OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

[rsd1200]

They shouldn't have been using her full name from the start. A minor child in this situation should be protected. Even Gov. DeWine issued orders just after the massacre that no information about the location of the surviving children should be made public.

Also, by waiting to announce they were making SW's identity private until after AW made her (likely false) accusations of sexual abuse, they were reinforcing the idea that AW was telling the truth.

Even on here, we have all tried to use initials. We know it's likely the victims family will stumble across these one day, but at least we can be discreet. I'd think that open press would hold themselves to a higher standard when it came to juveniles names in any court proceeding. I'm surprised they've even been using the children's names til now. I can see an exception only where a child is being tried as an adult.

 

[Pru2U]

Does Ohio law follow the doctrine of Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus? If so, almost every witness I have seen (which is not many) other than the BCI witnesses and LE, have credibility issues to the point that I feel their testimony is unreliable and should be discounted.

@iridized Please explain.

 

[rsd1200]

Does Ohio law follow the doctrine of Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus? If so, almost every witness I have seen (which is not many) other than the BCI witnesses and LE, have credibility issues to the point that I feel their testimony is unreliable and should be discounted.

I don't know about Ohio but I think it normally would only apply if a witness willfully lied on some material points. The Prosecution's show dogs, AW and JW, only had to testify to the satisfaction of the prosecution.

​

 

[iridized]

@iridized Please explain.

Latin meaning "false in one thing, false in everything." Some courts use it, some do not. I know the case where I was on the jury (Florida) we were instructed that if we found that a witness lied, we were to discount their entire testimony. I remember, as it was right after the trial that I sat on, in the OJ Simpson trial the judge gave the same instructions. The Judge applied the doctrine to instruct the jury that "[a] witness who is willfully false in one material part of his or her testimony is to be distrusted in others."

 

[rsd1200]

Once his grandmother admitted to lying for Angela and that the custody docs were forged, he knew there was no doubt he'd be found guilty. I also think if he didn't take a plea, this would have all been pinned on him. Think of how easy that would have been. No weapons, but they had the photo of Jake holding a gun, they had the shell casings at the house and the forged custody docs for Sophia. The motive would have been painted as only Jake wanted them dead and went alone and did it. I think his lawyers either talked sense into him once he confessed. I think someone else would have and it would have been all Jake's doing.

This is why it's so crappy we didn't get to see the testimony. Tone is important, questions are important.. how answers came out too. We can get a lot of detail from picking up the non verbal and if someone just says the answer or if they have to be lead to it. I think they likely saw right through Angela's BS because Jake before her said he didn't think anything had happened yet so why wait till it does. Angela then makes it seem like things were happening. She had to say this to get Billy to act. I think that was it and the only reason the allegations were even mentioned. She used that to get Billy to come up with a plan. So her reason was BS, but the jury needed to hear it because they likely are thinking HOW did they just decide to go murder 8 people. When they hear Angela say she kept telling Billy this and that and then Billy gets a plan.

Jake broke the Family Table Rules. Jake is the traitor, but Mommy Dearest was not going to let him go down alone. I think that part about G4 going to take the blame for it all is just b.s. too. She might have made herself believe it or hoped he'd go down for it b/c of the footprint, but she wasn't going to let JW go down alone.

 

[abeaman02]

I have no sympathy for GWIV, but it must hurt terribly, to know your own mother, the one you spent your life trying to please, is willing to condemn you to death in order to help herself. In a sense knowing your mom could do that when she is just as guilty, and her reasoning is for a few years of freedom has to cut deeply. She's your mom and I feel part of why he did it was to please her; if only subconsciously, and to know realize how little he meant to her...

 

[rsd1200]

And according to JW, he was worried that BW might commit suicide after the murders. And then AW said he started drinking a lot after the murders. Sounds like he maybe the only one with a conscience. Not that it was enough to stop this from happening. But he apparently was bothered after in a way the W3 weren't.

He did seem to have an affinity for animals too. That usually speaks to some sort of conscience. Idk if he set fire to the kennel or not. AW might have. They could have not even had pups in there... Just said they did. Miss Arson Queen knew how to do it.

