damage when leaving a body.
 
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Ann99 said:
Yep, it's all speculation until AC tells us what JW said happened.

I can't wait to find out what these Boondock Saints wannabe's in their collective genius minds had planned. Or how the plan was supposed to play out.
Click to expand...

Well if George gets his trial we will find out the details. The prosecution has to prove they all were shot by Wagner's so I think we will learn who shot who with what guns.

Since George is accused of killing all 8 I believe they will give more detail on all 8 and the plan that night.

I think we will find out Angela stayed home. She might be the one they thought might not be arrested.

In their own world LE has no right to chase them or question them or lock them up or other wise breakouts and revenge will rain down on them.

Pass the salt, let's get Reader, pass the meat, I want to kill DeWine, you do the dishes, I will break any of you out of jail, I want desert, don't forget to punch Scheiderer.

Just another day for The Wagner Crime Family around the family dinner table.


Speculation
 
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The SKS uses the same cartridge and the AK-47. 7.62x39. 7.62 is the bullet diameter and the 39 is the length of the cartridge case.
Both measurements are in Millimeters. Perhaps Chris Sr was shot while he was down and the bullet went thru him or missed and went thru the floor and into the ground. The SKS is a Russian designed weapon. For reference the full sized rifle version is 7.62x54r. 54 is the length of the cartridge case and the r means the cartridge case has a rim on the base. That cartridge is very similar in ballistics to the US 30-06, .303 British and Japanese 7.7 Arisaka, It is slightly smaller than the French 8mm Lebel and the German 7.92 Mauser.
 
Antimony said:
The SKS uses the same cartridge and the AK-47. 7.62x39. 7.62 is the bullet diameter and the 39 is the length of the cartridge case.
Both measurements are in Millimeters. Perhaps Chris Sr was shot while he was down and the bullet went thru him or missed and went thru the floor and into the ground. The SKS is a Russian designed weapon. For reference the full sized rifle version is 7.62x54r. 54 is the length of the cartridge case and the r means the cartridge case has a rim on the base. That cartridge is very similar in ballistics to the US 30-06, .303 British and Japanese 7.7 Arisaka, It is slightly smaller than the French 8mm Lebel and the German 7.92 Mauser.
Click to expand...

You lost me at Russia :eek: but nice of you to give details.
 
Cool Cats said:
Yes a casing or casings could have accidentally fallen out of the brass catcher but I think that Billy shot the the very second he was entering the home, whether or not Chris opened the door. But yes, it could have fallen.

I think the evidence shows that George used the Glock, Jake the 22 and the SKS is what is left for Billy.

Gary was shot with larger caliber bullets, the Glock has large bullets. So that means Chris wasn't shot with the Glock. Jake shot 5 people but not Chris. Leaves Billy shooting Chris.

Billy pulled a gun on Chris in a fight a week prior to that night according to the Other Acts Evidence.
View attachment 308397
Other Acts Evidence number #7 Billy draws gun on Chris. Posted by Covert Operative Moderator approved.

Billy was Chris's age and they had been friends. On a different day they got into a fight, obviously they didn't like what each other was saying. Billy was mad at Chris I believe.

George was a Glock man and bought a Glock.

Add up this evidence and I think George shot Gary with a Glock and Billy shot Chris with the gun we have left, the AKS.

Chris could have been more decomposed due to 9 shots on head, torso and extremities. The SKS does damage when leaving a body.
Click to expand...

What evidence shows that what guns each used? I have not seen it. It is not even known if all three or four fired a gun.
I prefer Chevys but have owned and driven Fords, Oldsmobiles, and Buick’s. Preferring a Glock does not mean GWIV used it.
Again, both the Glock and SKS are larger than the.22 so either could have hit GR. Where is it mentioned that JW did not shoot CR sr?
The Glock also does damage when it leaves a body. A Glock firing hollow point bullets will do more damage than an SKS. It is not known what bullets were used.
 
JMO, MOO

Only the murderers and possibly the attorneys on record know the finite details, to-date. I believe we all make inferences, based off what is known publicly. In reality, we don't know for a 100% fact who killed whom with what weapon. I believe ChrisSr had both defensive gunshot wounds as well as shots to torture or torment him. It is all speculation.

I wanna believe the kids weren't in the vehicles that night. I wanna believe they were safely tucked away at grannie's house. It could be AW had them at a Red Roof Inn. I don't know. Hopefully, one day, we will know some of the details. Until then, it'll be mostly inferences and a whole lot of speculation as to how it played out.
 
Cool Cats said:
Wow! I was right, I think anyway. George known as the Glock man and whose uncle went to the HWY rest stop with him to buy a Glock, is the one who shot Gary. His dad said his son was shot with larger caliber bullets.

So Jake used the 22 and George used the Glock and Billy used whatever that other one is and as I thought, Billy shot Chris, his bullets were not the same caliber as George's were.

The pieces fit on UHR but what about Left Fork Rd ??? Biggest mystery of this whole Case.
Click to expand...

I think Gary's dad said GR was shot with two calibers, ..."because they found two different calibers."
 
Dudly said:
What evidence shows that what guns each used? I have not seen it. It is not even known if all three or four fired a gun.
I prefer Chevys but have owned and driven Fords, Oldsmobiles, and Buick’s. Preferring a Glock does not mean GWIV used it.
Again, both the Glock and SKS are larger than the.22 so either could have hit GR. Where is it mentioned that JW did not shoot CR sr?
The Glock also does damage when it leaves a body. A Glock firing hollow point bullets will do more damage than an SKS. It is not known what bullets were used.
Click to expand...


From what I see from Scheiderer's testimony, Jake's reveals, Canepa's information in court, the Other Acts Evidence, many quotes from family, Discovery Documents, Hearings, research, documents sent to me in private message, Chris Grave's article series and Posters on here giving their take on research they share and their points of views.

