OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #74

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I think this testimony from Tabitha is crucial in showing the dynamic between the Wagners and how it relates to the murders. While the prosecution isn’t required to show “why” the murders happened or “why” 4 people decided together to carry them out, showing evidence of the lengths they will go to and how enmeshed they are with one another will go a long way in the jury’s eyes in helping them wrap their heads around how this could happen.
 
A 24 year old “young man” shoots 5 people numerous times in the head in one night is a psychopath. My nephews brother in law is a deputy in Russellville Ky. He responded to a call at the Walmart for a man threatening people in the parking lot. He had to shoot this man and the man died. He was traumatized by this, a trained deputy. He is still somewhat traumatized over a year later. Yet, JW did it as easily as shooting bottles off a fence post. Seriously a overindulged, over influenced psychopath. My opinion only.
 
Three reasons this seems slow:
1. TC doesn't respond immediately. I'm no trauma expert, but I watch her look up after nearly every question and she seems to be reliving what happened to her. She answers in short phrases and then AC has to draw out the information with 2-3 more questions.
2. AC asks "leading questions" to which the defense objects and the judge sustains. Or the judge stops her and tells her to rephrase.
3. The defense is trying to disrupt this testimony because it makes George4 look very very bad and very much part of a "kitchen table" conspiracy cult.

If these jurors don't know about the case, my guess is they are gobsmacked by what they're hearing. I thought I knew what had gone on but no, nope, nopety nope. This is way worse than I thought it was.
I worked as a victim advocate for our county DV shelter for 9 years. The "fight or flight" that kicks in can take years to get over - if at all. This is PTSD. The anxiety it creates can/will take over the body both mentally and physically in ways that last and can debilitate you. It can cause lasting physical effects and sometimes cause a cognitive disability. The littlest thing can trigger a thought or scene - like a movie - that you experienced from the abuse. I give her tons of praise and credit for getting up on the stand to tell her story. Sadly even though she has her son back and has a husband and two other children and you would think that would make everything ok now, it never completely leaves you. Even if you can gain some strength and you appear stronger you basically just learn to live with it.
 
I don't understand why she allowed GW custody of her son after AW threatened to get a gun to her, surely if she told the courts GW would have been the one getting supervised visits,

that said GW was given sole custody of his son by Tabitha and from then on AW was never going to voluntarily give him back
I doubt she had the resources to fight, for one, and, I think , that she may have had visitation of some type (iirc).

My thoughts at the time, were that doping the baby was to distract her, so they could get gone to AK. IIRC she was visiting her son, for a holiday, when the baby was doped. Most visitation agreements have a limit of the radius of miles, that a custodial parent, can move away from the non-custodial parent. If memory serves, it was shortly after, that they made plans to head north, to AK.
 
AC is probably aware of her cognitive skills or maybe TC is on meds and she needs some urging to get her thoughts together.

IIRC, AC worked many years prosecuting domestic violence cases, so she's probably proceeding this way based on experience.

JMO, she probably used this experience in fully understanding how to pursue the perps.

ETA: AC is also now building on these messages between the girls about domestic violence and custody fights with the Wagners to show how Angela Wagner began hacking into these messages, subsequently hatching the plan to kill Hanna. AW or Jake has been reading all these messages, JMO
 
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The Wagner's made TC look bad, trying to get her arrested, accusing her of poisoning them, and probably the baby too. Imo, the judge bought it hook line and sinker. TC didn't have a chance to get custody. She was terrified of the Wagner's. It was 4 against 1. Moo.
 
Just thinking. According to JW- The original plan was for GW to make the first shots. I think he did but JW says he waited too long so JW took over. I think maybe this is just trying to lessen GW's involvement and he really did fire the rifle. Even if he didn't the plan was for him to fire first. So = all for one and one for all.
Gets them off the death penalty and maybe even gets GW a 'lessor' sentence but maybe not true.
 
Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
LIVE: Pike County murder trial: Ex-wife of George Wagner IV returns to stand - ⁦@CFranciscoWCPO
⁩ & ⁦@paulweedenWCPO
⁩ are in Waverly for @wcpo
today->

George

Before the jury arrives, defense attorney John Parker is arguing some concerns over other weapons evidence - says other capital cases have been overturned when non-murder weapons are introduced as evidence

Parker says he wants to bring it up now - so Judge Deering understands when he objects to photos of weapons, ammo, etc not related to the murders - he cites those from Billy's bedroom


Prosecution's response to this is that any evidence of weapons - "will have probative value tailored to the case."

Andy Wilson says the court will hear an inventory of guns from Jake Wagner's in the next day or so. Ties a .40 and SKS to #GeorgeWagnerIV


link: https://twitter.com/evanmillward
 
Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
3h
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Tabitha Claytor returns to the stand. She was married to #GeorgeWagnerIV and has a son with him.

Tabitha1.jpg


She testified yesterday to Wagner family dynamics - today calls them "strange and controlling."

Claytor says "If Angela [Wagner] made a rule, you had to follow that rule."

Angela wouldn't let her breastfeed Bulvine because he was still crying & must have still been hungry. Went against lactation specialist rec.

Special prosecutor Angela Canepa asks Claytor about special Wagner family meetings - she says she was asked to leave. She says the family would "usually argue" and then she would be told of the outcome later.

