OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

[rsd1200]

I don’t see her as a victim. I do see her as judgmental, psychologically and physically abusive to her kids and grandkids. I see her and Billy as grifters and criminals who made a living by stealing and scamming other people. Their pious views about religion don’t square with their own abuse of young girls they procured for their twisted sons.

If her assault happened as a young girl, age 18/19, over a thousand miles from home? Well, yes, she was a victim of the person who assaulted her. I've been assaulted. It happens to stay with you. Thankfully one of the most scaring, was by a drunk, and I got away. That was not the first time, and I was barely over 18. I never discount someone's view, who's been physically/sexually assaulted, of the world around them. That's just me though.

 

[ColMustard]

moo moo


How about that scamming! Jake says he once sold a pregnant chicken to a woman at the Fair.

moo moo

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/Angenette5
BBM

One thing I forgot to mention: Jake said he got the oil filter for the silencer/suppressor from stuff Billy stole. I think Parker's point was it wasn't the oil filter George bought before the murders.

Still thinking about the testimony yesterday where Jake Wagner smiled when asked whether he bragged about selling a pregnant chicken to a woman. It led to a lot of stuff about his memory and him saying he had problems with his memory. Pregnant chicken.

Big shout-out to the Beast and Bottle in Waverly. I had the most amazing kids cheeseburger for lunch yesterday. And a big thank you to Shane, my work pal, for getting it for me so I could try to tweet as many details as possible during the break

Parker when questioning Jake about prison: Have you ever been told that you have a start mouth? Since you've been incarcerated? Jake has been told this.

Parker: Do you have plans to meet your daughter? State objects. Parker: Do you think you'll be able to pick up the guitar again? State objects.

Parker asks Jake about a photo from Facebook. It's a 1911 .22 holster with a Marvel character riding a pink unicorn? Jake commented "I want this.”

Parker questioned Jake about him becoming more religious since his arrest. Jake confirms he has become more religious since that time. He's read the Bible front-to-back nearly 23 times.

In response to a Q from Parker, Jake said he became religious at age 10. "I was raised Baptist." Jake said as a Baptist, he was a little terrified of going to hell. Jake also said in response to Q's that he and Angela both told George he was going to hell for smoking, etc.

Parker: In jail, have you ever been called "Pastor Hero?" State objected. Sustained. Parker: Have you ever written any books? State objects. Sustained.

On redirect, Canepa asked Jake whether or not the state believed him when he said he and GW4 dying their hair was related to the homicides. Jake insisted it was unrelated. Canepa asks whether they told him they didn't believe him. He said they didn't believe him.

Canepa also revealed through questioning of Jake that the state's theory was that George and Jake were the shooters. But Jake told them, no, that wasn't true. He has consistently said George shot no one.

Canepa also asked Jake whether they told him they believed his mother was more involved in the crime than he was saying. Jake confirmed that was true. <-- I found this very interesting. This and the stuff about them believing GW4 was more involved.

So, prosecutors clearly believed George and Angela were more involved when they charged them than Jake later revealed. Jake pretty much said he did much of the planning while George and Billy were on the road, it was Billy's idea, and Billy helped plan. Angela bought items.

Jake also said George and Angela tried to talk him out of this. Jake said he didn't want to kill Hanna and neither did Billy because they loved her.

Jake also admitted that the custody/guardianship documents signed 19 days before the murders that gave Angela custody of the children should Jake and George die, was his idea.

Jake said George went along that night to protect him, didn’t fire a shot but was supposed to, helped dig the hole to bury the guns and wore on pair of Wal-Mart shoes

 

[iulia]

Thank you so much @arielilane

 

[Seattle1]

I was using Amish as an example. I said Amish type upbringing. It was my opinion. Where did your version of JW testimony come from? That is nothing like the reporting I read of his testimony this morning..

He didn't Google anything.

Never heard EA joined a cult as a teen.

He was watching a video on her phone. Yeah right. He didn't have his phone?