Just from that I think Jake used the .22 Colt and shot 5 people on UHR. I think Billy used the AKA .30 and shot Chris, and George used the .40 Glock to ambush Gary.

I think either Billy or George shot Kenny. I think they did this to throw investigators off to think it was involving drugs and Cartel etc...From what Billy's lawyers say I think this was all Billy's idea.

1.) He lives away from UHR
2.) He had a small M grow.
3.) Money was on his lower legs to indicate greed
4.) One shot is more professional

I appreciate your take on it, alot of posters do not agree with my assumptions on this I am sure. Many posters don't agree with my take on where Angela was that night. Makes it interesting on here to have all these differing views

What I say is my perspective from what we can piece together so far. I like studying all the bits of information and putting them together to get a possible picture of how something happened. Everyone else will have their own picture.
 
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Cool Cats said:
I remember "larger caliber bullets." I need to listen again, thanks.
Click to expand...

The part where GR's dad speaks of what caliber shot GR has been removed from that video for a very very long time. I only remember him speaking of a larger caliber/bullets and not more than one caliber or a specific caliber in regard to GR. If you are able to find it in the video any longer, anywhere, please let me know as I would like to listen again also.

There are many articles around that reference GR being shot with a larger caliber though. Thanks

----Also found dead in the same trailer was his cousin, Gary Rhoden, 38. He was shot twice in the head and once in the face. With one of the shots, the reports indicate the gun was pressed against the side of his head, leaving a "muzzle stain."Rhoden family massacre: Preliminary autopsy reports reviewed (cincinnati.com)

 
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Gun information:

Scheiderer:
So at this location (Chris SR's) we have evidence that a 30 caliber rifle was used at this location. We also have evidence that a Glock 40 caliber firearm was fired and we recovered bullet fragments of the 30 caliber as well as the 40 caliber and a casing from the 40 caliber cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok and I believe you already testified that - that 40 caliber was determined to be fired from a Glock.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Ok and then you said a 30 caliber - was there an opinion about the projectile from the 30 caliber?

Scheiderer:
Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
There was other 30 calibers that were eliminated as potential contributors.

Canepa:
Ok and specifically because that's a little bit heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
Yes it was a - yes it was a heavier - yes.

Canepa:
And can you tell us where were those - where was the ballistic evidence found at scene one?

Scheiderer:
In the living room which is the primary room of the residence and then also on the front porch leading up to the residence.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
And - and underneath the residence there was also a bullet retrieved from the dirt underneath the residence.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details
1 Hour 10 minutes into the video.
 
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Cool Cats said:
According to Scheiderer's testimony I think George shot Gary with the AKS and Billy used the Glock shooting Chris. I believe I had it the wrong way around :oops: Also, it sounds like there was more than one shell casing on the porch.

Scheiderer:
So at this location (Chris SR's) we have evidence that a 30 caliber rifle was used at this location. We also have evidence that a Glock 40 caliber firearm was fired and we recovered bullet fragments of the 30 caliber as well as the 40 caliber and a casing from the 40 caliber cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok and I believe you already testified that - that 40 caliber was determined to be fired from a Glock.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Ok and then you said a 30 caliber - was there an opinion about the projectile from the 30 caliber?

Scheiderer:
Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
There was other 30 calibers that were eliminated as potential contributors.

Canepa:
Ok and specifically because that's a little bit heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
Yes it was a - yes it was a heavier - yes.

Canepa:
And can you tell us where were those - where was the ballistic evidence found at scene one?

Scheiderer:
In the living room which is the primary room of the residence and then also on the front porch leading up to the residence.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
And - and underneath the residence there was also a bullet retrieved from the dirt underneath the residence.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details
1 Hour 10 minutes into the video.
Click to expand...

I believe you had it correct to begin with as to how it went with your theory. G4 is known as the Glock man, he is the one that bought the Glock an the Glock would be the 40 caliber, the larger of the calibers.

I think most have assumed for a long time that G4 was shot with the Glock due to information that has come out. We just do not know that for sure.
 
Covert Operative said:
I believe you had it correct to begin with as to how it went with your theory. G4 is known as the Glock man, he is the one that bought the Glock an the Glock would be the 40 caliber, the larger of the calibers.

I think most have assumed for a long time that G4 was shot with the Glock due to information that has come out. We just do not know that for sure.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The "heavy caliber bullets" threw me off.

I'll just edit that part out, let the court speak for it's self.
 
@Colonel Mustard we were both right, 2 different casings at the scene and larger caliber bullets.

Father of Pike Co. murder victims says killer should be tortured | 10tv.com

"Kenneth (Gary's dad) said according to the coroner there were two different bullet casings found at the scene, leading him to believe this crime was the act of more than one person."

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies
  • Larger caliber bullets were used to kill 37-year-old Gary Rhoden.
 
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Cool Cats said:
Father of Pike Co. murder victims says killer should be tortured

"Kenneth said according to the coroner there were two different bullet casings found at the scene, leading him to believe this crimes were the acts of more than one person."

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies
  • Larger caliber bullets were used to kill 37-year-old Gary Rhoden.
Click to expand...

Yes, but he did not say there were two different size calibers used to kill GR. I assume the other size found was used on CRsr but that is just an assumption on my part.
 
Covert Operative said:
Yes, but he did not say there were two different size calibers used to kill GR. I assume the other size found was used on CRsr but that is just an assumption on my part.
Click to expand...

One size hit Chris and the larger size hit Gary is how I think Kenneth (Gary's dad)
meant it.

Larger caliber bullets not one bullet, all 3 were large that hit Gary

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies
  • Larger caliber bullets were used to kill 37-year-old Gary Rhoden.
 
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