 

[pepper 34]

She was trying to make GW4 look like a hero that killed the bad Rhoden, think about it, all that Jake and Angela was doing during testimony was tearing down the Rhoden repatriation, even Jake kept calling them Rhotens during his testimony and Angela called them child molesters JMO

....And this attitude that AW and JW display repeatedly (we're good people / anti-sexual-abuse people and JW even believes in Jesus but the Rhoden's were bad sexual abuse monsters and grew weed on their property and we were forced to kill them to save our child!) ...only proves (to me) that, no matter what nonsense they spew about being sorry and feeling remorse, it is just one more example of how they really are NOT sorry or remorseful at all. Just more lies which come easy for them.
If she truly suspected sexual abuse but couldn't prove it and still, she wanted custody of that child and a day cames where she could see physical proof of this abuse as AW claims she did, then I believe she would have taken the child to a doctor and obtained the word of a trained authority that abuse had taken place. Never mind "we don't trust police or doctors or child protective services," etc... She would have finally had a trained doctor to back her up and formalize a complaint. What more could a person in her position want... a doctor to back her up... proof for a courtroom. That way, the W's could have gone to court and most likely would have received full custody of "S" and would have had their way. Instead, she thinks that just because SHE says there was physical abuse, it justified killing everyone in those 4 homes that night whether they were involved in the mess the W's had made of it all or not. HR was sharing custody and that wasn't good enough for them because they wanted EVERYTHING they wanted and HR was in the way. So 8 people are gone forever.
No, I don't see the jury falling for that. I think the people who live in that area have a lot of "people smarts." I think they can see a con job from a mile away. I think AW hung herself today and I couldn't be happier.
(This comment is all my opinion.)

 

[pepper 34]

Even on here, we have all tried to use initials. We know it's likely the victims family will stumble across these one day, but at least we can be discreet. I'd think that open press would hold themselves to a higher standard when it came to juveniles names in any court proceeding. I'm surprised they've even been using the children's names til now. I can see an exception only where a child is being tried as an adult.

Especially when the major news outlets don't even print the names of minors who have been arrested for committing crimes. "S" is a minor and a victim... she lost her mother and her family.
Which reminds me of something else that ticked me off today. AW writing to her mother-in-law from the jail and having the audacity to write, "I feel so lost. I lost my family."
REALLY? Is she brain dead? She can print those words and forget why she is where she is? The irony slips right by her while she thinks only of herself and overlooks "her S" and all the surviving R's who must have felt so lost because they lost their family for no reason that will ever make sense. AW is just an incredible kind of evil living in her own world, imo.

 

[rsd1200]

Especially when the major news outlets don't even print the names of minors who have been arrested for committing crimes. "S" is a minor and a victim... she lost her mother and her family.
Which reminds me of something else that ticked me off today. AW writing to her mother-in-law from the jail and having the audacity to write, "I feel so lost. I lost my family."
REALLY? Is she brain dead? She can print those words and forget why she is where she is? The irony slips right by her while she thinks only of herself and overlooks "her S" and all the surviving R's who must have felt so lost because they lost their family for no reason that will ever make sense. AW is just an incredible kind of evil living in her own world, imo.

Well said. I realize her testimony was valuable but I hope to high Heaven that the judge can somehow arrange the way her charges are served, for extended time. I know it's probably a pipe dream but she should never be out of prison. I know, I'm a broken record on that but geeze.

 

[Stephtanmark]

I've been thinking and going down a rabbit hole, I figured I'd just throw it out there and it's just all my thoughts/opinion, not fact.

I keep thinking about Jake saying after he shot everywhere, he heard Billy shoot twice. That is such a discrepancy to the 9 times we know Chris Sr was shot.

I feel like from his testimony he is minimizing George's role and attempting to take all blame (maybe because he feels guilty it was his decision, he didn't want to back out and George said it wasn't a good idea). He doesn't say George isn't there, but he sorta glosses over where George was or what he was doing.

