OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[rsd1200]

Why is it LE has never shown as much as a leaf, much less a plant? Why no pics of the growing operation? No lights, watering system, etc.? All the pot bust show all kinds of pics of the plants and grow operation, why not this one? If it was of little concern compared to the multiple murders, why did they make such a big deal of it early on and then show no proof it existed?

BBM
I have thought on this a whole lot. I think, because it wasn't a bust.

I believe they let it out, b/c of DS interview, in large part (I saw a tray of plants).

During DeWine's talk with reporters, he was wrapping up, and a lady came up and whispered in his ear. He then came back to the microphone and released that info. I think it was going to get out anyway, so better they released it first.

 

[Elley Mae]

BBM
I have thought on this a whole lot. I think, because it wasn't a bust.

I believe they let it out, b/c of DS interview, in large part (I saw a tray of plants).

During DeWine's talk with reporters, he was wrapping up, and a lady came up and whispered in his ear. He then came back to the microphone and released that info. I think it was going to get out anyway, so better they released it first.

On the subject of the grow operation. With the murders being in april I wondered if what was there was in seedling stage of growth, not quite ready for out doors. Much different then lbs/kilos/bales.

Still think it was for there own use. Jmo

 

[Myland]

KR had a violation of a protective order. The Rs were not shy about fighting for one another, and, then, we have the two week prior, incident. Based on witness accounts, there were weapons present. GR had drug charges. That is not victim bashing. That was in MSM or online records. The Rs and HHG lived their lives, and they didn't seem to care what folks thought. You can't tiptoe around the past. There is a good chance their past will be brought out at trial, by the defense.

Example; My ex, who for all intents and purposes was a despicable father, who drank himself to death, found Jesus, six months or so before he left this world. Good on him. In some family member's view, that's the only memories we are to have of him. His last six months... Uhm, Nooooo. I got lots of memories; They range from funny, sad, peeved, to nigh on hate. His finding Jesus, nor his death, didn't change his past.

The Rs and HHG, seemed to be down to earth, do their own thing, folks. That doesn't change the fact that they had a bit of history.

I completely agree with your statements above. In no do I think they deserved to die. No way at all. But history can not be changed due to them being victims. No way what they did gives anyone the right to take their lives and what they did in the past doesn’t no way compare to what the killers did. From what I know about the victims they were good to their families and to a lot of others, but they still had some things that could have caused them a lot of trouble. The reality is the defense will probably have some not so nice things to say about them unless the Wagners are guilty and try for a plea bargain. Jmo

 

[KentuckyMama]

If you don't want them to have sex, you don't allow them to have stay overs at one another's homes. Bf/gf goes to their respective home, to spend the night, after the "date" is over.

HMR conceived S, just six weeks shy of 16. JW was 20. She and JW had been dating 2 1/2 years at the time. That's a long time for teen relationships. Six more weeks, and we'd not even be having a discussion about the extra charge against JW. If I were him, that charge, would be the least of my worries right now.

I'd agree it's the least of his worries right now. I think the reason they added that charge was because it's a great way to prevent future visits with S. If he were to get out jail and still have to register as a sex offender, I'd say that will prevent visitation unless supervised at the very least. Maybe this is just insurance in the unlikely case he doesn't go down for the other charges. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

On the subject of the grow operation. With the murders being in april I wondered if what was there was in seedling stage of growth, not quite ready for out doors. Much different then lbs/kilos/bales.

Still think it was for there own use. Jmo

I think so. I believe they'd just finished with a grow, and had started a new one. They may have even had hydroponics going on. That reduces the space needed. During drying time, they may have used the side part of the barn, or hung it in the trailer, if it was, in fact, a shell.

 

[rsd1200]

They haven't shown anything in this case from the beginning onward.

I live on an island, Lido Key outside of Sarasota. We have people living here from all over the US, actually several countries as well. I can guarantee we have no one from the Pike County area living here. I don't think they would feel comfortable.

BBM
Been there. Nice place to visit. Mote Marine is awesome, and there's a beautiful beach, but, I agree, the Rs probably wouldn't want to make it their home.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks for the great post, Mittens. I agree completely. The Rhodens weren't a "bad" family, certainly not deserving of their fate. Anyone who has raised teenagers knows what a perilous job it can be. Peer pressure is a major factor in problems young folks experience. Much has been made of HMR "dating" JW when she was 13, but we shouldn't assume this was occurred with parental consent. Two parents working long hours at their jobs often struggle to keep track of kid's activities during the hours after school. I'd wager much of HMR's early dating with JW happened without knowledge of her parents, or as we used to call it "sneaking around". The same applies for trying to control sexual activity in teens. I'm sure HMR's parents were dismayed when she became pregnant at such an early age but, like many parents in that situation, made the best of a bad situation. They made her finish school and she was already working at a nurse's aide job by the time she had her second child.

