GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

[Chelly]

Wish George had gone with the speedy trial option.

 

[Fat Old Man]

In my humble opinion. By George going to trial, we will see Jake being treated as a hostile witness. They will catch him in a lie. And both he and Angela plea deals will be tossed.

 

[almond]

Ok, Wilson is on the Prosecution team.
And it was Betty's post that made a mess of.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM
Canepa said Jake said in his proffer that George didn't shoot anyone but she also said that doesn't mean that he actually did not.

In other words Jake could be covering, lying for George, my words.

And Jake contradicted himself at times in the proffer.

Said many times on here they got their stories straight in AK. They had 2 plus years to get it word perfect. My 4 year old great grand can repeat his fav tv show word for word. So even Billy got it right in 2 plus years.

Their story, George didn't shoot anyone, so let him get a sweet deal.
JMO

You said this before and now it looks like you were right. I doubted it.

Angie stayed home - I was right √

They planned all along if arrested to say George didn't shoot anyone -
You were right √

So why implicate George at all?

Because the prosecution wouldn't buy it and the families wouldn't buy it to say George is innocent. Canepa said they appreciated Jake giving closure to the families so to say George knew nothing would have flown in the face of that.

There can't be some closure if Jake is saying his brother had nothing to do with it. Jake had to give them something on George but less than murder to get him out.

Does this make sense?

 

[Betty P]

George Wagner IV Hearing - full video Law & Crime
December 22, 2021

Noteworthy points in this video of the hearing

44:00 - 45:00 Defense begins argument, going back on what had been agreed upon in judge's chambers just prior to this hearing. He was not supposed to discuss details of Jake's proffer in this hearing

45:07 - AC reminds the judge about this and defense claims they have to talk about the evidence anyway.

45:22 - AC objects again to clarify that Jake won't be coming to testify at this hearing, nor Agent Scheiderer and evidence from Jake's proffer won't be discussed in that hearing. Defense attorney goes on to misrepresent what AC said, as if they are refusing the defense to present any of this evidence - ever.

46:19 - AC objects and asks judge if they can approach the bench.

49:42 - Defense tries to admit an exhibit, AC objects that they shouldn't do that as evidence is under seal and what they're trying to discuss isn't relevant to the argument they're making for the motion. Judge sustains AC's objection

49:06 - Judge Deering states that the court doesn't want to get into the position of trying the case before the trial. Judge states the exhibit is bits and pieces of Jake's proffer, which, overall is 12 hours long

50:59 - AC affirms that these are just small parts of Jakes 12 hour statement, mentions that he contradicted himself during that time. Those snippets are not representative of his entire statement Jake made. Sustained.

Defense attorney begins arguments to drop counts 1 through 8 against George. Makes some unusual argument that since we don't submit people with intellectual disabilities to the DP, then we should do the same for George. Makes a very dishonest argument. Judge points out the state has offered a plea deal to George. Defense atty admits the state offered a plea deal to George and he turned it down.

56:25 - Defense attorney states "the state made a deal with the devil". Tries to make it sound like Jake did it all himself, killed everyone himself.

57:09 - AC begins her rebuttal, during which she states there were 4 devils, etc.

 

[Cool Cats]

Noteworthy points in this video of the hearing

44:00 - 45:00 Defense begins argument, going back on what had been agreed upon in judge's chambers just prior to this hearing. He was not supposed to discuss details of Jake's proffer in this hearing

45:07 - AC reminds the judge about this and defense claims they have to talk about the evidence anyway.

45:22 - AC objects again to clarify that Jake won't be coming to testify at this hearing, nor Agent Scheiderer and evidence from Jake's proffer won't be discussed in that hearing. Defense attorney goes on to misrepresent what AC said, as if they are refusing the defense to present any of this evidence - ever.

46:19 - AC objects and asks judge if they can approach the bench.