Lots of objections and back-and-forth here.

Claytor says the Wagners created a "Tabitha Wagner" Facebook account for her - that she only found out about from friends & family.

It falsely said she worked at a motel and lived in Marion.

Claytor says she was unfaithful to George while she worked at Crystal Springs (care center Frederick Wagner owns). She was pregnant with Bulvine at the time.

Restrictions got harsher: she was let go, George factory reset her phone; not allowed outside.

Claytor says she wasn't able to parent Bulvine the way she wanted. Angela would make her take a nap so she could play with him.

Wanted to get her own place with George, "so I could have a little more freedom." George wouldn't move out.

Claytor says she and George fought about cleaning the kitchen after Angela made lunch - and George slapped her.

She didn't clean because she was trying to get Bulvine to nap.

This is when she decided to leave.

Claytor says she and Angela started fighting - George came home and hit her with a belt and wouldn't let her go outside. She wanted some air to help calm down.

She bit George's armpit "and tried to rip his nuts off."

She took off out of the house.

Claytor says Angela threw a 2x4 board at her as she waked from the house - threatened to go get a gun.

George threatened to smack her if she kept screaming. He hit her in the face.

This is clearly still really painful for her - she's gotten pretty emotional.

Tabitha2.jpg

Claytor says she ran and hid under George's truck after Angela threatened to get a gun.

She stayed there until dark - and saw multiple flashlights come out of the house. They never found her.

Claytor says she got her bicycle and rode to a gas station to call her mom.

George and Jake were in their red Suburban - tried to get her to come home.

"I told them I wasn't going to live with them if they were going to hit me."

Claytor used the gas station clerk's cell phone to call her mom, who picked up her about 1.5-2 hours later.

Declined to call police.

Says the Wagners and Hanna showed up with police. Claytor waited in the cruiser.

Wagners filed a domestic violence complaint against Claytor - alleged she "Was causing a big fuss and dragging my child across the floor."

She denies that accusation.

Claytor never pressed charges that night.

She says George gave her money to pay some fine - and the charges were eventually dropped.

George filed for divorce/dissolution a couple weeks later.

Claytor didn't have an attorney, a job, or a house at the time - so George had their son.

At first she thought they would do 50/50 shared parenting. She signs agreement thinking they would agree on visits - but that didn't happen.

Took 1 year to see son.

Claytor says she tried to see her son multiple times, but "George wouldn't let me."

George would always say 'not right now.'

First time was at a McDonalds - to drop off Christmas presents - 13 months after she left. (Nov 2014 -Dec 2015)

Claytor says there were multiple times she arrived at the Wagners' home and her son was not present. Or George would tell her last-minute that they weren't home.

Her family couldn't come with her for visits "because [George] did not like them."

Claytor says she saw her son 7-8 times, all at George Wagner's house.

Got a free consultation with an attorney in 2015 about visitation issues. He said to send George Ohio's shared parenting plan - document everything.

Claytor says when she visited her son, he did not recognize her as mom.

Especially after the murders, "George told me not to mention anything about a mother," because his cousin has just lost their mom.

Claytor says she got no advance notice the Wagners were moving to Alaska with her son - a friend told her a couple weeks afterward.

She calls George and asks why. "He said it's his son and he needs to do what's best for him."

Claytor filed for custody - and got it - in 2018. This is the year the Wagners were arrested for these crimes.

Claytor clarifies she got custody in 2018 as the result of court action, not George agreeing to it.

After one visit, OSHP pulls Claytor over after a report that she was waving a gun around and had drugs in her car. Trooper never looked after she offered to have her car searched.

She says she had never had a drug problem.

In 2016, her six-month-old daughter became unresponsive. Tests at ER showed drugs in her system.

She had been with Claytor at the Wagners' that day - daughter was only out of view when she went to the bathroom and gave her to Angela.

Claytor says the ER test found Xanax in the baby's system.

No one in her family is prescribed Xanax. She had only been to Wagner's that day.

Then, there was a Children's Services investigation. She & husband had to do a drug test a week later - negative.

Eventually, she expressed concern about the Wagners. The drug incident happened while she was trying to get custody.

Her son, Bulvine, is now in her custody.

Claytor said she would message Hanna Rhoden over Facebook - through her created account, not the fake one.

Never gave passwords or permissions to anyone else.

Canepa is showing Claytor copies of some messages between her and Hanna Rhoden.

Tabitha3.jpg

First message she reads is from Hanna - "I just want to say I’m sorry for being a when you was down there and being rude and *advertiser censored*. That’s honestly not who I am, that’s who I was told to be"

Another message exchange is about Hanna and Jake's upcoming custody battle. Claytor writes: "e are dealing with Angela. You know how she gets when it comes to Vine and Suds [Bulvine & Sophia]."

In another lengthy exchange between Tabitha and Hanna May, Tabitha explains that George uses the fact that she and her sisters were molested at a young age by a family member as the reason he doesn't want her family around.

Back from lunch, Tabitha Claytor remains on the stand. We are still in direct for her - this has been a long one.

Claytor is still reading Facebook conversations she had with Hanna Rhoden - often commiserating over their child custody issues.

Hanna also left the Wagner house after a fight - she says Jake choked her.

link: https://twitter.com/evanmillward
 
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