OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #80

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You make good points and are probably right on this. They complained some about the news media on the record, but they also have a history in pre-trial of trying to use the news media to help their case. Remember, they were warned by the judge when they kept trying to violate the gag order by releasing information in pre-trial hearings, which were filmed live by the news media.

Someone with some juice got behind this appeals court effort and talked the 4th District Appeals Court to make a big mistake. They had to reverse the decision. As you say, it wasn't the defense team this time, but someone backing the news media cause.

Maybe someone who is afraid of adverse media coverage in an upcoming election?

JMO
 
Here's a question maybe you can answer: would the judge seek out an opinion from someone else, especially since the matter of hearings was raised by the first decision but never described in a way that would guide the court?
I'm sure the Judge spoke with his clerk, whatever attorney was representing the Court and he likely called other District Judges to get their thoughts.
 
I don't believe he had to talk AW and GW in to anything!!!! So he just took it all??? That was a lie and a tad cavalier IMO????
Anyone think the case will go off the rail with the defense cross??
No, I think the defense will try to get it off the rail. Then on re direct AC will clear up anything that was left in limbo.

Jake, did you initially say you did it all because you wanted to protect your family? Did you feel it ws your fault because the motive was Sophia? Yes, Yes, Yes.

I think the nature of the initial "lies" will matter. He was attempting to take the burden off his family.

He was not trying to deny responsibility and pin it all on someone else. I think this will be what keeps the jurors believing him. If he is as matter of fact as tweets suggest he is in stating what happened. I think he will be believable. So unless he gets on the stand and starts telling multiple versions, I think his testimony will be fine.

What he initially said in the proffer was a version of the truth. Then upon showing him evidence that he was not the only shooter he was forced to say in fact his dad did shoot. He was trying to take the full blame and then walked back from that not because the prosecutors didn't know what happened, but because they DID know and he realized he couldn't get off with saying he did it all.

At least this is how I would view it as a juror.

Now if he on direct said his dad shot someone and then on re direct it came out that in fact Jake did it.. I'd raise my eyebrows for sure. I don't hear that happening though. I hear a participate trying to take the blame which is likely not something that often happens. It's usually the opposite and a defendant says I didn't do it and later it's shown he did.

I hope that explains my thinking.. it makes sense in my head, but I don't always get it into words well. lol
 
and according to JW after he shot HG and FR BW shot FR after JW gave him the gun so he could look for cell phones and casings, even though most of the casings were left at FR
I think he said he gave up because it was a mess. Recall that house was fairly messy/cluttered, possibly because they had just moved in and Dana had just moved out a month or so prior.
 
I don't believe he had to talk AW and GW in to anything!!!! So he just took it all??? That was a lie and a tad cavalier IMO????
Anyone think the case will go off the rail with the defense cross??

More objections for sure.

Aren't they ALL 4 charged in all 8 murders? Reckon that's what he means? He plead guilty to all 8 murders? Even though he only killed 5 (Like THAT makes a difference!) so he feels like he took them all?
 
No, I think the defense will try to get it off the rail. Then on re direct AC will clear up anything that was left in limbo.

Jake, did you initially say you did it all because you wanted to protect your family? Did you feel it ws your fault because the motive was Sophia? Yes, Yes, Yes.

I think the nature of the initial "lies" will matter. He was attempting to take the burden off his family.

He was not trying to deny responsibility and pin it all on someone else. I think this will be what keeps the jurors believing him. If he is as matter of fact as tweets suggest he is in stating what happened. I think he will be believable. So unless he gets on the stand and starts telling multiple versions, I think his testimony will be fine.

What he initially said in the proffer was a version of the truth. Then upon showing him evidence that he was not the only shooter he was forced to say in fact his dad did shoot. He was trying to take the full blame and then walked back from that not because the prosecutors didn't know what happened, but because they DID know and he realized he couldn't get off with saying he did it all.

At least this is how I would view it as a juror.

Now if he on direct said his dad shot someone and then on re direct it came out that in fact Jake did it.. I'd raise my eyebrows for sure. I don't hear that happening though. I hear a participate trying to take the blame which is likely not something that often happens. It's usually the opposite and a defendant says I didn't do it and later it's shown he did.

