OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84

[Pru2U]

Anytime prosecution can get a defendant on the stand and prove they are lying about something, it shows the jury that they are capable of lying and are likely doing so re their innocence.

YES! Just as several here claimed Jake and Angela were lying. The road runs both ways.

Someone is lying. IMO they are all 3 liars, they're a whole famdamily of liars - HOWEVER! There is (circumstantial) evidence and witness testimony to back up Jake and Angela.

 

[Myland]

Jmo it could be defense didn’t press for interview to be played because they liked people questioning if there was one and it only made prosecutors look like they were hiding something. It was a defense without having to do anything.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Interesting. I found GW to be the most polished and prepared of all the witnesses except BCI agents and Beth, who seemed very natural & genuine in her responses. A very sincere kudos to the defense team. In my personal opinion their advance prep was the number one best and most important thing they have done or could do -- and it was time well spent. It very well may save him a life in prison. I believe it will.

I found both Jake and Angela's testimony to be believable but not exactly stellar. I mean, these are two horrible, HORRIBLE people & they were steadfast in their horribleness on the stand. I have a sneaking suspicion the prosecution either couldn't or didn't do much prepping with them. I'm not sure what the legalities are in turning state's witness but GW was a thousand times better prepared.

These are my own observations & opinions. I respect the observations & opinions of others and enjoy mulling them over from a different perspective.

I agree with everything you've laid down.

 

[Myland]

Jmo what kind of evidence could George present at trial to prove he was not there that night. If he was innocent what piece of physical evidence can a person provide in this situation. I have lived a while and I admit I have been duped by people in my lifetime. Not as serious as this situation, but I believed someone didn’t do something because they told me so. If George is innocent then he duped was big time. Jmo

 

[Pru2U]

I guess I'd like to hear testimony that they do have audio of GW4. But it's a moot point. If I was on the jury, I'd be wondering why it wasn't introduced. Canepa saying you said this you said that at Montana interview doesn't cut it for me. I'd dismiss that line of questioning.

I totally get where you're coming from, but I don't think any testimony exclusively claims there is audio for GW.

What we DO have is a federal law requiring audio and a BCI agent's testimony under oath that they did get audio.

This trial has become a fustercluck, allowing state to pause, defense to start, state to continue, defense witnesses... I don't know WHERE we are, which side has rested or if there's still opportunity for the audio to be played.

I know everyone is doing the best they can but jeezopete what a mess!

 

[pepper 34]

Regarding George’s “tell” how he looks down when answering questions and people are assuming he’s lying. He very well could be however my mom is like this. She had an abusive traumatic childhood. Because of it she has a hard time looking at people she doesn’t know well. She’ll look briefly, answer then look down. It’s a self esteem thing. She feels inferior to literally everyone. I can see that being George’s issue too. Maybe not. Maybe he is totally lying and pulling the wool over my eyes. lol but he just reminds me so much of my mom with that I just wanted to share it for thought.

I agree with you on this. In fact, GW is very consistent in the behavior you describe and is so, from the very beginning of his testimony. There are body language experts who would label the actions you describe as his "baseline... repetitive body language we see him engaged in under "normal circumstances." We know, by some of his simple answers to some of the questions he is asked that he is being honest (such as where he lived at the time of 'this or that' incident he was describing, for example) ... and so, we can be more confident that the behavior of answering and looking down is seen during answers we know to be an honest. I understand your mother's behavior and maybe even her feelings... I don't like what, for me, is excessive eye contact with people. I suspect I would also look at a lawyer and answer and then look down and wait for the next question. Looking into the questioner's eyes for the majority of the time they are in front of me would seem very unnatural and uncomfortable for me. Low self esteem, social anxiety, or other causes we are not aware of can result in many body language quirks or habits that come quite naturally to people who are not confident in themselves... we can spend an entire lifetime attempting to "heal" from abusive pasts but many survivors are not ever completely successful. (And so, that behavior, as you stated, could be simply "a tell" of a different sort... a tell of having been a victim.
All just my opinion.
eta: clarification of last sentence and "all just my opinion"

 

[Pru2U]

Jmo what kind of evidence could George present at trial to prove he was not there that night. If he was innocent what piece of physical evidence can a person provide in this situation. I have lived a while and I admit I have been duped by people in my lifetime. Not as serious as this situation, but I believed someone didn’t do something because they told me so. Jmo

A real alibi.

A movie ticket.
A store receipt.
A Redbox receipt.
A friend or two to alibi him.

I would believe a solid alibi. He doesn't have one. It's his word against his mother's but also GW's timelines of when Billy was at the Peterson Rd house & time GW went to bed do not align with Jake's timeline or more importantly with CR/GR time of death.

 

[Pru2U]

I'm so confused!

 

[ColMustard]

Yeah the I-gamble-so-much,-I'd-bet-if-it-was-gonna-rain-or-not part? He did do some stumbling and bumbling didn't he. I think every juror must have caught that one. JMO

Chip off the ole block.

