OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

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Latin meaning "false in one thing, false in everything." Some courts use it, some do not. I know the case where I was on the jury (Florida) we were instructed that if we found that a witness lied, we were to discount their entire testimony. I remember, as it was right after the trial that I sat on, in the OJ Simpson trial the judge gave the same instructions. The Judge applied the doctrine to instruct the jury that "[a] witness who is willfully false in one material part of his or her testimony is to be distrusted in others."
I know what it means.

You said: “almost every witness I have seen (which is not many) other than the BCI witnesses and LE, have credibility issues to the point that I feel their testimony is unreliable and should be discounted”.

How many witnesses have you seen?
 
Hope the jury will think back to TC (Tabby) testimony as I believe it was insightful into how self-motivated Wags household is. "Very strange and controlling." Family meetings: only Billy, AW, GW4 & JW were present in the discussion. Fake Facebook account. Didn’t approve of TC spending time away with other family members or friends.

TC asked GW to move out of W house with her and find their own place (including their son) and GW4 refused. GW4 had absolutely no interest in leaving his home with parents or JW.

Arguments ensued with the assistance of AW, who was always in the mist of sons’ personal lives with their wife and girlfriends.

After all the legal issues, TC had no means to represent herself … this is typical for a single young woman, unfortunately. She agreed to sign a custody agreement for their son to live with GW4, and her visitations were to be supervised (both parties to agreed on place/time).

Thankful TC gained custody of her son and is probably thanking her lucky stars that she got out of that horror show alive!

Sounds all too familiar...

This narrative is in my opinion only and MOO.
 
So, with supervised visits that means you don't have custody. Therefore, AW is lying when she said it wasn't about custody.
Hard pill to swallow but I honestly don’t believe SHE thinks she’s lying. With this one statement Angela is refusing to take responsibility right there in front of God and everybody. She has confessed to the crime but she refuses to accept responsibility for it.

IMO Angela Wagner is 100% convinced to this day it was all Hanna May’s fault (for not doing what Angela wanted). It’s Hanna’s fault The Rhodens are dead, that Hannah Hazel is dead and it’s Hanna’s fault Angela is in jail, separated from her boys and grandchildren. She has mentioned how scared she has been for HER family. She is remorseful and regretful for what this has done to HER family. She is not sorry Hanna & her family are dead. In her eyes, it’s all Hanna’s fault. JMO
 
moo

Maybe they didn't like getting involved with doctors and others that might ask the wrong questions. That can make a false narrative fall completely apart.

moo
That could be true, but I'd guess the Rs weren't much different. I'd guess many in the area aren't much different. I think it's born out of this region, the Appalachian Region, that is, due to the harsh living conditions that many have endured over the years. There are not always a lot of doctor's offices, or specialists, long travel to decent health care, not a lot of leo assistance that can get to you in time, and if you are doing anything illegal (even growing weed), you don't want CPS or LEOs coming round.

That lovely skunky smell would be hard to miss at CR1s and give them reason to want to ask more questions and look around. Neither family would want CPS nor LEOs running around their property. I do think that CR1 thought, or was tipped off, that the W4 might be thinking of a call to CPS, or a call had possibly been made, during that few weeks prior to the murders, and hence, the new trailer, away from the grow and everyone in a more suitable bedroom (per the govt.). Oh if it was the W4, how that must have chaffed they're rears.

Lovely little lot, freshly cleaned new home, complete with a crib in HMR's room, a bedroom for CR2, DR, and, guessing, probably a toddler bed for S in HMR's room. Idk if the call is rumor or truth, b/c it is possible that it could have brought eyes on the W4 too.
 
I have no sympathy for GWIV, but it must hurt terribly, to know your own mother, the one you spent your life trying to please, is willing to condemn you to death in order to help herself. In a sense knowing your mom could do that when she is just as guilty, and her reasoning is for a few years of freedom has to cut deeply. She's your mom and I feel part of why he did it was to please her; if only subconsciously, and to know realize how little he meant to her...
Well said. I was thinking a lot about this last night. AW is as cold blooded as you can get, IMO.
 
Good morning all! Just jumping in with a thought .... when the W's were detained at the border JW claimed, while they were being interrogated, the family had suspected BCI/Border Agents drugged the kids by giving them a "purple sleepy drink" ... and even had them later "checked out" at a hospital (where nothing was found). Was it ever confirmed if they did in fact have the kids looked at by doctors, somewhere?? One could say they had no hesitation with medical assistance here ... but not in the suspicions of ongoing sexual abuse by family?? And if the fear of coming under suspicion of the abuse themselves was real ... were they not taking a risk of something being discovered while being examined at a hospital?? Not that this really means anything ... have always wondered though if the kids where examined.

Thanks to everyone here for your great conversations ...
 
So, with supervised visits that means you don't have custody. Therefore, AW is lying when she said it wasn't about custody.
No, you can have joint custody, and all the same benefits of spending Christmas and vacations, with the non-primary parent, it just means, at least here, that another adult must be in attendance with you when you have the child. Such as the child's grandparent. We went through this but for a different reason, we did not dislike the child's father. He just needed more maturity before having unsupervised visits. The court agreed.
 
Hard pill to swallow but I honestly don’t believe SHE thinks she’s lying. With this one statement Angela is refusing to take responsibility right there in front of God and everybody. She has confessed to the crime but she refuses to accept responsibility for it.