@SuziQ-- Not rumor, not my version of JW testimony, not opinion, clearly MSM statements of fact:

@jamespilcher·
25s

Replying to
@jamespilcher
Jake also said on wedding night with Elizabeth Armer, he used her phone to watch anime and saw searches for "white witch spells" and other witchcraft on YouTube. Says it raised red flags

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

LUNCH BREAK IN OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV: John Patrick Parker began the cross-examination by being more friendly than Wednesday. Jake seems very comfortable answering Q's from Parker. He has a sort of country boy charm. Hard to explain

Parker said, "if you need a break, let me know." Jake responds smiling, "I gotcha." He starts by asking Jake about Billy teaching him to pick locks. Jake went into great detail about how Billy taught him how to do that at 10 or 11

Jake said Billy taught him, also learned by trial and error and Youtube. Jake said "I was very good." He also said he carried a pick in his wallet. Also, Billy taught him survival skills. How to evade police, enter a house

Billy was prepping for the end of the world. Billy bought a bread truck and buried it in the ground and stored food and water in it. "He was preparing for, what was that thing called in the year 2000? 2KO? Kind of the apocalypse thing in 2012?”

Jake said Billy also taught him survival skills like being observant, living off substances like mushrooms and roots. Billy also had a sea container to use as a bomb shelter. Food and water stored there.

Jake detailed life of crime that he and his family lived. They stole trucks, vehicles, chop shop type thing. Broke into vending machines. Jake said he never personally stole fuel. Billy did. They stole from tractor trailers, washing machines, furnitures, etc.

Jake said dad told him when he was 12, 13 that he stole so he didn't have to. He said Billy wanted him to hear it from him and not other sources. Once, Billy stole a tractor full of goods, drove it to Mexico and came back with a briefcase that had $100K in it.

Jake said Billy bought him a truck with some of the money. The family also buried money in mason jars. He said they stole trailers that had hot tubs, furniture, food. Jake liked video games. His 3 faves: Resident Evil, Halo, Call of Duty.

Jake was homeschooled. Angela took his tests in English, Social Studies and history b/c he said he told her "I told her I wasn't doing that crap. I was going to be a mechanic or a truck driver." He got math and science

But Angela wanted him to graduate so she took his tests for him. Jake said to an extent, video games had an influence on him. Billy didn't like going to the doctor. Didn't want them going to the doctor. Billy stitched Jake up using duct tape or electrical tape

One time, Jake's head was hit in the head trying to lasso a tire on a 4-wheeler. "I got a big old gash in my forehead." He walked into the house and took his hands away from it and blood started gushing out. Billy took him to the hospital and to the MD

"You break that stitch again, I'll break your neck." Another time, he was hit in the head with a steel pole. Walked into the house and they didn't take him to the MD. Hit in the temple. Angela called it heat stroke, Billy thought it was a concussion

But, no one took him to the doctor. For a week, he couldn't eat, walk very far and was constantly vomiting. Jake said he was very tight with his mother. Angela worked for a short time at Wal-Mart and Fredericka's "mentally retarded home.”

Then they went through the burning of the homes/structures on Bethel Hill Rd. Fredericka was going to sell the 600 acres so they wanted to be compensated for the house they had built after the first burned down.

Jake said they had built the home with stolen materials. So, it was worth about $200K. A regular person would consider it worth $400K. Jake, GW4 and Chris Rhoden Sr. set up a big crock pot on the stove, dropped a turkey in it and watched it overflow

Jake then sprayed the fire with a kitchen water hose to spread the fire and Chris Sr. watched so he could be a witness. "Dad fed me to the wolves" because Jake had to talk to the cops, firefighters.

Jake said he liked to go to church when he was in Alaska.Almost every Sunday. Met Beth Anne. He wanted a Christian woman to help raise Sophia. They got married. On their wedding night, he said he started to see she wasn't the woman Beth Anne portrayed she was

He said he asked to watch a show on her phone on their wedding night and when he started to type and "witchcraft" and "witch spells" and stuff like that came up.

Beth Anne told him "oh it's a search suggestion."

Jake didn't believe it. He said "that's serious stuff. Nobody wants to be married to a witch!"

Parker asked whether they consummated the marriage that night. Jake said yes. Parker asked if he forced himself on Beth Anne. Jake looked appalled and said "no."

This differs from Beth Anne's testimony. She told the jury Jake didn't honor her wishes to not consummate the marriage that night.

Then,in Missouri, they were all playing a 21 question game. Beth Anne said she was part of cults as a teen and she didn't tell him.

Jake said he and Sophia had a very special bond. He wanted her to grow up as a good Christian. "I wanted her to have a good man as a husband and have lots of babies. Grandbabies." Sophia wanted to be a baby doctor

With Hanna, it wasn't "love at first sight. She grew on me." They talked about having a baby together. Hanna knew people who were having babies. They agreed on how they would raise children. "The night Sophia was conceived, that was all her."

