GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[Betty P]

The attorneys mean he didn't shoot or kill anyone = anybody = nobody same thing.

See these quotes from:

Motion #73

(The capital letters and underlining for the word NOT is how it is written in the Motion.)

Recently provided Discovery makes it clear that George did NOT shoot and kill any of the victims.

Yet the State insists on proceeding with this case a capital case unless and until Jake Wagner testifies for the State to it's satisfaction.

Thus, the State seeks to hold the death penalty over the head of George Wagner who did not kill anybody while it has struck a remarkable plea bargain with the actual killer of at least 5 victims who also shot a sixth victim.

This is 100% clear the attorneys are saying George did not shoot anyone and in fact Jake shot 6 people not 5.

It doesn't say George was not on scene that night so as long as he was there he can't get out of the murder charges I am sure.

I don't believe anything the defense attorneys say. They can twist the meaning of their words. They can even lie. They're under no obligation to do anything more than defend their client.

If they use this kind of wordplay in court, they will get called on it. They can be as creative as they wish when filing motions, though.

GW4 is toast, no matter how much anyone argues that he was a great guy. He's not. He's part of a sick, twisted criminal family that plotted the murder of an entire bloodline, as @Piffcat says. It doesn't get much worse than the Rhoden Family Massacre. They slaughtered Ms Geneva Rhodens sons, their wives, her grandchildren and left her great grandchildren screaming and covered in blood next to their parents.

Then they've had the unmitigated gall to fight the prosecutors, insult the courts and demand to be set free, even though half the killers admitted their guilt. They've pledged and plotted to get GW4 out of jail so he can take revenge upon prosecutors, LE and even the governor. They're not kidding.

I'll never understand why anyone would want any of these people to walk free ever again. We have no qualms about demanding the DP for other serial killers.

Why do some think the Wagners are different? I'm curious. What makes them warm and fuzzy or in any way deserving of sympathy?

If GW4 is released from prison, how long do you think it will take before he kills again?

 

[Betty P]

From the Motion:

Thus, the State seeks to hold the death penalty over the head of George Wagner who did not kill anybody while it has struck a remarkable plea bargain with the actual killer of at least 5 victims who also shot a sixth victim.

I have an opinion on what they might mean by Jake shooting a 6th victim (Cr Sr)
anyone else?

My only opinion is that GW4's defense attorneys have frequently been dishonest in their filing of motions and in hearings in court. They've claimed they haven't received evidence from the prosecution when they actually have. They've twisted words of defense attorneys. Whatever meaning they're trying to convey is total dishonesty and media manipulation.

If they don't want GW4 to face the death penalty, all they have to do is cut a deal with the state for LWOP. Easy. But they're not doing that, so the only assumption we can make is they want to help George get out of prison, get a light sentence.

George's attorneys have heard the recordings where the Wagners plotted to help get one of them out of jail so they can help the others escape and take revenge against the prosecutors. Should we assume George's defense attorneys approve of this plan or don't care about what will happen? Which is it?

JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't believe anything the defense attorneys say. They can twist the meaning of their words. They can even lie. They're under no obligation to do anything more than defend their client.

If they use this kind of wordplay in court, they will get called on it. They can be as creative as they wish when filing motions, though.

GW4 is toast, no matter how much anyone argues that he was a great guy. He's not. He's part of a sick, twisted criminal family that plotted the murder of an entire bloodline, as @Piffcat says. It doesn't get much worse than the Rhoden Family Massacre. They slaughtered Ms Geneva Rhodens sons, their wives, her grandchildren and left her great grandchildren screaming and covered in blood next to their parents.

Then they've had the unmitigated gall to fight the prosecutors, insult the courts and demand to be set free, even though half the killers admitted their guilt. They've pledged and plotted to get GW4 out of jail so he can take revenge upon prosecutors, LE and even the governor. They're not kidding.

I'll never understand why anyone would want any of these people to walk free ever again. We have no qualms about demanding the DP for other serial killers.

Why do some think the Wagners are different? I'm curious. What makes them warm and fuzzy or in any way deserving of sympathy?

Your Quote:

"Why do some think the Wagners are different? I'm curious. What makes them warm and fuzzy or in any way deserving of sympathy?"

Rant:

Don't worry, no one thinks this. Most everyone hates the 4 Wagners and even Fred said no one wants anything to do with her, and Jake said they were getting death threats and the Podcasts said they were targeted with violence etc....

The prosecution will never let the 4 Wagners get away with anything and Judge Deering already made it clear where he stands. He won't dismiss the death penalty specifications and won't allow bond.

Watch, George and Billy will end up going to trial to try to be acquitted of the murders, the murder charges against them won't be magically dropped through a Motion, Deering will never rule in favor of that Motion.