IMO Angela Wagner is 100% convinced to this day it was all Hanna May’s fault (for not doing what Angela wanted). It’s Hanna’s fault The Rhodens are dead, that Hannah Hazel is dead and it’s Hanna’s fault Angela is in jail, separated from her boys and grandchildren. She has mentioned how scared she has been for HER family. She is remorseful and regretful for what this has done to HER family. She is not sorry Hanna & her family are dead. In her eyes, it’s all Hanna’s fault. JMO
Agree. But how does AW equate "supervised visits" without realizing HR wouldn't have "custody." Those 2 go hand in hand. AW said if HR had only agreed to supervised visits. HOW does she equate one without the other. She, and that entire family are just messed up. Likely, as I've said prior, this behaviour from both families are generational.
 
https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

Good morning from Pike Co. End of Week 8 for the Pike Co. massacre trial for George Wagner IV. First up is evidentiary hearing with no jury at 9 a.m. Going over what can be used in wiretaps. Then BCI's Ryan Scheiderer and Julia Eveslage on the stand - both on camera

Gathering James' tweets at this time and getting kicked off WS.
 
While waiting to decide if they'll play any recordings today, the judge asked if there was any other evidence they wanted to present today. AC talked about BCI reconstructing the false bottom in the pickup bed and how they wanted to present that. AC said the reconstruction is to show that GW4 could fit under the false floor.

I missed the start, there's some reason Rob Junk isn't in court today.
 
No, you can have joint custody, and all the same benefits of spending Christmas and vacations, with the non-primary parent, it just means, at least here, that another adult must be in attendance with you when you have the child. Such as the child's grandparent. We went through this but for a different reason, we did not dislike the child's father. He just needed more maturity before having unsupervised visits. The court agreed.
Agree. That’s how normal people do it.

In their eyes, though…in Tabbitha’s case, THEY (George) had to be the one who supervised, if I understood her testimony correctly. The supervised visits were not in compliance to court order as Tabbitha found out later when she retained a lawyer. It was according to the way George & Angela wanted it. Tabbitha couldn’t take her baby off Wagner property the first year. And she couldn’t bring anyone with her.

I think. I may have misinterpreted. But that’s how I saw Wagners version of supervised visits. MOO
 
https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

Good morning from Pike Co. End of Week 8 for the Pike Co. massacre trial for George Wagner IV. First up is evidentiary hearing with no jury at 9 a.m. Going over what can be used in wiretaps. Then BCI's Ryan Scheiderer and Julia Eveslage on the stand - both on camera

Rob Junk the Pike Co prosecutor is apparently sick. He wants prosecutor to proceed without him. Judge willing to grant postpone the hearing if they wanted. But prosecutors are willing to go forward. Wilson - OK with moving forward

Wilson says only concern is appearance to jury of not having county prosecutor at the table. Asks for instruction to jury. Defense says it doesn't matter to them. They have 21-24 transcripts of wiretaps to go through.

Prosecutor says defense has transcripts, this is about which ones are actually going to be introduced.

Parker says they had no way of knowing which ones they were going to use. Prosecutor Wilson agrees but that they didn't want to lock themselves in

They need to go through all the transcripts and clips of recordings maybe do that today with no jury. Wilson also says the defense will get the case Monday or Tuesday.

Wilson: law says we can use listening aids when quality is poor. They also need to argue evidence regarding the truck.

- BCI built false bed to copy what Jake testified to. They want to clarify that.

They also used undercover agents with masks on to recreate what it looked like ... but they did it again without masks on to take pictures of recreated false bed.

Defense lawyer Parker - problem Jake never identified it during his testimony. Never gave defense picture during testimony as well.

Parker: also says the truck was changed after Katy Wagner got it. That's a problem. Also says the hay supposedly on top wasn't included in the demonstration/recreation

Judge asks why prosecution didn't ask Jake about "contraption" they built to recreate. Canepa - not intentional thing to omit.

Original pictures showed shooting positions under the truck, but prosecution "forgot" to do that the second time. Wilson - only reason to do that is to rebut defense argument that there wasn't enough space for George and Jake

Canepa says defense had as much access to truck as prosecution. But defense says there were delayed delayed delayed. Wilson also says argument George wasn't there only came up at beginning of trial.

Defense denies that - saying George denied it in Montana. But prosecution says so did Jake and Angela at the Montana border.

Prosecutor: defense arguing George too big to get into compartment, so they have to rebut that. Took photos on Thursday when Jake was on stand. Got very testy between Canepa and Parker.

Judge Deering says if he allows truck pictures, jury needs to be instructed to provide weight as they see fit. On the transcripts and snippets - they have the weekend to review. He is going to allow truck pictures as long as foundation laid with jury instruction

Wilson argues precedent allows transcripts - and that they were conservative with U/I for unintelligble for parts. Also need to resolve issues with defense on whether there is disagreement on what was said. And that a jury instruction would be needed.

So today is cancelled for trial - and jury will be sent home. Final decision on the transcripts and wiretap snippets will be played will be made Monday.

Defense will be calling their witnesses starting Monday - out of order but the jury will be made aware of that.

Any explanations of the transcripts will be removed for the jury as well.
 
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While waiting to decide if they'll play any recordings today, the judge asked if there was any other evidence they wanted to present today. AC talked about BCI reconstructing the false bottom in the pickup bed and how they wanted to present that. AC said the reconstruction is to show that GW4 could fit under the false floor.

I missed the start, there's some reason Rob Junk isn't in court today.
Junk called in sick.
 
Is anyone else experiencing low volume today?

No, it's normal here, on the L&C Youtube feed.

Since I stream from my phone to the tv, there's an additional volume control on the phone.

Edit: Court may dismiss before getting started today. Per Judge Deering right now, depending on what they all decide to do without Rob Junk being there.
 
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