We know Frankie's house was close. If you were shooting 2 people at 11pm when many people are still awake, wouldn't you want a lookout for Frankie's house? Remember Jake said AFTER Chris and Gary were shot he went over to Frankie's, but the doors were locked. What if he went BEFORE Chris and Gary were shot. What if he walked over there and that is why he doesn't know where the shots came from that hit Chris Sr arm and the door. He doesn't know because he didn't shoot him, George did. He doesn't know how many shots Billy fired after that because he was over at Frankie's house either checking doors or actually killing them then.

There seems to be a large gap in time from then to when we see those trucks going away from Union hill road and then back to it.. then away again and back. I think they were at Chris Sr trying to get into his safe. They covered the bodies because they didn't want to look at them while they were searching for what they wanted.

Just some random things I was pondering over today.

I definitely agree! I think they were trying to get in safe, look for money or drugs. Chris Sr. had money and they wanted it.

 

[ColMustard]

....And this attitude that AW and JW display repeatedly (we're good people / anti-sexual-abuse people and JW even believes in Jesus but the Rhoden's were bad sexual abuse monsters and grew weed on their property and we were forced to kill them to save our child!) ...only proves (to me) that, no matter what nonsense they spew about being sorry and feeling remorse, it is just one more example of how they really are NOT sorry or remorseful at all. Just more lies which come easy for them.
If she truly suspected sexual abuse but couldn't prove it and still, she wanted custody of that child and a day cames where she could see physical proof of this abuse as AW claims she did, then I believe she would have taken the child to a doctor and obtained the word of a trained authority that abuse had taken place. Never mind "we don't trust police or doctors or child protective services," etc... She would have finally had a trained doctor to back her up and formalize a complaint. What more could a person in her position want... a doctor to back her up... proof for a courtroom. That way, the W's could have gone to court and most likely would have received full custody of "S" and would have had their way. Instead, she thinks that just because SHE says there was physical abuse, it justified killing everyone in those 4 homes that night whether they were involved in the mess the W's had made of it all or not. HR was sharing custody and that wasn't good enough for them because they wanted EVERYTHING they wanted and HR was in the way. So 8 people are gone forever.
No, I don't see the jury falling for that. I think the people who live in that area have a lot of "people smarts." I think they can see a con job from a mile away. I think AW hung herself today and I couldn't be happier.
(This comment is all my opinion.)

moo

Maybe they didn't like getting involved with doctors and others that might ask the wrong questions. That can make a false narrative fall completely apart.

moo

 

[Puzzles8]

Oh yes because I think this will be most damning for George. I don't know why they are having a hearing now.. maybe it has to do with what is played or how they are played, how much of it, which ones, etc? I think it was all done legally or they would have been excluded already before this point, but I am sure they want to discuss how they will be played just like the BCI interviews and the phone calls and remember all the back and forth on that the defense wanted to play all and prosecution just had parts, etc. Then they ended up playing them for the judge only and then he made a ruling. Maybe something similar is going to happen here.

I agree, it's been thought the 'truck recordings' will be the most damning evidence to G4's case. It makes sense the Prosecution would save the best for the last weeks or days. Send the Jury off to deliberate with George's voice fresh in their ears as the tapes reveal his active planning, participation and cover up in the murders.

The long but necessary tedious testimony was covered at the beginning of the trial, ballistics, detailed autopsy reports, chain of evidence, responding officers etc.

We still have not seen how the two properties shown during the Juror View fit in. I suspect those homes had security cameras and caught both CRsr's truck and the murder truck moving in between scenes.

I'm expecting the next week or so to be very interesting....
Hopefully no more opt outs. Today I finally was able to watch and and listen, the most exciting thing I got to see was a test pattern and the epic chandelier.

That said, the Pike County Court Room is a truly beautiful representation of history, the Mural, the Chandelier and the Barrister Bookcases. I can ignore the ugly red carpet.