49:42 - Defense tries to admit an exhibit, AC objects that they shouldn't do that as evidence is under seal and what they're trying to discuss isn't relevant to the argument they're making for the motion. Judge sustains AC's objection

49:06 - Judge Deering states that the court doesn't want to get into the position of trying the case before the trial. Judge states the exhibit is bits and pieces of Jake's proffer, which, overall is 12 hours long

50:59 - AC affirms that these are just small parts of Jakes 12 hour statement, mentions that he contradicted himself during that time. Those snippets are not representative of his entire statement Jake made. Sustained.

Defense attorney begins arguments to drop counts 1 through 8 against George. Makes some unusual argument that since we don't submit people with intellectual disabilities to the DP, then we should do the same for George. Makes a very dishonest argument. Judge points out the state has offered a plea deal to George. Defense atty admits the state offered a plea deal to George and he turned it down.

56:25 - Defense attorney states "the state made a deal with the devil". Tries to make it sound like Jake did it all himself, killed everyone himself.

57:09 - AC begins her rebuttal, during which she states there were 4 devils, etc.

56:25 - Defense attorney states "the state made a deal with the devil". Tries to make it sound like Jake did it all himself, killed everyone himself.

57:09 - AC begins her rebuttal, during which she states there were 4 devils, etc.

4 Devils speaks volumes. Hear that @Johnny B Bad?

Thanks. I was hoping you would do this (your synopsis) like you usually do.

I always find it helpful. Good work.

 

[joe jones]

missed the hearing so just catching up, guess next year their will be two trials at least

 

[altojack]

I think it was fairly early in the hearing, after AC had called for a conference at the bench with the Judge. They were trying to set rules on what the defense could read out loud in court from Jake's proffer. They reached agreement, then Parker went back to the podium and continued with his statement. He made the remark about the prosecution making a "deal with the devil" as quoted in the link above. When he finished and AC made her argument, she made her statement about there being more devils - the 4 Wagners.

I heard Parker before and after going up to Judge Deering, him going on about Jakes proffer but didn't hear about the deal with the devil or devils. Hubby questions whether I nodded off for a few minutes, cheeky b, impossible. Not meeee. I'm here all day tomorrow so I'll listen again. I hate missing bits of info.
Parker isn't doing himself any favours here, he's no help to George either being argumentative to AC or to the judge. It's obvious he's playing to the press, and the public but it won't work. George is as guilty as the other three.

 

[Penelope Pitstop]

Noteworthy points in this video of the hearing

44:00 - 45:00 Defense begins argument, going back on what had been agreed upon in judge's chambers just prior to this hearing. He was not supposed to discuss details of Jake's proffer in this hearing

45:07 - AC reminds the judge about this and defense claims they have to talk about the evidence anyway.

45:22 - AC objects again to clarify that Jake won't be coming to testify at this hearing, nor Agent Scheiderer and evidence from Jake's proffer won't be discussed in that hearing. Defense attorney goes on to misrepresent what AC said, as if they are refusing the defense to present any of this evidence - ever.

46:19 - AC objects and asks judge if they can approach the bench.

49:42 - Defense tries to admit an exhibit, AC objects that they shouldn't do that as evidence is under seal and what they're trying to discuss isn't relevant to the argument they're making for the motion. Judge sustains AC's objection

49:06 - Judge Deering states that the court doesn't want to get into the position of trying the case before the trial. Judge states the exhibit is bits and pieces of Jake's proffer, which, overall is 12 hours long

50:59 - AC affirms that these are just small parts of Jakes 12 hour statement, mentions that he contradicted himself during that time. Those snippets are not representative of his entire statement Jake made. Sustained.

Defense attorney begins arguments to drop counts 1 through 8 against George. Makes some unusual argument that since we don't submit people with intellectual disabilities to the DP, then we should do the same for George. Makes a very dishonest argument. Judge points out the state has offered a plea deal to George. Defense atty admits the state offered a plea deal to George and he turned it down.

56:25 - Defense attorney states "the state made a deal with the devil". Tries to make it sound like Jake did it all himself, killed everyone himself.

57:09 - AC begins her rebuttal, during which she states there were 4 devils, etc.

I applauded AC for saying “ there were 4 devils” !

 

[LMDlong]

Did I hear correctly that George's atty was the atty for the defense in that decision?