As for CR1 & KR's grow op, it seems they kept it small. Both were gifted horticulturalists. Read "Death In the Foothills" interview with Tony Rhoden where he describes learning gardening and orchard management from their father, Clarence. When you have to rely on your gardening skills to put food on the table, you become an expert. It was logical they would pursue a grow op to help supplement their income, especially when times were changing and Ohio was moving towards legalization. I'd like to think both of them would be involved in commercial growing operations had they lived. Their skills would have been in demand.

I do find it interesting that nearly all of the false negative commentary about the victims on social media has ceased since the arrest of the Wagners. Apparently the killers were pretty good at waging a strong social media campaign against the people they murdered and their surviving family members.

BBM

I'd wager much of HMR's early dating with JW happened without knowledge of her parents, or as we used to call it "sneaking around".

There is no way I am going to say anything about the actions of someone else's teenagers. That has a way of coming back on you and I have grandchildren and great grandchildren under the age of 12 who are yet to commit a stupid teenage mistake.

So I will tell a story about my own son when he was 15. We live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else. This was before all the kids had cell phones. Every Friday he would ask to stay the night with his friend I will call Rick. Of course we said it was ok. This went on for a few months. One night at 3:00 AM we get a call. It is another boy's mother I will call Jason. She tells me that Jason's younger sister is very ill and they are taking her to the hospital and will I bring Jason to the emergency room. I tell her Jason is not here and she says but he was supposed to stay the night with your son. She asks if I will ask my son where he is and I tell her my son is at Rick's house but I will call him and ask. I call Rick's house and his mother says no my son is not there and Rick was at Jason's house where he is staying the night. So I drag hubby up out of bed and we go looking for 3 boys who are not where they said they would be. Around 5:00 AM we spot them walking down the street. They had been to a party at the house of an older boy who was 19 and lived on his own. We finally got out of them that they had been going to this boy's house every Friday night.

So I will end with this. About the time you say your teenager would never do that, he/she is out doing it right then. Often before you can get the words out of your mouth.

So yes it is very possible that HR was sneaking around and dating JW while her parents was at work.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

I lived over half of my 63 years along the Rio Grande valley, and I will agree that it’s more like Mexico than other parts of the US. To an outsider, it would seem like a different country. Same can be said about lots of other places when viewed as an outsider.

BBM
Beautiful countryside. Our hosts were shocked that we'd ventured outside of their range. They'd lived there 20 years, and never ventured out of a safe zone, that they'd set for themselves. Couldn't live like that.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

I'd wager much of HMR's early dating with JW happened without knowledge of her parents, or as we used to call it "sneaking around".

There is no way I am going to say anything about the actions of someone else's teenagers. That has a way of coming back on you and I have grandchildren and great grandchildren under the age of 12 who are yet to commit a stupid teenage mistake.

So I will tell a story about my own son when he was 15. We live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else. This was before all the kids had cell phones. Every Friday he would ask to stay the night with his friend I will call Rick. Of course we said it was ok. This went on for a few months. One night at 3:00 AM we get a call. It is another boy's mother I will call Jason. She tells me that Jason's younger sister is very ill and they are taking her to the hospital and will I bring Jason to the emergency room. I tell her Jason is not here and she says but he was supposed to stay the night with your son. She asks if I will ask my son where he is and I tell her my son is at Rick's house but I will call him and ask. I call Rick's house and his mother says no my son is not there and Rick was at Jason's house where he is staying the night. So I drag hubby up out of bed and we go looking for 3 boys who are not where they said they would be. Around 5:00 AM we spot them walking down the street. They had been to a party at the house of an older boy who was 19 and lived on his own. We finally got out of them that they had been going to this boy's house every Friday night.

So I will end with this. About the time you say your teenager would never do that, he/she is out doing it right then. Often before you can get the words out of your mouth.

So yes it is very possible that HR was sneaking around and dating JW while her parents was at work.