JMO

 

[Niner]

Friday, November 4th:
*Evidentiary Hearing (@ 9am ET) & *Trial continues (Day 37) (@ 10am ET for jury) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (37). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) & a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – for *George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 31) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, & 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table only for Jake if his testimony is truthful. But George still faces the DP as he did not take a deal.
Trial began on 8/29/22 with final jury selection & the jury was seated on 8/30/22. 12 Jurors & 6 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 6 alternates: (5 women & 1 man). 9/30/22: Ill juror replaced with alternate. 12 jurors & 5 alternates. Jury: (9 women & 3 men) & 5 alternates (4 women & 1 man).
Trial began with opening statements on Monday, 9/12/22. (Trial is scheduled for 8 to 9 weeks (56-63 days).
Added note: Regarding shoe sizes: Jake wore the size 10.5 & George the 11.
Crime info & court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 9/6/22 & Trial Day 1-35 (9/12 to 11/2/22) no court on 10/27/22 reference post #710 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-36
11/3/22: More testimony for Jake: Info see post #720 on page 36 & #727 on page 37.
11/3/22 Thursday, Trial Day 36: State witness: Angela Wagner, George’s mother continues on cross/re-direct/re-cross. Has opted out of video/audio.
For more info see posts #753 & 756 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-38
For more info see posts #765, 767 & 770 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-39
For more info see posts #783 & 789 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-40
For more info see posts #813, 834, 836 & 837 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-42
For more info see posts #862 (article) & 866 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-44
For more info see post #893 (article) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-45
State witness: Katy Wagner, Billy's niece, George’s cousin. Opted out of recording.
For more info see post #837 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-42
For more info see post #858 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-81.641769/page-43
Court starts late Friday, 11/4/22 as there's an evidentiary hearing thought to involve the wiretaps of George & Jake as they drove a semi cross country after the murders. That's at 9am & the jury is supposed to report at 10am.

 

[gizmobtj]

CR's father's issue was mentioned a couple of times but I don't remember how it came up. Also, Jake mentioned HR being raped in a text between two of them that was read aloud by J Eversledge( I think it was her). Those 2 things did come out. Also Tabi's stepfather. There's been plenty of talk about it for sure.

I think because I'm so close to it, it didn't dawn on me the jury would seriously consider AW was telling the truth about little S. That was a good wake-up call.

Of course they will. They have heard about so much SA in this trial, sometimes from the victims, and they have seen how the SA told to Wagners by Elizabeth and Tabitha raised alarms and changed their actions. But, at the end of the day, even if you believe SA by one person and you might get jury nullification on one, ita doubtful the jury would give you the other seven

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Do you think it worked?

I prey not, she told on CN and FW and I hope more arrests are here to come! JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Of course they will. They have heard about so much SA in this trial, sometimes from the victims, and they have seen how the SA told to Wagners by Elizabeth and Tabitha raised alarms and changed their actions. But, at the end of the day, even if you believe SA by one person and you might get jury nullification on one, ita doubtful the jury would give you the other seven

I don't think that jury nullification could happen at this point. I don't see how anyone could believe that GW4 is guilty but give him a pass. If even one person "voted" to ignore he is guilty and stand alone, it would cause a hung jury/deadlocked jury, in a DP trial, I think. So I hope no one would do that.

JW even admitted nothing had happened, but why wait for something to happen? So they murder an entire family in their sleep, while they are at their most defenseless. It's not like JW caught a person harming S and lost his cool and killed a person(s). A crime of passion so to speak but this is not what happened. I hope there is no jurist(s) who will let a man off, that they are convinced is guilty.
If this did happen, in this case, I am not sure if the judge can still hand down the lesser of sentencing, himself, and go against the jury, or if it would be declared game over and GW4 walks, or a mistrial would be called.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Can you believe this woman? My head is going to explode!

The "look what you made me do" excuse.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Hanna would have had the same type of "supervised visits" as Tabitha got. Nothing.

So, with supervised visits that means you don't have custody. Therefore, AW is lying when she said it wasn't about custody.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Did the defense make any inroads on cross?

Just on what Ive read and heard on podcasts it doesnt look good for team IV.

I dont know if Parker can show more disdain for his client. He mostly blows 4 off when 4 tries to show him his ramblings and doodling. Jmo

I think since Parker's the DP lawyer he HAS to not be bothered. Possibly told him to defer to Nash.