GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[Antimony]

Maybe JW stated in his proffer that "GW did not shoot". Maybe AC has proof to the contrary.
She may be waiting to prove him a liar at GW's trial and to bring back the death penalty for all of them.
Maybe she could use that as a hammer to get all to plead guilty for LWOP.
Maybe.

 

[Covert Operative]

Maybe JW stated in his proffer that "GW did not shoot". Maybe AC has proof to the contrary.
She may be waiting to prove him a liar at GW's trial and to bring back the death penalty for all of them.
Maybe she could use that as a hammer to get all to plead guilty for LWOP.
Maybe.

If she has proof to the contrary (discovery) she has to turn that over. So far I do not think that anything like that has been turned over. They could have been trying very hard in those 5 months to prove something in his proffer was not true. There may be things they doubt in the proffer but cannot prove otherwise.

 

[Betty P]

If you believe JW's proffer and I believe you said before there was zero chance he did not tell the truth, then that is the proof I guess. That is the proof the state seems to have accepted. It's the discovery (proffer) that says he did not kill anyone I believe, so the defense does not have to prove it, the state proved it for them.

As I have said several times in the past I did not necessarily believe JW may have told the whole truth but if the state accepted that he did then that is what will matter I guess.

So far, we don't know what JW said in his proffer. There are a lot of rumors and insinuations from GW4's defense team, but that's all.

 

[Covert Operative]

So far, we don't know what JW said in his proffer. There are a lot of rumors and insinuations from GW4's defense team, but that's all.

We do not know, but it seems doubtful the defense lied in motion 73. That probably would not set well with the judege or the state.

 

[Betty P]

If she has proof to the contrary (discovery) she has to turn that over. So far I do not think that anything like that has been turned over. They could have been trying very hard in those 5 months to prove something in his proffer was not true. There may be things they doubt in the proffer but cannot prove otherwise.

Since the public doesn't have access to the proffer, we really don't know whether Jake said anything to exonerate GW4.

If GW4's lawyers claim to have some evidence that he didn't kill any of the Rhodens, why haven't they approached the prosecution to negotiate a deal?

What is their goal? They've been making these same exaggerated claims since they were first appointed as GW4's counsel. What makes this claim any different than the others?

ETA: Just curious, in 2016 was Billy Wagner taller than GW4? The analysis of the crime scenes was very detailed. The state's experts will be able to determine the number of killers present, where they were, how they moved, etc.

Billy Wagner's attorneys are also acting as though they plan to go all the way to trial. How will the two defenses stack up with Billy against his own son?

 

[Covert Operative]

Since the public doesn't have access to the proffer, we really don't know whether Jake said anything to exonerate GW4.

If GW4's lawyers claim to have some evidence that he didn't kill any of the Rhodens, why haven't they approached the prosecution to negotiate a deal?

What is their goal? They've been making these same exaggerated claims since they were first appointed as GW4's counsel. What makes this claim any different than the others?

I doubt they lied to the court in their motion of what the discovery was the state provided to them. The evidence came to the defense from the state (proffer). They may have been trying to work out a plea deal, I assume they probaby have, does not mean they can come to an agreement.
I think what makes it different is that JW proffer from the state to defense must say G4 did not shoot anyone. You can assume they are lying to the court about what was in discovery. It does seem doubtful to me that they would go to that extreme to put it in front of the judge if their motion was full of lies. I would be surprised if Deering dismisses counts 1-8.

 

[Penelope Pitstop]

It is interesting to think about this new Motion by G4’s legal team. Then remember back to the Motion hearing for G4 and Agent Schneider’s testimony. I need to go back rewatch it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Jake said his family was involved with these crimes.

Jake already pinned 3 of the murders onto his brother and dad.

He said he shot 5 out of 8, not 8 out of 8.

The only way Billy and George get all aggravated murders charges dropped is if Jake insists he killed all 8. Not happening.

Canepa talked of all 3 guys going out that night. Angela knew where they were going and they told her about it when they got back.

George's footprints are there.

The 22 shell casings from Jake's gun were found away from Chris's house so that leaves Billy and George with the 30 caliber and 40 caliber at Chris's house.

2 different guns were used to shoot Billy and Gary and one of those guns most likely also shot Kenny.

I believe George and Billy did the shooting at Chris's and of course one of them at Kenny's.

It is not realistic that Billy shot Chris 9 times then took George's gun and shot Gary 3 times.

It is not realistic that George shot Chris 9 times then took Billy's gun and shot Gary 3 times.

I believe Jake has already told BCI and the Prosecutors who his dad shot and who his brother shot.

These Motions are just par for the course, even grandstanding if you will.

All 3 were there.
3 different guns.
Jake shot 5, Billy and George shot 3 between them.