Yep that’s what AC said.

 

[Tiff23fr]

I will never believe George did not shoot anyone.

If "George never had the specific intent to kill," what was his specific intent at the murder scenes? Move bodies around? Drive the vehicle? Add moral support?

I was thinking the exact same thing as I was catching up.

I can’t see this argument flying very far. He knew the plan and he took part in the plan. IMO

 

[joe jones]

I don't mind the defence attorneys, I think they are doing the best they can considering what they are up against, but when his atty says he had no intent to kill I was astonished, all 4 of them had intent,

I still think GW the younger killed nobody, the state has hung its case and credibility on agreeing with JW proffer, and they could not go to court accepting and relying on JW proffer if they have other evidence (or any lingering doubts) that shows GW the younger shot anybody, as that would make JW a liar, and his plea deal not truthful, so I find her argument disingenuous when she stated we accept GW the younger didn't shoot anybody only due to JW proffer, they can't have it both ways, as they would be subpoenaing perjury if they go to court believing JW to already be a liar if they have evidence showing GW the younger shot at/and or killed one or more of the victims,

 

[Betty P]

My transcription of the hearing today.

Note: There may be errors. It was transcribed on the fly. Pardon grammar, some opinions, expletives have been deleted. My opinions are in parentheses w/ JMO

Some of the statements having to do with motions may have errors. Judge corrected himself a couple of times. Check the case file


George Wagner hearing 12/22/2021



George enters. Judge enters

Feb 2 9 am – another pre-trial hearing

Motion 61 – will be motion to exclude photos of guns, ammo, defense withdrawing

Other Acts – renewed as Motion 77 – state filed Feb 22 notice of intent to use Other Acts

Defense will file an objection to those. Will be filed before Jan 7, state respond Jan 21. Both sides can orally argue. Motions 75 and 64

Motion 73 – to dismiss murder and death penalty, oral argument today

Motion 62 – court denied

Motion 63 – government must reveal other agreements, motion was granted, court complied. State has continuing duty to provide any subsequent agreements

67, 68,69,70,

72

State met 70, motion re Jake’s mental health, quashed, satisfies motion 71

Reciprocal discovery, both sides granted, have until Dec 31

Transport Jake Wagner – state filed contra Def 75, defense replied. Court overruled motion to transport Jake. Court may consider depending on outcome of hearing today.

Admissibility of shoeprint evidence Jan 21 state has to file response

Motion 73 – Will be argued today. Some stipulations parties have entered into

Defense wants them to dismiss counts 1-8 and DP. Based on Jake Wagner’s proffer, according to Jake, George didn’t shoot anyone. Jake admitted to killing 5 and shooting a 6th. AC says Jake's entire proffer has different information about whether George shot anyone.

AC objects to discussion of any more evidence. Ask that court not consider it, according to stipulation they all agreed on. Apparently the defense is violating the stipulation. AC said defense trying to improperly leak information.

AC objecting again. Ask to approach. Defense keeps violating the rule. AC wants it on record.

(All of this should be heard at trial, defense trying their case in the news media) JMO

Defense exhibit one –

AC says court will not consider as evidence. Court sustains the objection. Court doesn’t want to try the case before the trial. He will allow them to talk about the exhibit, bits and pieces of Jake’s proffer.



(******** is trying to sway potential jury pool) JMO



Defense atty: These 10 snippets may not be the truth. Definite contradictory statements, also Jake and Angela Wagner.

Says its unfair to make GW subject to DP when Jake isn’t. (Just make him cut a plea deal). Defense asking that GW get DP off the table.

(JMO, they will use this same argument to get Billy off the hook) JMO

Claims state will dismiss DP for George eventually (not true, conjecture)

Judge asks if motion can be renewed.

Blah, blah, waste of state resources to continue to pursue DP against George.

Sounds like state doesn’t believe that Jake is telling the truth about George not shooting.

State has option to make a plea deal with George. They have made that offer and George rejected it. Defense says it doesn’t matter, George shouldn’t get the DP anyway.