I hope that explains my thinking.. it makes sense in my head, but I don't always get it into words well. lol
the only evidence of who shot who comes from JW, doesn't matter how many guns used that is not evidence, only JW says who shot who, not the prosecutors showing him they have evidence, and if he said he shot 8 then the defense needs to mention it at every opportunity, he was revising his story as late as July where he is now saying he shot FR twice, he shot all the bullets at HG, but he now remembers in July he gave BW the gun and BW shot FR again,

all the defense can do is make the jury listen carefully to JW, and make them decide if they can convict a man solely on the word of a man who has lied, and whose story changed over time,
I doubt they will succeed as I have previously posted there has been so many crime scene photos that the jury saw over days that IMO emotion will override critical examination of the evidence,
 
the only evidence of who shot who comes from JW, doesn't matter how many guns used that is not evidence, only JW says who shot who, not the prosecutors showing him they have evidence, and if he said he shot 8 then the defense needs to mention it at every opportunity, he was revising his story as late as July where he is now saying he shot FR twice, he shot all the bullets at HG, but he now remembers in July he gave BW the gun and BW shot FR again,

all the defense can do is make the jury listen carefully to JW, and make them decide if they can convict a man solely on the word of a man who has lied, and whose story changed over time,
I doubt they will succeed as I have previously posted there has been so many crime scene photos that the jury saw over days that IMO emotion will override critical examination of the evidence,
True. I believe most of what he said the previous two days, but today‘s testimony had some problems. MOO. Somehow I don’t believe Billy was even in FR/HG’s home. It was either Jake alone or Jake and George. Also, this quote about Billy: “He was frustrated with me because of what he had, per se, been made to do because of me, and asked if I regretted doing the homicides.” Made to do? On Monday Jake said the murders were Billy’s idea.

And no way in h$#@ do I believe this: “Jake also said his mother and brother tried to talk him out of the murders and that his mother lied to cover for him.“ Angela lying yes, but no one tried to talk anyone out of the murders! And if George had done so, he would have been first to take a plea. IMO
 
After reading the Order and forming my own opinion, it seems clear that that the judge is defying the order. MOO
That is my take also. And P&N are going to file a motion based on that order for a mistrial. No Doubt. And get the trial moved out of Deerings court for the next one.

JMO
 
the only evidence of who shot who comes from JW, doesn't matter how many guns used that is not evidence, only JW says who shot who, not the prosecutors showing him they have evidence, and if he said he shot 8 then the defense needs to mention it at every opportunity, he was revising his story as late as July where he is now saying he shot FR twice, he shot all the bullets at HG, but he now remembers in July he gave BW the gun and BW shot FR again,

all the defense can do is make the jury listen carefully to JW, and make them decide if they can convict a man solely on the word of a man who has lied, and whose story changed over time,
I doubt they will succeed as I have previously posted there has been so many crime scene photos that the jury saw over days that IMO emotion will override critical examination of the evidence,
Oh for sure the defense will mention Jake said he shot 8 every chance they get.

I think the evidence does suggest multiple participants so if Jake's deal rests on him telling the truth or he could face the DP and that is his motivation for taking a deal, then I would think as prosecutors question his version and present things or question something in a different way, he likely picked up on that and decided he wanted to live more than he wanted protect everyone else.

2 different size shoe prints means 2 people at least were there.

I'd say Chris Sr's house suggests at least 2. It doesn't have to be 2 shooters, but they knew there were 2 victims and both larger guys. Jake is not a large guy, he is the smallest of all the men involved in this story. Frankie, Chris Sr, Chris Jr, Gary, Kenneth.. all larger guys. So for nobody else to be there, Jake a smaller guy would have shot Chris Sr from outside with a high power rifle, then also shot both men inside the house with another weapon, without either of them retreating to the bedroom where that safe full of guns was to get a weapon to protect themselves.

I'd say they had a good idea there was likely a second shooter just from Chris Sr house.

Then seeing the video with the trucks 2 at a time coming and going several times. I think they didn't know for a fact, but it sure seemed likely based on the timing of the vehicles on camera and no other vehicles that time of night that those trucks might be traveling together. Jake confirmed that.