Jake said he and Hanna May didn't want their children in certain environments and didn't want them to be "dudtards." What's that? A dud is when you fire a gun and it doesn't work. "And tard is part of *advertiser censored*.”

Jake said "I love retarded people. I don't want to sound racist." Basically, he is saying he's not talking badly about people with disabilities. He said he and Hanna, even if their kids farmed, they wanted them to go to college.

Jake said after he and Hanna broke up (Hanna broke it off), "I don't want to talk bad about her. After she left me she gave up our parenting standards." He said Hanna felt like Sophia liked him better

Jake said when she started dating other men, "I guess you could say I was jealous." When asked. He said he was consumed and "overcome with fear" that Sophia would be molested.

 

[rsd1200]

So how did everybody hear it?? I want to hear it too, please, anybody?

It's about 10 minutes long, and he describes being inside DR's home that night, iirc. It's him, that voice... he's got a distinct voice. It's still up at the SciotoValleyGuardian.com site. I used a lightweight browser (Seamonkey) to view. Idk of it's still permitted to link to the vid or not. Hope this helps!

 

[rsd1200]

moo moo


How about that scamming! Jake says he once sold a pregnant chicken to a woman at the Fair.

moo moo

Well, if all she wanted were eggs, then she wasn't too bad off. Now if she wanted chicks, she might just be clueless.

 

[justtrish]

@Seattle1 I recall Beth testifying that he wanted her passwords on their wedding night. I believe it was said he linked their phones or something like that. I wonder if Jake's version of watching a video on her phone was really him snooping because as soon as they were married he felt entitled to look through her stuff, know all passwords, and have access to anything she did.

 

[rsd1200]

@arielilane Thank you so much for the summary! I did have one question if you should get time to answer, did they ask JW if he'd been told he had a "smart mouth" rather than a "start mouth"? Just curious. I'm not sure what the latter would mean. Thank you so much!

 

[rsd1200]

@Seattle1 I recall Beth testifying that he wanted her passwords on their wedding night. I believe it was said he linked their phones or something like that. I wonder if Jake's version of watching a video on her phone was really him snooping because as soon as they were married he felt entitled to look through her stuff, know all passwords, and have access to anything she did.

That's not usually the case on the wedding night. Quite odd. Usually done by controlling, insecure, and abusive, partners.

 

[Seattle1]

@Seattle1 I recall Beth testifying that he wanted her passwords on their wedding night. I believe it was said he linked their phones or something like that. I wonder if Jake's version of watching a video on her phone was really him snooping because as soon as they were married he felt entitled to look through her stuff, know all passwords, and have access to anything she did.

Yes! Even took her social security card. I think that was part of "joining the family" where she'd be the next unsuspecting victim with property in her name only because she had a clean insurance record. MOO

 

[geevee]

I missed a fair amount of the early witnesses (due to so many opting out of being recorded and gave up for a little while) but do we know what size of shoe Billie wore? And if it's been mentioned why AW only bought two pair of shoes for the murder spree when 3 men were going?

 

[SuziQ]

@SuziQ-- Not rumor, not my version of JW testimony, not opinion, clearly MSM statements of fact:

@jamespilcher·
25s

Replying to
@jamespilcher
Jake also said on wedding night with Elizabeth Armer, he used her phone to watch anime and saw searches for "white witch spells" and other witchcraft on YouTube. Says it raised red flags

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

LUNCH BREAK IN OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV: John Patrick Parker began the cross-examination by being more friendly than Wednesday. Jake seems very comfortable answering Q's from Parker. He has a sort of country boy charm. Hard to explain

Parker said, "if you need a break, let me know." Jake responds smiling, "I gotcha." He starts by asking Jake about Billy teaching him to pick locks. Jake went into great detail about how Billy taught him how to do that at 10 or 11

Jake said Billy taught him, also learned by trial and error and Youtube. Jake said "I was very good." He also said he carried a pick in his wallet. Also, Billy taught him survival skills. How to evade police, enter a house

Billy was prepping for the end of the world. Billy bought a bread truck and buried it in the ground and stored food and water in it. "He was preparing for, what was that thing called in the year 2000? 2KO? Kind of the apocalypse thing in 2012?”

Jake said Billy also taught him survival skills like being observant, living off substances like mushrooms and roots. Billy also had a sea container to use as a bomb shelter. Food and water stored there.