Most in Pike County hate the Wagners and want justice and no family member will allow Billy and George to skate away from murder.

Only the defense attorneys are fighting for the Wagners and it is a job to them, standard law practice.

There just is no way Billy and George are going to get an Angela Wagner deal. Deering, Canepa, Junk, the 3 families, none of them will allow it.

Not only do most people in Southern Ohio hate the Wagners, the Ohio State prison system will hate them too. Not just inmates but the administration and officers as well. No one will go out of their way to make a Wagner comfortable in prison.

Ultimately Billy and George will do anything possible to avoid going. They can't hide and sneek around anymore like they did on the Rhoden property. Now they are exposed and vulnerable and they know it.

 

[LMDlong]

So you think they, G4 and lawyer, would hope to get the same deal as AW, or a better deal?
Thirty years is not enough for G4. He would be old, but still able to carry on criminal actions.
I can't see any justification for a better deal than AW

I agree with you 100%. I don’t know if G4 will try to deal or not, but if he does I can see him trying for the same deal AW got. IMO I feel they all should spend the rest of their lives behind bars.

 

[Cool Cats]

My only opinion is that GW4's defense attorneys have frequently been dishonest in their filing of motions and in hearings in court. They've claimed they haven't received evidence from the prosecution when they actually have. They've twisted words of defense attorneys. Whatever meaning they're trying to convey is total dishonesty and media manipulation.

If they don't want GW4 to face the death penalty, all they have to do is cut a deal with the state for LWOP. Easy. But they're not doing that, so the only assumption we can make is they want to help George get out of prison, get a light sentence.

George's attorneys have heard the recordings where the Wagners plotted to help get one of them out of jail so they can help the others escape and take revenge against the prosecutors. Should we assume George's defense attorneys approve of this plan or don't care about what will happen? Whiaggregat

JMO.

Your Quote:

George's attorneys have heard the recordings where the Wagners plotted to help get one of them out of jail so they can help the others escape and take revenge against the prosecutors. Should we assume George's defense attorneys approve of this plan or don't care about what will happen? Which is it?

Nash doesn't care that George said all that, he isn't concerned George would do any of that.

Because to him this was Jake and Angela's show, he revealed that at the Bond Hearing. George didn't kill anyone or get involved so for George to walk free in society would be fine by Nash. They would probably have dinner together and celebrate.

What a feather in Nash's cap to get his client out from under 8 aggravated death penalty charges, then get more charges dropped. He would be a super hero to every @#$%& and criminal sent to jail.

Thus, it's Nash's big moment and I think he believes what he wants to believe -
what he said about George at his preliminary hearing - that George has had a clean record all his life.

 

[Betty P]

Your Quote:

George's attorneys have heard the recordings where the Wagners plotted to help get one of them out of jail so they can help the others escape and take revenge against the prosecutors. Should we assume George's defense attorneys approve of this plan or don't care about what will happen? Which is it?

Nash doesn't care that George said all that, he isn't concerned George would do any of that.

Because to him this was Jake and Angela's show, he revealed that at the Bond Hearing. George didn't kill anyone or get involved so for George to walk free in society would be fine by Nash. They would probably have dinner together and celebrate.

What a feather in Nash's cap to get his client out from under 8 aggravated death penalty charges, then get more charges dropped. He would be a super hero to every @#$%& and criminal sent to jail.

Thus, it's Nash's big moment and I think he believes what he wants to believe -
what he said about George at his preliminary hearing - that George has had a clean record all his life.

If so, Nash is a despicable human being and an unethical attorney. He has no concern for the safety of the public and has such a big ego, he's unwilling to settle for getting LWOP for his client, something most DP attorneys consider a victory.

Nash is claiming George didn't shoot to kill anyone. No one should believe him, he doesn't have to tell the truth.

He's using Racehorse Hayne's old strategy of pleading in the alternative:

"Say you sue me because you claim my dog bit you. Well now, this is my defense: My dog doesn't bite. And second, in the alternative, my dog was tied up that night. And third, I don't believe you really got bit. And fourth, I don't have a dog."

Richard Haynes (lawyer) - Wikipedia

Just make it up as you go along. Defense attorneys don't have to prove their case, they just have to confuse and sow doubt among one or two members of the jury.

 

[IType]

I’m wondering if GW4 and his attorneys want motion 73 to be granted so after it is done they can try to make a deal with the state on the other charges before BW .

I had the same thought.

 

[IType]

From the Motion:

Thus, the State seeks to hold the death penalty over the head of George Wagner who did not kill anybody while it has struck a remarkable plea bargain with the actual killer of at least 5 victims who also shot a sixth victim.