All I am saying is Jake likely told a basic version of the night trying to minimize everyone else and take credit for all the incriminating stuff (in his mind shooting everyone is incriminating, but going and not shooting might mean they were less culpable.. Ohio law says otherwise). Then, when they say, did you use 2 different guns at Chris Sr because we have these shots outside, then these inside.. Well at this point maybe he's thinking over that truth=dp off the table deal. Then he admits someone else shot, etc.
 
True. I believe most of what he said the previous two days, but today‘s testimony had some problems. MOO. Somehow I don’t believe Billy was even in FR/HG’s home. It was either Jake alone or Jake and George. Also, this quote about Billy: “He was frustrated with me because of what he had, per se, been made to do because of me, and asked if I regretted doing the homicides.” Made to do? On Monday Jake said the murders were Billy’s idea.

And no way in h$#@ do I believe this: “Jake also said his mother and brother tried to talk him out of the murders and that his mother lied to cover for him.“ Angela lying yes, but no one tried to talk anyone out of the murders! And if George had done so, he would have been first to take a plea. IMO
I think they were all 3 inside if for no other reason than to not be spotted outside if someone drove by. At this point they had been to Chris Sr and killed him and Gary. Then checked Frankie's, it was locked. Then they went by Dana's she wasn't home so last they knew Dana wasn't home yet. Then went to Kenneth's and all was quiet so they went back to Chris Sr and walked to Frankie's. The drive from Kenneth's to Chris Sr's doesn't take them past Dana's house so they don't know at this point that Dana is or isn't home yet. So I don't think Billy and George would be left standing outside just in case anyone drove by, like Dana on her way home or if Dana were to drive up and stop at Chris's after work, she would know something was up.

I actually do see how Jake would feel his dad was frustrated. The murders might have been Billy's idea to quiet Angela and "do something".. maybe in Billy's mind the entire problem was Jake's fault because it was his daughter and her mother is the one that wouldn't comply. So this leads to Angela nagging him about finding a solution. He just wants to run off and be with Angela (per his texts to her in the months leading up to the murders).. so it was his idea, but it's Billy solution to Jake's problem that he (Billy) is now forced to solve. I think he did resent his sons.. we see how he feels in those texts to Angela. So I'm sure Billy did tell Jake they had to hide from BCI because of him. Billy blames everyone else for his problems.
 
That is my take also. And P&N are going to file a motion based on that order for a mistrial. No Doubt. And get the trial moved out of Deerings court for the next one.

JMO

The judge did have a hearing per the appeals court decision first thing this morning. It was the first part of the news coverage and everyone could see and hear it.

The word then came out that the appeals court reversed their decision. They didn't say why, but probably because it wasn't well thought out as to how to implement it on the fly, in the middle of a high profile case.
 
Can we talk about all the missing time the night of the 21st into the 22nd. What do you think they were doing?

We know for sure Chris Sr and Gary were killed around 11pm. Those phone calls Jake said were Chris Sr calling Billy's phone so Billy could "find it"/ Chris would be in a position that Jake had a shot.

So Jake gets the key goes to the grow building, gets the cameras, comes back and bodies are moved by then, they leave out of Chris Sr and Jake (not sure if the others went also) decide to get go over to Frankies and it's locked up so they go back to Chris Sr. and get into Chris Sr truck and drive by Danas.

So murders about 11, how much time does the rest of that take?

We know Dana wasn't home at 1130 or so because she was somewhere.. was it talking to a co worker?? So when they drove by her house she wasn't home, then they decide to drive by Kenneth's.

So let's say they are done at Chris Sr's and then walking to Frankie's and back to Chris Sr by 1145 and drive to Danas is just a mile or less.. then back toward Kenneth's.

I need to go back to the video's they showed the times there were various vehicles passing by.

Going to Kenneth's and back maybe 30-40 minutes max? So let's say they are back by 12:30 from driving by Kenneth's. Then they pull into Chris Srs and walk back to Frankie's and they kill him and HHG. Let's say 30 minutes to park, walk over, get in and kill them, then walk back. 1pm now and they are going to drive to Dana's just less than a mile away and walk right in and kill all 3 of them. Let's say 130 now they are heading to Kenneth's and kill him. Even allowing an hour for that it's 230.