Billy - "Lemme tellya what". "I'll tellya something". (preceding a lie)

George - "Do you want me to explain what that really means?" (make up a lie) "Do you want me to go into detail?" (lie to you)

moo .. Is being a confident liar all it takes?

 

[joe jones]

Have you ever been to a gun show? They are huge. hundreds if not thousands of people there. Very crowded. So maybe Jake drove to the show himself. Jake could have even arrived earlier or after George and Billy left.

There is no way to call him a liar on that unless we have a statement from Jake saying he rode to the show with George and Billy.

Also Jake could have bought the gun at another vendor stall without George seeing him. It was November in Ohio so I assume Jake was wearing a coat he could have hid a pistol in.

Maybe think about these two things?

JMO

and she had the opportunity to ask JW on direct about he and GW going to the gun show together, we haven't heard JW testimony, but I haven't seen any, media reports discuss JW testifying to him and GW going to a gun show

which to me says they went at different times, maybe even different days if it was a show of more than one day, and again she has to have found who sold the guns so where is the receipt to show they were buying guns together,

 

[rsd1200]

You can not trust GW4, he has been trained from the time he started talking to be a criminal and how to avoid the justice system, GW4 has crazy eyes like Jake, please people do not fall for the lies GW4 is telling, Some how I feel FW is paying a lot of extra money out on this defense, JMO

I doubt it. He has court-appointed attorneys. Everyone knows that private attorneys, in a case of this magnitude, would be preferential, IF G4 had the cash to make it happen. Not knocking his c/a attorneys but even the best of them work on a shoestring budget, with heavier caseloads, and are paid for by the state. FW would have to pay off who? to get what?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Anytime prosecution can get a defendant on the stand and prove they are lying about something, it shows the jury that they are capable of lying and are likely doing so re their innocence.

He did not lie about the other crimes.

JMO

 

[joe jones]

I noticed. I don't think they have a tape of george's MT interview either. If they did they would have had to turn it over to the defense in discovery and George would have already listened to it.

JMO

can't ask him about anything he wasn't asked on direct, his defense team played an absolute blinder in direct examination of GW, they never even tiptoed up to the crime scene evidence once, they never went into finances in depth, so they ensured the state could not ask GW any questions about the actual crimes

IMO it was one piece of spectacular lawyering, and they had this up their sleeve the whole trial

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Exactly, so it is a stretch to think that he knew, saw and did nothing. I wished that AC would have drilled down on his thoughts as to why all of this was going on and he was totally out of the loop.

Maybe because she never believed he was in the loop in the first place.

JMO

 

[Skully67]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Question....in ohio, can you shoot as many deer as you want on your own land.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Let me ask all of you a question. Have you ever planned a surprise birthday party for someone in your family and pulled it off without them knowing any thing about it? Have you ever bought a gift for someone and kept it secret until you presented it to them.

If so then you know that millions of families are able to plan things without one member of the family ever knowing what the others are planning.

Think on that.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm floored the prosecution did not offer a rebuttal. I hope AC takes the following days to put together a succinct closing argument that is more coherent than her opening statement and questioning of GW. I am worried the jury is left just as confused as some viewers are. JMO.

I wouldn't count on it.

 

[joe jones]

George insisted under cross his mother and brother lied during their testimony and confessions to prosecutors, prompting Canepa to sarcastically tell him: “Everybody is lying except you.”

She succeeded in getting several admissions from George including:

• Using an inaccurate (former) address to obtain his Ohio commercial driver’s license;
• Listing an inaccurate (former) address on forms related to his gun ownership, a federal offense punishable by up to 10 years in prison. He told her he was advised to do this because his driver’s license still listed his former address);
• He responded “We paid off our debts with it” when she asked him about a purposely set fire (arson) at one of the Wagner’s former homes, on Bethel Hill Road in Peebles. At first, George told her he didn’t really profit from it (the insurance payout);
• Not reporting his mother for creating fake receipts to turn in these bogus fire loss claims;
• Hunting at night “thousands of times.” Deer hunting hours in Ohio are 30 minutes before sunrise to 30 minutes after sunset, according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources;
• Calling his toddler niece (Jake Wagner’s daughter Sophie) a “b----.” But, George explained on the stand: “After five or six days on caffeine, you say a lot of things you don’t mean.”;
• Failing to notify the mother of his young child know they moved back to Pike County from Alaska in 2018 before the waiting period was up to get an abandonment ruling against her.
  George Wagner IV concludes testimony at his murder trial

nothing to do with murder of 8 people though,

 

[rsd1200]

I guess I'd like to hear testimony that they do have audio of GW4. But it's a moot point. If I was on the jury, I'd be wondering why it wasn't introduced. Canepa saying you said this you said that at Montana interview doesn't cut it for me. I'd dismiss that line of questioning.

I've no respect for the lead prosecutor. If he's guilty or not guilty, I'll never watch another trial that is handled by them. G4 has kept his emotions under control this entire time. The lead prosecutor? Not so much. Unprofessional at best.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Question....in ohio, can you shoot as many deer as you want on your own land.

You can here whether they are in season or not.