Jake detailed life of crime that he and his family lived. They stole trucks, vehicles, chop shop type thing. Broke into vending machines. Jake said he never personally stole fuel. Billy did. They stole from tractor trailers, washing machines, furnitures, etc.

Jake said dad told him when he was 12, 13 that he stole so he didn't have to. He said Billy wanted him to hear it from him and not other sources. Once, Billy stole a tractor full of goods, drove it to Mexico and came back with a briefcase that had $100K in it.

Jake said Billy bought him a truck with some of the money. The family also buried money in mason jars. He said they stole trailers that had hot tubs, furniture, food. Jake liked video games. His 3 faves: Resident Evil, Halo, Call of Duty.

Jake was homeschooled. Angela took his tests in English, Social Studies and history b/c he said he told her "I told her I wasn't doing that crap. I was going to be a mechanic or a truck driver." He got math and science

But Angela wanted him to graduate so she took his tests for him. Jake said to an extent, video games had an influence on him. Billy didn't like going to the doctor. Didn't want them going to the doctor. Billy stitched Jake up using duct tape or electrical tape

One time, Jake's head was hit in the head trying to lasso a tire on a 4-wheeler. "I got a big old gash in my forehead." He walked into the house and took his hands away from it and blood started gushing out. Billy took him to the hospital and to the MD

"You break that stitch again, I'll break your neck." Another time, he was hit in the head with a steel pole. Walked into the house and they didn't take him to the MD. Hit in the temple. Angela called it heat stroke, Billy thought it was a concussion

But, no one took him to the doctor. For a week, he couldn't eat, walk very far and was constantly vomiting. Jake said he was very tight with his mother. Angela worked for a short time at Wal-Mart and Fredericka's "mentally retarded home.”

Then they went through the burning of the homes/structures on Bethel Hill Rd. Fredericka was going to sell the 600 acres so they wanted to be compensated for the house they had built after the first burned down.

Jake said they had built the home with stolen materials. So, it was worth about $200K. A regular person would consider it worth $400K. Jake, GW4 and Chris Rhoden Sr. set up a big crock pot on the stove, dropped a turkey in it and watched it overflow

Jake then sprayed the fire with a kitchen water hose to spread the fire and Chris Sr. watched so he could be a witness. "Dad fed me to the wolves" because Jake had to talk to the cops, firefighters.

Jake said he liked to go to church when he was in Alaska.Almost every Sunday. Met Beth Anne. He wanted a Christian woman to help raise Sophia. They got married. On their wedding night, he said he started to see she wasn't the woman Beth Anne portrayed she was

He said he asked to watch a show on her phone on their wedding night and when he started to type and "witchcraft" and "witch spells" and stuff like that came up.

Beth Anne told him "oh it's a search suggestion."

Jake didn't believe it. He said "that's serious stuff. Nobody wants to be married to a witch!"

Parker asked whether they consummated the marriage that night. Jake said yes. Parker asked if he forced himself on Beth Anne. Jake looked appalled and said "no."

This differs from Beth Anne's testimony. She told the jury Jake didn't honor her wishes to not consummate the marriage that night.

Then,in Missouri, they were all playing a 21 question game. Beth Anne said she was part of cults as a teen and she didn't tell him.

Jake said he and Sophia had a very special bond. He wanted her to grow up as a good Christian. "I wanted her to have a good man as a husband and have lots of babies. Grandbabies." Sophia wanted to be a baby doctor

With Hanna, it wasn't "love at first sight. She grew on me." They talked about having a baby together. Hanna knew people who were having babies. They agreed on how they would raise children. "The night Sophia was conceived, that was all her."

Jake said he and Hanna May didn't want their children in certain environments and didn't want them to be "dudtards." What's that? A dud is when you fire a gun and it doesn't work. "And tard is part of *advertiser censored*.”

Jake said "I love retarded people. I don't want to sound racist." Basically, he is saying he's not talking badly about people with disabilities. He said he and Hanna, even if their kids farmed, they wanted them to go to college.

Jake said after he and Hanna broke up (Hanna broke it off), "I don't want to talk bad about her. After she left me she gave up our parenting standards." He said Hanna felt like Sophia liked him better

Jake said when she started dating other men, "I guess you could say I was jealous." When asked. He said he was consumed and "overcome with fear" that Sophia would be molested.

Boy was I off base. I assumed Jake was one big fat liar. Thank you for straightening me out.