JMO

Agree. One of mine spent the night down the road, and was actually at the friend's house. The parents didn't know it, but they managed to sneak out and hitched to a bus stop, and made it to CINCINNATI! At age 14. They were looking to leave this town, and make it big in movies. I got a call from LE giving me exactly two hours to come get mine or they'd release them. The other parent? Asked if could just grab theirs while I got mine. Needless to say, we broke speed limits, and sound barriers, getting to Cinci. Also, last overnight at the friend's house.

However, with that said, CR1 and DR, did know, when they gave her permission to go to Fla with them. She was 14, IIRC. Not demeaning their choice, they probably saw it as an adventure, and were friends with the Ws at that point, but, with an 18 y.o. bf, it would have been a NO, for me.

 

[willowisp]

I knew some one that was a grand mother at age 26. I'm not sure if they were from that area originally but had the same family values...

I lived for several years not long ago in a rural area of New York State which in some ways is not dissimilar to Appalachian or Ozarkian lifestyles and worldviews. There too was and is a multi-generational pattern of very hard work, not much money, not wonderful education and, oftentimes, early relationships and pregnancies. In my time there I came to know several of these families very well, and counted them as friends. What did they have? Love. In the families I knew, there was generosity, hospitality, warmth, straightforwardness, and love. If they liked you (which meant, if they knew you weren't going to stare down your nose at them and run them down behind their backs) their kindness was boundless. You cannot visit without being offered a meal. Yes, a meal made in a ratty trailer. A great meal. Notice how often the late Kenneth Rhoden (Gary's father) and Leonard Manley characterized family members as people who would "give you the shirt off their back". This code of generosity matters absolutely to families such as these. The generational early relationships and pregnancies are troubling to outsiders, for many legitimate reasons: what about education, we might ask. What about their futures, health, money, furthering themselves, getting out, breaking the cycles. All valid questions to ask. After all, all of our children become a part of the collective society eventually. But within families such as those I knew, there was a fatalism, an acceptance, and a depthless joy in every new family member. It can all seem, from the outside, irresponsible, cavalier, rash. But in my own experience there's more to it. In this utterly Shakespearean drama between the Rhodens and the Wagners, what for me surmounts all is an overwhelming sense that the Rhodens love(d) each other, and that the Wagners are empty - incapable of love, even for one another.

 

[rsd1200]

I completely agree with your statements above. In no do I think they deserved to die. No way at all. But history can not be changed due to them being victims. No way what they did gives anyone the right to take their lives and what they did in the past doesn’t no way compare to what the killers did. From what I know about the victims they were good to their families and to a lot of others, but they still had some things that could have caused them a lot of trouble. The reality is the defense will probably have some not so nice things to say about them unless the Wagners are guilty and try for a plea bargain. Jmo

I had even heard from one person, who was a family member, that CR1 had paid funeral expenses, for someone. They didn't have much, and he told the funeral home to let them pick out what they wanted, and send the bill to him. They helped their family members, with vehicles, and low rent, and work. I believe they were good hearted people, but, I know lots of good-hearted folks, who have had a few skeletons. Doesn't make them horrible people. Premeditated Murder? That makes you a dangerous, horrible, and despicable, human being.

 

[rsd1200]

I lived for several years not long ago in a rural area of New York State which in some ways is not dissimilar to Appalachian or Ozarkian lifestyles and worldviews. There too was and is a multi-generational pattern of very hard work, not much money, not wonderful education and, oftentimes, early relationships and pregnancies. In my time there I came to know several of these families very well, and counted them as friends. What did they have? Love. In the families I knew, there was generosity, hospitality, warmth, straightforwardness, and love. If they liked you (which meant, if they knew you weren't going to stare down your nose at them and run them down behind their backs) their kindness was boundless. You cannot visit without being offered a meal. Yes, a meal made in a ratty trailer. A great meal. Notice how often the late Kenneth Rhoden (Gary's father) and Leonard Manley characterized family members as people who would "give you the shirt off their back". This code of generosity matters absolutely to families such as these. The generational early relationships and pregnancies are troubling to outsiders, for many legitimate reasons: what about education, we might ask. What about their futures, health, money, furthering themselves, getting out, breaking the cycles. All valid questions to ask. After all, all of our children become a part of the collective society eventually. But within families such as those I knew, there was a fatalism, an acceptance, and a depthless joy in every new family member. It can all seem, from the outside, irresponsible, cavalier, rash. But in my own experience there's more to it. In this utterly Shakespearean drama between the Rhodens and the Wagners, what for me surmounts all is an overwhelming sense that the Rhodens love(d) each other, and that the Wagners are empty - incapable of love, even for one another.

Amen. Summed up beautifully. What a great first post!