I think I allowed a lot of time in there also that I just don't know if it was even needed. What were they doing? Looking for things to steal. I sorta feel like they might have spent some time at Chris Sr trying to find the key for the safe or to steal things. It seems like they killed Chris and Gary quick and then they had so much time before the rest of the killings.

I will go back to the video times again because I recall thinking there was around an hour and a half it seemed from that 11 killing at the first house and the truck on video going to and from Kenneths. Made me wonder if the motive was also looking for Billy's money.
I might be wrong -- but there was a reference to 4:30 am. I am sure whether that was when the wagners got home or when they finished
 
I think they were all 3 inside if for no other reason than to not be spotted outside if someone drove by. At this point they had been to Chris Sr and killed him and Gary. Then checked Frankie's, it was locked. Then they went by Dana's she wasn't home so last they knew Dana wasn't home yet. Then went to Kenneth's and all was quiet so they went back to Chris Sr and walked to Frankie's. The drive from Kenneth's to Chris Sr's doesn't take them past Dana's house so they don't know at this point that Dana is or isn't home yet. So I don't think Billy and George would be left standing outside just in case anyone drove by, like Dana on her way home or if Dana were to drive up and stop at Chris's after work, she would know something was up.

I actually do see how Jake would feel his dad was frustrated. The murders might have been Billy's idea to quiet Angela and "do something".. maybe in Billy's mind the entire problem was Jake's fault because it was his daughter and her mother is the one that wouldn't comply. So this leads to Angela nagging him about finding a solution. He just wants to run off and be with Angela (per his texts to her in the months leading up to the murders).. so it was his idea, but it's Billy solution to Jake's problem that he (Billy) is now forced to solve. I think he did resent his sons.. we see how he feels in those texts to Angela. So I'm sure Billy did tell Jake they had to hide from BCI because of him. Billy blames everyone else for his problems.
"Jake's always getting us into trouble over a girl." -GWIV
 
That is my take also. And P&N are going to file a motion based on that order for a mistrial. No Doubt. And get the trial moved out of Deerings court for the next one.

JMO
There has been nothing that would lead to a mistrial so far. And certainly nothing that justify a recusal of the trial judge.
 

He also shared the regret he felt about the murders of eight members of the Rhoden family during a brief conversation with his father, co-defendant Billy Wagner. Jake said he told Billy he "did not" feel regret, which Jake said on Wednesday was not true. He said he told this to his father because he was worried about his father potentially being suicidal.

Jurors saw Wednesday, for the first time, the weapons used when Jake says he and his family executed a plan to kill the members of the Rhoden family in April of 2016.

This content is imported from Twitter. You may be able to find the same content in another format, or you may be able to find more information, at their web site.
Jake Wagner testified this morning that he put items like these into buckets filled w/ concrete a month or two after the #PikeCountyMassacre. #WLWT pic.twitter.com/8dm1z5fqhm
— Todd Dykes (@ToddDykesWLWT) October 26, 2022
Jake described being taught before the killings how to evade law enforcement once they committed them. He said he was taught to be "respectful" of police but that if he "was to hide something, to hide it in plain sight."
 
Todd is only one posting right now. This is what I got so far. Still checking.

https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT

Court is adjourned for the day in #GeorgeWagnerIV's murder trial. Now it's deadline time from my end.. Wagner's attorney John Parker began cross-examining Jake Wagner at at approx. 2:35. 1/2

2/2 Prosecutors objected when Parker told Jake he got "the greatest plea bargain" in Ohio history. He was able to make the point to Jake that: "You're not facing the death penalty, but your brother is. And he (George) didn't fire a shot." Jake agreed.
But if GWIV is so innocent, why didn’t he speak up?
 
Todd is only one posting right now. This is what I got so far. Still checking.

https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT

Court is adjourned for the day in #GeorgeWagnerIV's murder trial. Now it's deadline time from my end.. Wagner's attorney John Parker began cross-examining Jake Wagner at at approx. 2:35. 1/2

2/2 Prosecutors objected when Parker told Jake he got "the greatest plea bargain" in Ohio history. He was able to make the point to Jake that: "You're not facing the death penalty, but your brother is. And he (George) didn't fire a shot." Jake agreed.
But if GWIV is so innocent, why didn’t he speak up?
 
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