George refused to make a plea agreement with the state

State is NOT stipulating that GW didn’t shoot anyone. Only according to Jake’s proffer

AC – made the same offer to all 4 co-defendants – Jake led to evidence, vehicle, details, etc. 12 hours. Offer was made available to all. Remorse is a factor court to consider. Sentence has not imposed sentence on Jake Wagner yet. If he doesn’t live up to the bargain, he will be subject to DP. Deal with devil, there are 4 devils in this case. Jake provided some peace to the victims, family, etc.

George Wagner stands the chance to get his DP charges dismissed. State hasn’t been capricious. Offered to all, same fair deal. Not grounds for reversal as long as a sentence is a legal sentence. It is in this case DP applies if jury recommends it. It’s a legal sentence. State vs Dean. OH Supreme Court ruled on it.

SCOTUS says DP is not cruel and unusual.

If Jake fulfills his end of the bargain, both he and George don’t face the DP. All treated equal. Complicity is treated the same principle offense, punishment is the same. Court not consider any references made to the motion. Not a complete rendition of what Jake said re his brother as a complicitor. Focusing on dispare treatment, were notified, Bill of Particulars also told them he could be prosecuted as a complicitor, DP specification also speaks in that language. Premeditated crime.

Asks judge to dismiss motion.

Judge – points of agreement, court may consider agreement made with Jake. Defense understands complicity argument. Says George never had intent to kill anyone (total BS JMO). AC says that argument should be saved for trial.

Court denies motion 73.

AC – Supplemental Discovery info. Dec 31. Change to Jan 7.



(Sounds like George Wagner turned down the plea deal in order to get pre-trial publicity about Jake’s proffer statements.) JMO

 

[Betty P]

In my humble opinion. By George going to trial, we will see Jake being treated as a hostile witness. They will catch him in a lie. And both he and Angela plea deals will be tossed.

Interesting point, it's possible. OTOH, Jake is enough of a narcissist that, when it comes time to take the stand, he'll save his own bacon. He won't risk getting the DP just to help George. Can't say I blame him.

OT, I still find it ludicrous that Billy insists he is innocent. He and George are such arrogant entitled people for cold blooded killers. Their complete lack of remorse won't help them at all

 

[Cool Cats]

Rhoden killings: Attorney for George Wagner IV says prosecutors 'made a deal with the devil'

In a brief but fiery hearing in Pike County Common Pleas Court Wednesday, a defense attorney argued that pursuing aggravated murder charges and the death penalty against the oldest brother charged in the Rhoden family homicides of 2016 is "an absolute abuse of power" by prosecutors.

But Judge Randy D. Deering disagreed.

After the roughly 35-minute hearing, Deering ruled that the aggravated murder charges would stand against 30-year-old George Wagner IV, and that the death penalty remains an option.

The defense lawyers say that Jake Wagner told prosecutors during his confession (which prosecutors call a proffer) that George Wagner IV didn't shoot anyone that night.

But during Wednesday's hearing, special prosecutor Angela Canepa told Deering she thought there was something important to note: "We are not stipulating that George Wagner did not shoot anybody. We are stipulating that according to Jake Wagner's proffer, George did not shoot anybody. That's an important distinction."

Prior to Wednesday's hearing, defense attorneys Richard Nash and John Parker had asked the judge to allow Jake Wagner to testify in court about what his brother did and did not do the night of the homicides. The judge denied that request.

So at the start of the hearing, Parker started to read aloud in court 10 excerpts of Jake Wagner's 12-hour confession. Canepa objected and fired back, saying it was clear the attorneys wanted to try the case before it ever got to trial.

The judge did not allow the excerpts to be read.

 

[Chelly]

Jake is a stinking, murdering, lying rat. Just because Jake said George didn't shoot anyone, doesn't make it true. Never believed that, never will.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

You said this before and now it looks like you were right. I doubted it.

Angie stayed home - I was right √

They planned all along if arrested to say George didn't shoot anyone -
You were right √

So why implicate George at all?

Because the prosecution wouldn't buy it and the families wouldn't buy it to say George is innocent. Canepa said they appreciated Jake giving closure to the families so to say George knew nothing would have flown in the face of that.