 

[LadyL]

A girl can get pregnant as soon as she is menstruating. Obviously there can be health implications even setting apart issues over consent.

yeah I knew that ... just having a stupid moment yesterday

 

[taximama24]

The reality is the defense will probably have some not so nice things to say about them unless the Wagners are guilty and try for a plea bargain. Jmo

The thing with that is though, the ONLY time the victim's actions come into play is with self defense. As it stands, with most victims sleeping and with babies laying next to them, etc, there is a negative chance in hell self defense applies here. As such, the R's character can be debated until the cows (or in this case, miniature ponies and mastiffs) come home and it doesn't matter how horrible they may or may not have been it won't apply inside the courtroom because we do not have an "eye for an eye" judicial system. In fact, the moment the defense tries to bring it up, I would expect the prosecution to "object" on grounds of "the R's are not on trial here." That said though, I'd actually be very surprised if the defense even chose to bring up much of the "bad blood" between the two families because really all that will serve to do is strengthen the juries perception that the W's were enacting revenge for a long standing feud.

The fact of the matter is, if this had been one murder the W's may very well have gotten away with it, it would have been easier to plant the seed of doubt on self defense or anonymous drug deal gone bad, or even to keep it swept under the carpet as LM eluded to typically happening when it came to the W's. But their desire to eliminate S's entire other side of the family is likely their biggest downfall before we even talk about the strength of physical evidence they left or possibility of a CI turning on them. Not even the infamous Hatfield's and McCoy's killed 8 members of the same family, and history doesn't give us a precedent for drug cartels or serial killers that hit an entire family on the same night and fly out under the radar (again, unlikely a drug cartel felt threatened by 200 seedlings anyway).

 

[KentuckyMama]

BBM

I'd wager much of HMR's early dating with JW happened without knowledge of her parents, or as we used to call it "sneaking around".

There is no way I am going to say anything about the actions of someone else's teenagers. That has a way of coming back on you and I have grandchildren and great grandchildren under the age of 12 who are yet to commit a stupid teenage mistake.

So I will tell a story about my own son when he was 15. We live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else. This was before all the kids had cell phones. Every Friday he would ask to stay the night with his friend I will call Rick. Of course we said it was ok. This went on for a few months. One night at 3:00 AM we get a call. It is another boy's mother I will call Jason. She tells me that Jason's younger sister is very ill and they are taking her to the hospital and will I bring Jason to the emergency room. I tell her Jason is not here and she says but he was supposed to stay the night with your son. She asks if I will ask my son where he is and I tell her my son is at Rick's house but I will call him and ask. I call Rick's house and his mother says no my son is not there and Rick was at Jason's house where he is staying the night. So I drag hubby up out of bed and we go looking for 3 boys who are not where they said they would be. Around 5:00 AM we spot them walking down the street. They had been to a party at the house of an older boy who was 19 and lived on his own. We finally got out of them that they had been going to this boy's house every Friday night.

So I will end with this. About the time you say your teenager would never do that, he/she is out doing it right then. Often before you can get the words out of your mouth.

So yes it is very possible that HR was sneaking around and dating JW while her parents was at work.

JMO

I love your story. I was a bit wild when I was a teenager too. Snuck out often. My mother used to warn me that when I had kids of my own I would be paid back with interest for the things I put her through. I wish everyday I could tell her she was right and apologize for being such a pain. My oldest son is nearly 15 now. My daughter just turned 12. My youngest boy is 8. My boys are laid back and easy going. My daughter has been so different. I worry. A lot. When I was pregnant with her I just knew she was gonna be a girl. That's when the fear starts!. I hoped for a short chunky girl. Preferably with a moustache. So boys wouldn't be an issue. Nope. She's taller than me already. A cheerleader. And beautiful. I hate it! She does not look 12. Had a grown man do a double take of her in the grocery a few months ago. He circled the aisle we were in twice. I not so politely informed him she was 12 and I would cut him. We can't control what they do 24/7. We just hope we have taught them enough to help them make good choices.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

KR had a violation of a protective order. The Rs were not shy about fighting for one another, and, then, we have the two week prior, incident. Based on witness accounts, there were weapons present. GR had drug charges. That is not victim bashing. That was in MSM or online records. The Rs and HHG lived their lives, and they didn't seem to care what folks thought. You can't tiptoe around the past. There is a good chance their past will be brought out at trial, by the defense.