I have an opinion on what they might mean by Jake shooting a 6th victim (Cr Sr)
anyone else?

I notice it says JW is actual killer of five and that he shot a sixth. Doesn't say he killed the sixth victim, only says shot. Are GW4's attorneys trying to sow seeds of reasonable doubt in the minds of potential jurors before the trial starts?

 

[Piffcat]

I don't believe anything the defense attorneys say. They can twist the meaning of their words. They can even lie. They're under no obligation to do anything more than defend their client.

If they use this kind of wordplay in court, they will get called on it. They can be as creative as they wish when filing motions, though.

GW4 is toast, no matter how much anyone argues that he was a great guy. He's not. He's part of a sick, twisted criminal family that plotted the murder of an entire bloodline, as @Piffcat says. It doesn't get much worse than the Rhoden Family Massacre. They slaughtered Ms Geneva Rhodens sons, their wives, her grandchildren and left her great grandchildren screaming and covered in blood next to their parents.

Then they've had the unmitigated gall to fight the prosecutors, insult the courts and demand to be set free, even though half the killers admitted their guilt. They've pledged and plotted to get GW4 out of jail so he can take revenge upon prosecutors, LE and even the governor. They're not kidding.

I'll never understand why anyone would want any of these people to walk free ever again. We have no qualms about demanding the DP for other serial killers.

Why do some think the Wagners are different? I'm curious. What makes them warm and fuzzy or in any way deserving of sympathy?

If GW4 is released from prison, how long do you think it will take before he kills again?

Like 1000 times great post ac could use you in trial! More helpful then junk in Homer simpson

 

[Cool Cats]

I notice it says JW is actual killer of five and that he shot a sixth. Doesn't say he killed the sixth victim, only says shot. Are GW4's attorneys trying to sow seeds of reasonable doubt in the minds of potential jurors before the trial starts?

Yes but not working.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

If Jake shot Kenny he would have to claim he killed 6 people.

If Billy and/or George killed Chris, Jake could have added a shot, there were 9 shots.

Yep, disregard my posts, I am somewhat out of the legal aspects of the case. Thank goodness I don't let this case consume me.

 

[almond]

My only opinion is that GW4's defense attorneys have frequently been dishonest in their filing of motions and in hearings in court. They've claimed they haven't received evidence from the prosecution when they actually have. They've twisted words of defense attorneys. Whatever meaning they're trying to convey is total dishonesty and media manipulation.

If they don't want GW4 to face the death penalty, all they have to do is cut a deal with the state for LWOP. Easy. But they're not doing that, so the only assumption we can make is they want to help George get out of prison, get a light sentence.

George's attorneys have heard the recordings where the Wagners plotted to help get one of them out of jail so they can help the others escape and take revenge against the prosecutors. Should we assume George's defense attorneys approve of this plan or don't care about what will happen? Which is it?

JMO.

Should we assume George's defense attorneys approve of this plan or don't care about what will happen? Which is it?

A toxic level Narcissist defending a sociopath with word salads, simply to further his career? Or just a flying monkey? George is guilty guilty guilty. We all know it. Moo.
Ebm

 

[Betty P]

Should we assume George's defense attorneys approve of this plan or don't care about what will happen? Which is it?

A toxic level Narcissist defending a sociopath with word salads, simply to further his career? Or just a flying monkey? George is guilty guilty guilty. We all know it. Moo.
Ebm

Yes, it seems to be a very convoluted defense strategy that apparently presumes GW4 should be set free and serve no time other than what he's already served.

JMO, I'm making that assumption based on the motions his defense team has recently filed and arguments they continue to make in court. They want the DP dropped and they want to go to trial with the expectation of acquittal.

They're asking for the DP to be dropped in case their cockamamie defense backfires in a bad way.

Very irresponsible, given the evidence and confessions.

JMO of course. IANAL.

 

[ColMustard]

Maybe:
JW and GW were the main shooters. JW with his Walther pistol and GW with his Glock.
Big Billy stood by with the SKS. Billy was there to supervise and stand overwatch.
Overwatch= backup, supervision and Training of your cubs. Think animals training their cubs to kill.
If you are familiar with guns and the people that own them,
you might have notice a tendency of a person to favor his choice of gun above all others.
Kind of like being a "Glock Man". Even tho the people ambushed and shot people in their beds.
Even tho they shot women and children. Even tho only two of the victims (Chris Sr and Kenny) had
only a remote chance of arming themselves, The shooters would not take any chances with their
precious lives. They would go with their own gun and and stay with their own gun. Only with Chris Sr
did anything go even slightly wrong. I feel that the three murderers wished to punish Chris Sr beyond
his execution style murder. Shots to wound, but not kill and maybe the use of the knife to show him who
was boss. That is why the mask confuses me. If it was for camouflage, where were the other two masks?
Wearing a mask on that road at night would certainly bring more attention than even a shadowy person
along the road.
Glock Man stays with the Glock.
Maybe.