There can't be some closure if Jake is saying his brother had nothing to do with it. Jake had to give them something on George but less than murder to get him out.

Does this make sense?

BBM

They planned all along if arrested to say George didn't shoot anyone -
You were right √
You know I have made a couple improvements on that swamp land. Built a boat dock and fishing shed, complete with lines to catch gators and traps to catch water moccasins. Gonna cost you more to buy it back now. lol

Does this make sense?
Absolutely!!!! They are so many people who could and would testify to how enmeshed the wag family is they knew there was no way LE would buy George sat it all out. So they had to give him a minimal part so LE would buy it. Too many witnesses to how close they all are for it to work any other way.

Besides AC said they had a reliable resource to how they planned to get one of them out to get revenge and break the others out. No doubt it was George they all planned to lie about and say he shot nobody.

My only question? Who is nobody? lol

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Noteworthy points in this video of the hearing

44:00 - 45:00 Defense begins argument, going back on what had been agreed upon in judge's chambers just prior to this hearing. He was not supposed to discuss details of Jake's proffer in this hearing

45:07 - AC reminds the judge about this and defense claims they have to talk about the evidence anyway.

45:22 - AC objects again to clarify that Jake won't be coming to testify at this hearing, nor Agent Scheiderer and evidence from Jake's proffer won't be discussed in that hearing. Defense attorney goes on to misrepresent what AC said, as if they are refusing the defense to present any of this evidence - ever.

46:19 - AC objects and asks judge if they can approach the bench.

49:42 - Defense tries to admit an exhibit, AC objects that they shouldn't do that as evidence is under seal and what they're trying to discuss isn't relevant to the argument they're making for the motion. Judge sustains AC's objection

49:06 - Judge Deering states that the court doesn't want to get into the position of trying the case before the trial. Judge states the exhibit is bits and pieces of Jake's proffer, which, overall is 12 hours long

50:59 - AC affirms that these are just small parts of Jakes 12 hour statement, mentions that he contradicted himself during that time. Those snippets are not representative of his entire statement Jake made. Sustained.

Defense attorney begins arguments to drop counts 1 through 8 against George. Makes some unusual argument that since we don't submit people with intellectual disabilities to the DP, then we should do the same for George. Makes a very dishonest argument. Judge points out the state has offered a plea deal to George. Defense atty admits the state offered a plea deal to George and he turned it down.

56:25 - Defense attorney states "the state made a deal with the devil". Tries to make it sound like Jake did it all himself, killed everyone himself.

57:09 - AC begins her rebuttal, during which she states there were 4 devils, etc.

Anyone notice how furious George was when he stalked out of that courtroom? He didn't even wait for his escort, just jumped up and literally stomped out. lol

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Just exactly what did GW4 do that night on Union Hill Road????
Back in the day the summer after the murders it first got out that Chris Sr. Was shot through a door into the face this was way before it was told by LE! That phrase was quickly taken down but before it disappeared the same person wrote that Little Christ had a busted mouth so now I ask you what just did George Wagner iv do during the time Billy was doing what he was doing at Big Chris house and you all know that Jake Wagner was to bigger chicken to kill the rest of the Rhodens by himself, JMO

 

[Niner]

Just to clarify - which motions were withdrawn by defense.


At the hearing on October 25, 2021, the Defendant withdrew the following motions:
DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 66, filed on February 19, 2021, entitled "MOTION TO SET PRETRIAL HEARING"

DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 67, filed on March 23, 2021, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO EXCLUDE EVIDENCE (DISCOVERY VIOLATION)

DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 68, filed on March 26, 2021, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DEPOSE CRITICAL WITNESS PURSUANT TO CRIM. R. 15"

DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 69, filed on June 8, 2021, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SUPPLEMENTARY DISCOVERY"

DEFENDANT'S MOTION NO. 72, filed on August 16, 2021, entitled "MOTION TO COMPEL DISCOVERY AND FOR SANCTIONS"

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...O1d*zosgXhN2dr5iSXvoD9Shl0rMl2xCym5hPq4*J8RdA