Example; My ex, who for all intents and purposes was a despicable father, who drank himself to death, found Jesus, six months or so before he left this world. Good on him. In some family member's view, that's the only memories we are to have of him. His last six months... Uhm, Nooooo. I got lots of memories; They range from funny, sad, peeved, to nigh on hate. His finding Jesus, nor his death, didn't change his past.

The Rs and HHG, seemed to be down to earth, do their own thing, folks. That doesn't change the fact that they had a bit of history.

I totally understand that the R’s has a history. I guess my point was more so that we all have a history. We all have struggles and mistakes. I don’t believe the R’s mistakes should factor into the murder trials unless there’s an underlying motive directly related to anything you mentioned. I hope that makes sense and I explained my view clearly.

 

[willowisp]

Amen. Summed up beautifully. What a great first post!

Thanks.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

IMO this article shows that the W's have a propensity for solving their problems with a gun. It also shows they were thieves. I am wondering if they stole anything from the R's that led to that falling out.

JMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM

I'd wager much of HMR's early dating with JW happened without knowledge of her parents, or as we used to call it "sneaking around".

There is no way I am going to say anything about the actions of someone else's teenagers. That has a way of coming back on you and I have grandchildren and great grandchildren under the age of 12 who are yet to commit a stupid teenage mistake.

So I will tell a story about my own son when he was 15. We live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else. This was before all the kids had cell phones. Every Friday he would ask to stay the night with his friend I will call Rick. Of course we said it was ok. This went on for a few months. One night at 3:00 AM we get a call. It is another boy's mother I will call Jason. She tells me that Jason's younger sister is very ill and they are taking her to the hospital and will I bring Jason to the emergency room. I tell her Jason is not here and she says but he was supposed to stay the night with your son. She asks if I will ask my son where he is and I tell her my son is at Rick's house but I will call him and ask. I call Rick's house and his mother says no my son is not there and Rick was at Jason's house where he is staying the night. So I drag hubby up out of bed and we go looking for 3 boys who are not where they said they would be. Around 5:00 AM we spot them walking down the street. They had been to a party at the house of an older boy who was 19 and lived on his own. We finally got out of them that they had been going to this boy's house every Friday night.

So I will end with this. About the time you say your teenager would never do that, he/she is out doing it right then. Often before you can get the words out of your mouth.

So yes it is very possible that HR was sneaking around and dating JW while her parents was at work.

JMO

Great example. From my own personal experience, I pulled that same kind of “trick” on my own mother many moons ago. I said I was staying at a friends and the friend said they were staying at my house. We in fact were 15 year olds who were up to no good-drinking, smoking pot, and with our older boyfriends. At about 8 am, we realized we had no where to sleep and had to come up with another story to be able to get into one of our houses and go to bed

And today, I’m so thankful I’m old and tired and know all the tricks (cause I pulled them myself lol) since I’m now raising teens myself

 

[evelezrn]

BBM

I'd wager much of HMR's early dating with JW happened without knowledge of her parents, or as we used to call it "sneaking around".

There is no way I am going to say anything about the actions of someone else's teenagers. That has a way of coming back on you and I have grandchildren and great grandchildren under the age of 12 who are yet to commit a stupid teenage mistake.

So I will tell a story about my own son when he was 15. We live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else. This was before all the kids had cell phones. Every Friday he would ask to stay the night with his friend I will call Rick. Of course we said it was ok. This went on for a few months. One night at 3:00 AM we get a call. It is another boy's mother I will call Jason. She tells me that Jason's younger sister is very ill and they are taking her to the hospital and will I bring Jason to the emergency room. I tell her Jason is not here and she says but he was supposed to stay the night with your son. She asks if I will ask my son where he is and I tell her my son is at Rick's house but I will call him and ask. I call Rick's house and his mother says no my son is not there and Rick was at Jason's house where he is staying the night. So I drag hubby up out of bed and we go looking for 3 boys who are not where they said they would be. Around 5:00 AM we spot them walking down the street. They had been to a party at the house of an older boy who was 19 and lived on his own. We finally got out of them that they had been going to this boy's house every Friday night.

So I will end with this. About the time you say your teenager would never do that, he/she is out doing it right then. Often before you can get the words out of your mouth.

So yes it is very possible that HR was sneaking around and dating JW while her parents was at work.

JMO

THIS is so very true. I learned that lesson the hard way myself with my own teenagers many years ago. The minute I would say, "MY angel would NEVER do that", I would find out "Oh yes, My Angel DID do that (and sometimes worse)". Whew, don't judge the parent of another teenager.