I think all of that is plausible.

The SKS can have an overall length of 40-44", so you wouldn't want to be real close in a small space if the target is moving, would be tough to swing the muzzle around.

Masks in case they are seen heading to/from a vehicle, or if they missed a video recorder at least their faces are covered. Probably lifted the mask once confronting any of the victims that were awake.

Knife with DNA in evidence, correct?

 

[joe jones]

the state so far is accepting JW proffer, and they obviously told AW who shot who and how it happened that night, she told state who shot who (as she was told) that night before she saw JW proffer and I imagine her story must match JW story pretty closely as the state are now relying on her and JW as telling similar stories therefore what they are saying must be close to the truth (and match the evidence they have).

Therefore we now have JW shot 5 and killed them and shot 1 other once, Billy shot 3 and killed 3, l think it probable that JW shot and killed Dana, Hannah, Chris JR, Frankie, Hannah, BW shot Chris SR, Gary and Kenneth, JW shot one of those once,

 

[joe jones]

I think GW feels that his case for removing the DP is much stronger, as my reading between the lines is that JW has said GW did not shoot anybody, AW has probably said the same, and JW having admitted to 5 of the murders and not being DP eligible is an argument for a non murderer to not get DP, then their is AW deal (she also killed nobody) of 30 years, even though to me she was the initial instigator and she probably did much of the organising, pre and post planning of the crimes and getting rid of evidence,

seems to me GW should not be DP eligible if JW was not DP eligible (but I am against the DP for anybody, and fortunately for me live in a country where is was abolished many years ago)

 

[Cool Cats]

I think GW feels that his case for removing the DP is much stronger, as my reading between the lines is that JW has said GW did not shoot anybody, AW has probably said the same, and JW having admitted to 5 of the murders and not being DP eligible is an argument for a non murderer to not get DP, then their is AW deal (she also killed nobody) of 30 years, even though to me she was the initial instigator and she probably did much of the organising, pre and post planning of the crimes and getting rid of evidence,

seems to me GW should not be DP eligible if JW was not DP eligible (but I am against the DP for anybody, and fortunately for me live in a country where is was abolished many years ago)

They all were and are DP eligible still.

 

[joe jones]

They all were and are DP eligible still.

I know but as long as JW stays on script they will all be not DP eligible, and I doubt he is going to do anything to lose the deal he got, GW wants the DP taking off him because he is arguing that he killed nobody so that if he goes to trial it will not be a capital case, plus if he has no DP eligibility he starts from a better bargaining position, JW and then AW started bargaining with the DP eligibility in place, if GW can start negotiating with the starting point being LWOP or less it is an advantage,

I think GW has an argument for no DP considering JW and AW pleas

 

[Betty P]

the state so far is accepting JW proffer, and they obviously told AW who shot who and how it happened that night, she told state who shot who (as she was told) that night before she saw JW proffer and I imagine her story must match JW story pretty closely as the state are now relying on her and JW as telling similar stories therefore what they are saying must be close to the truth (and match the evidence they have).

Therefore we now have JW shot 5 and killed them and shot 1 other once, Billy shot 3 and killed 3, l think it probable that JW shot and killed Dana, Hannah, Chris JR, Frankie, Hannah, BW shot Chris SR, Gary and Kenneth, JW shot one of those once,

So far, we don't know which members of the Wagner clan killed Chris Sr, Gary and Kenneth Rhoden. We know the state has charged both Billy and his son George with aggravated murder and they haven't dropped any charges. We also know two different guns of 2 different caliber were used in those 3 murders.

So, no, we don't know that Billy killed all 3. As it stands from the evidence so far and the actions of the state and the court, both Billy and his son George 4 were involved in those murders.

 

[Betty P]

I know but as long as JW stays on script they will all be not DP eligible, and I doubt he is going to do anything to lose the deal he got, GW wants the DP taking off him because he is arguing that he killed nobody so that if he goes to trial it will not be a capital case, plus if he has no DP eligibility he starts from a better bargaining position, JW and then AW started bargaining with the DP eligibility in place, if GW can start negotiating with the starting point being LWOP or less it is an advantage,

I think GW has an argument for no DP considering JW and AW pleas

The prosecution team are the only ones who can decide to drop DP charges. Right now, no one knows all the details of JW's proffer except JW, the state and the defense attorneys representing the other defendants. Defendants are not allowed to see the proffer.

Neither is anyone on social media