I believe both George and Billy are going down for aggravated murder

 

[Dudly]

Jake said his family was involved with these crimes.

Jake already pinned 3 of the murders onto his brother and dad.

He said he shot 5 out of 8, not 8 out of 8.

The only way Billy and George get all aggravated murders charges dropped is if Jake insists he killed all 8. Not happening.

Canepa talked of all 3 guys going out that night. Angela knew where they were going and they told her about it when they got back.

George's footprints are there.

The 22 shell casings from Jake's gun were found away from Chris's house so that leaves Billy and George with the 30 caliber and 40 caliber at Chris's house.

2 different guns were used to shoot Billy and Gary and one of those guns most likely also shot Kenny.

I believe George and Billy did the shooting at Chris's and of course one of them at Kenny's.

It is not realistic that Billy shot Chris 9 times then took George's gun and shot Gary 3 times.

It is not realistic that George shot Chris 9 times then took Billy's gun and shot Gary 3 times.

I believe Jake has already told BCI and the Prosecutors who his dad shot and who his brother shot.

These Motions are just par for the course, even grandstanding if you will.

All 3 were there.
3 different guns.
Jake shot 5, Billy and George shot 3 between them.

I believe both George and Billy are going down for aggravated murder

It is absolutely possible and plausible that any one of the three guys could have shot any or all of the guns there that night. The guns weren’t attached to a particular hand nor required a particular person to be fired. From what info has come out in public, there is no way to tell whom did what that night as far as whom shot whom or what they shot with...

 

[Puzzles8]

It is absolutely possible and plausible that any one of the three guys could have shot any or all of the guns there that night. The guns weren’t attached to a particular hand nor required a particular person to be fired. From what info has come out in public, there is no way to tell whom did what that night as far as whom shot whom or what they shot with...

Dudly, thank you for bringing this up. Even though the W3 were associated with their favorite weapons, there is no telling who actually used those weapons to murder that night.

IMO, an important point.

 

[Cool Cats]

It is absolutely possible and plausible that any one of the three guys could have shot any or all of the guns there that night. The guns weren’t attached to a particular hand nor required a particular person to be fired. From what info has come out in public, there is no way to tell whom did what that night as far as whom shot whom or what they shot with...

Even if one didn't pull a trigger they were there and assisted and intimidated the victims.

Just being at the aggravated murder scenes assisting with moving bodies, stealing cameras and phones and a recording device, breaking and entering, tampering with evidence, being a lookout, being a driver, hiding the evidence, etc, is enough for aggravated murder.

Billy and George are going down for aggravated murder I believe for sure.

You just can't be at those crime scenes and get all the murder charges dropped. Only in the defense lawyer's minds. Not the prosecution's.

I believe both shot, both had their own guns. These 2 guys are not gonna give up their guns to each other.

... How I think the Case is going to go ...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This is for GW4 ^^

Motion 45 - DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY NON-TESTIFYING CO-DEFENDANT STATEMENTS THE STATE INTENDS TO PRESENT IN ITS CASE IN CHIEF

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...DfTKBnguHMQjddoVLf8rFKk7XSPqGJKxQZHN2gIpGtAUA

A thought just occurred to me. Wasn't Motion 45 in Billy's first motions filed. IIRC it was also in Angie's and George's. For some reason. if I am correct, I think this means Jake started talking from hour one of his arrest and that why the co defendants motion was included. I am going to have to look up what motions were filed right after the 6 were arrested unless RSD, Betty, Dudley, CC or Niner has it handy.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

It is absolutely possible and plausible that any one of the three guys could have shot any or all of the guns there that night. The guns weren’t attached to a particular hand nor required a particular person to be fired. From what info has come out in public, there is no way to tell whom did what that night as far as whom shot whom or what they shot with...

It may be possible, depending on the evidence at the crime scenes. LE can analyze a scene to determine with certainty where a killer was standing, etc. when they fired shots. Remember, that's what the 3D FARO scans do.
Let's also not forget there was a lot of fighting at Chris Sr's place. A lot of dragging and repositioning bodies of fully grown adult men. Billy didn't do all of that himself.

AC continues to be very relaxed and in complete control at these hearings. If Jake had said something in his proffer that exonerated his brother, she would have taken action to amend the charges. She hasn't. She's waiting for GW4's attorneys to approach her for a plea deal or offer some proof for their assertions. Instead, all they can do is the same thing they've done from the start - attack the state, pretend they're being dishonest, pretend they're hiding evidence, etc, etc.

It's the same old song and dance with those people. All hot air. JMO Nothing new from them in the last 3 years. None of the accusations they've directed at the prosecution have been proven true.

JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

A thought just occurred to me. Wasn't Motion 45 in Billy's first motions filed. IIRC it was also in Angie's and George's. For some reason. if I am correct, I think this means Jake started talking from hour one of his arrest and that why the co defendants motion was included. I am going to have to look up what motions were filed right after the 6 were arrested unless RSD, Betty, Dudley, CC or Niner has it handy.

JMO

JW defense filed the same motion. Motion 50.
02/10/2020 #50 DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY NON-TESTIFYING CO-DEFENDANT STATEMENTS THE STATE INTENDS TO PRESENT IN ITS CASE IN CHIEF FILED Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Just remember that I had said JW probably stated in his proffer that G4 did not shoot/kill anyone.

To me it really doesn't matter if he pulled a trigger or not. If he was there and he did not stop it in the planning stage or execution stage he is just as guilty of 8 counts of aggravated murder as the others.

Keep in mind CO these people planned this for four months at least. That means George had plenty of time to make a call, even if it was an anonymous call to LE and tell them his family was planning on slaughtering another entire family over custody of a child.

Now think about yourself and your own family. If you, God forbid, ever heard your family planning to slaughter an entire family, would you make that call to LE? I have a feeling you would as would everyone else on here. And that right there is the difference between good, honest people and evil to the core, mask wearing "Avengers".

So to me whether George stayed home and watched the kids, or whether George was present, whether he fired a shot, or just stood there looking stupid and watched, he is every bit as guilty as his father, mother and brother. That also goes for any of his other family that may or may not have known about the murders before or after.

Please everyone remember those interviews with Gary's dad, Miss Geneva and Lenny where they struggled to hold back the sobs of pain and grief when they talked about their dead children. They are the real victims here that are still living with the pain, grief and horror of that night. I bet not one of them would try to downplay George's role in the killings or have one shred of sympathy for any one of the W4. Just like I do not now, nor will I ever have one shred of sympathy for any of the W4, no matter what their life was like before. And I am sure as the sun rises in the East that all 4 of them are guilty as sin.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

He may have been there but when bullets started flying, he froze. His dad may have emptied his gun and grabbed GWIV’s gun to use.

I tend to agree with you Dudley on that froze thing because when George posted that wolf on FB, Angie replied something like "A wolf" Really?"
I personally think George chickened out. But that does not make him any less guilty of murder, because he obviously did not stop it from happening.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Does anyone recall who is paying for the two women attorneys who are assisting GW4's defense team? Just curious.

 

[Covert Operative]

To me it really doesn't matter if he pulled a trigger or not. If he was there and he did not stop it in the planning stage or execution stage he is just as guilty of 8 counts of aggravated murder as the others.

Keep in mind CO these people planned this for four months at least. That means George had plenty of time to make a call, even if it was an anonymous call to LE and tell them his family was planning on slaughtering another entire family over custody of a child.

Now think about yourself and your own family. If you, God forbid, ever heard your family planning to slaughter an entire family, would you make that call to LE? I have a feeling you would as would everyone else on here. And that right there is the difference between good, honest people and evil to the core, mask wearing "Avengers".

So to me whether George stayed home and watched the kids, or whether George was present, whether he fired a shot, or just stood there looking stupid and watched, he is every bit as guilty as his father, mother and brother. That also goes for any of his other family that may or may not have known about the murders before or after.

Please everyone remember those interviews with Gary's dad, Miss Geneva and Lenny where they struggled to hold back the sobs of pain and grief when they talked about their dead children. They are the real victims here that are still living with the pain, grief and horror of that night. I bet not one of them would try to downplay George's role in the killings or have one shred of sympathy for any one of the W4. Just like I do not now, nor will I ever have one shred of sympathy for any of the W4, no matter what their life was like before. And I am sure as the sun rises in the East that all 4 of them are guilty as sin.

JMO

Thanks for you long post but the issue is the motion and whether or not JW said in his proffer that G4 was there. I believe they are all guilty and deserve the DP. <modsnip> My personal feeling and the legal issues are not one in the same. Some people cannot seperate the two and discuss the actual topic.
<modsnip>

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Great comment, so true.

Personally, I still think GW4 did participate in the murders. He just happens to have a defense team that thinks they're F Lee Bailey and Racehorse Haynes rolled into one.

If GW4 wants to convince me he didn't kill any members of the Rhoden family, he'll have to prove it.

Absolutely agree!!!!!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

JW defense filed the same motion. Motion 50.
02/10/2020 #50 DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY NON-TESTIFYING CO-DEFENDANT STATEMENTS THE STATE INTENDS TO PRESENT IN ITS CASE IN CHIEF FILED Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W

Thank you CO. Good find and fast too!!!! You know me, it takes me hours to get around to looking anything up. It is a well established fact on here that I am either too busy or too lazy to search for anything. Haha. You are a very valuable member of this board and very well informed about this case.

JMO