 

[Dudly]

Would an Alford plea still be available for GWIV and GWIII? They would not be admitting guilt using that…

 

[Seattle1]

We know that JW will testify that Billy was instrumental in the planning of the murders. So defense attempts to say he wasn't at the scene (which there is plenty of evidence to show he was) is pointless. But maybe Billy still has nothing to lose. Maybe there is no real offer on the table for him to take other than life.

^^bbm
Wasn't that statement made by AC in her opening that both defendants (charged with 8 counts of murder) going to trial were each offered life as opposed to potential death penalties? IMO, I'd say that's a real offer!

 

[joe jones]

I missed a fair amount of the early witnesses (due to so many opting out of being recorded and gave up for a little while) but do we know what size of shoe Billie wore? And if it's been mentioned why AW only bought two pair of shoes for the murder spree when 3 men were going?

no mention of it yet that I have seen, or what size AW wore, I haven't heard yet what size shoes JW and GW were wearing that night, and if they were their usual sizes, but then it is hard trying to keep up with JW testimony as we are relying on tweets and how good a note taker the journalists/podcasters/bloggers etc are who are in court, so I could have missed shoe size testimony

 

[arielilane]

@arielilane Thank you so much for the summary! I did have one question if you should get time to answer, did they ask JW if he'd been told he had a "smart mouth" rather than a "start mouth"? Just curious. I'm not sure what the latter would mean. Thank you so much!

You're welcome.

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

Parker when questioning Jake about prison: Have you ever been told that you have a start mouth? Since you've been incarcerated? Jake has been told this.

CORRECTION: smart mouth - not start mouth. Typo

 

[geevee]

no mention of it yet that I have seen, or what size AW wore, I haven't heard yet what size shoes JW and GW were wearing that night, and if they were their usual sizes, but then it is hard trying to keep up with JW testimony as we are relying on tweets and how good a note taker the journalists/podcasters/bloggers etc are who are in court, so I could have missed shoe size testimony

Thanks Joe, I hope we get this info, it seems rather important.

 

[joe jones]

Would an Alford plea still be available for GWIV and GWIII? They would not be admitting guilt using that…

I highly doubt they would have ever been offered an Alford plea, once JW caved and agreed to testify the state probably thought they would find it easier to convict the other 3, then AW caved so they have no use of BW or GW pleading to anything, as they have nothing to offer

they can plead Guilty, and get same sentence as JW, but I don't understand why they would, I would have gone to trial and made state prove their case,

I do find it interesting that when they charged all 4 the states theory was GW and JW did all the killing, and it was only when JW confessed, and he insisted that GW did not shoot that night that the state accepted that, to me that shows that pre-JW confession (as I have posted all along) the state didn't know and couldn't prove who shot who, there theory was GW and JW, and they still cannot prove who shot who, it relies upon whether you think JW is telling the truth

I think this bodes well for BW, as I am sure his defense will argue that the state only changed their mind on who shot who when JW confessed, up to that point BW was not considered to have been a shooter, and from the tweets and media reporting IMO it was BW who was seen to have had less of culpability in states eyes pre-JW confession, MVHOO

JW told the state he and BW did the planning when they were off driving the trucks, AW bought the stuff for the silencers etc, and he moved GW from being a shooter/murderer to not, and he moved GW out of the planning,

the state told JW that they believe AW was more involved than he revealed in his confession, but they have accepted his proffer as it is, and it is up to the jury to decide what they believe

 

[Betty P]

^^bbm
Wasn't that statement made by AC in her opening that both defendants (charged with 8 counts of murder) going to trial were each offered life as opposed to potential death penalties? IMO, I'd say that's a real offer!

Yes, they were all offered LWOP as part of Jake's plea agreement. After Jake's confession in court, everyone sort of waited around to see which family members would take the offer of LWOP.

There was a waiting period because the others had to be told about Jake's confession and the offer to them for LWOP if they confess, too. Angela announced next with a separate plea deal. GW4 and Billy decided to refuse the offer and go to trial separately. At first, GW4's defense team tried to use the "have your cake and eat it, too" argument that the judge allow them to both go to trial and default to the LWOP deal if they were found guilty.

Judge said he couldn't do that, as the LWOP plea agreement was under the control of the state prosecution, not him.

Still, I suspect if they both decided to agree to those plea deals today, the state would still honor them. They're basically trying to avoid the ongoing pressure and trauma to the victim's family and spare the state the cost of more capital trials.