OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[pepper 34]

I’m confused by the new title- were all 8 victims living on a pot farm? Apologies and thanks in advance

No, they weren't.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I was thinking about the insulation used in the homemade silencers and researched the possibility of particles being implanted into the victims, I found an article that supports this theory.
Forensic Evidence: Science and the Criminal Law, Second Edition

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1420038060
Terrence F. Kiely - 2005 - ‎Law
How fibers are released from clothing, and the possible significance of the presence or ... The expert opinion in this case could have assisted the jury in determining the ... Police concluded that tennis ball particles, such as those found on victim Glee's ... would also have been ejected from a homemade sound suppressor.

I feel that pieces of the silencer was embedded in the wounds of the victims and that is why DeWine fought so hard to keep that autopsy out of the hands of new media.

If those autopsy reports had been released to the public that would have alerted the W's to the presence of pieces of silencer and they would have gotten rid of all the evidence.

JMO

 

[OsoTejano]

I don’t like the new title. It seems disrespectful to the victims and not victim-friendly.

Has it ever been proven that they lived on a large-scale pot farm operation?

The child custody was what triggered the murders, so why is “Pot Farm” even in the title.

I thought this was a victim-friendly site

I agree with the others. The pot farm does a great disservice to the victims here. Yeah their may have been some pot being grown at 2 of 4 murder sites, but that appears to been pretty small scale.

 

[Normrock]

Are you wondering if the parts from the home made silencer were part of that initial evidence? We'll find out when the trials begin. One theory is that some of the "fluff" or special insulation used in these silencers may have remained behind. Seems possible, considering how many shots were fired.

From your linked article, this still bugs me

I am playing devils advocate here. Before people start asking if I'm a friend or on Ws side. Go read when I first posted my reasons for being here. Also, one person quoted the Bill of Rights earlier. Read 6th amendment bottom of post. Yes I think LE has devastating evidence of guilt of Ws. My main observation is because if they didn't the politician (Dewine) would have disappeared like a poot in a hurricane. Defense will try to explain away suppressors with hunting and attack forensics with all experts having all sorts of different theories trying to confuse juries and create doubt. Personally I think LE has Ws on audio/video discussing murders in which attorneys will be breaking down prosecutors door to plead out.



Legislative Service Commission

Ohio, house bill 234 signed into law 3-23-15
Use of suppressor on gun while hunting game birds or wild qu
adrupeds

Authorizes a person who holds a valid hunting license to use a suppressor attached
to an authorized gun while hunting game birds or wild quadrupeds (R.C. 1533.04).

Exempts a person who owns a firearm muffler or suppressor attached to a gun that
is
authorized to be used for hunting from the existing prohibition against knowingly
acquiring, having, carrying, or using any dangerous ordnance (R.C. 2923.17).

Replaces "silencer" with "suppressor" within the definition of "dangerous ordnance"
and in provisions requiring mandatory prison terms for conviction of a firearms
specification (R.C. 2923.11(K), 2929.14(B)(1)(a)(i),
and
2941.144(A))
https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/documents/gaDocuments/analyses130/h0234-rs-130.pdf

6th Amendment
This Amendment is present in all trials or court cases in America. The 6th Amendment in the American Constitution guarantees an individual the right to a fair, speedy, and public trial. The 6th Amendment also enables an individual to have legal assistance, regardless of the charge, and the right to confront adverse witnesses and notice of accusations. These rights are given to all men or women under trial for any sort of wrongdoing. They establish the “innocent until proven guilty” mantra that is present in the United States legal system.

 

[Myland]

In the articles from sept 2018 on the autopsy it states Dana was shot methodically 4 times to the right side of her head. Wonder why it states it that way? Then it states she was shot under the chin. Why the methodically part?

 

[pepper 34]

I am playing devils advocate here. Before people start asking if I'm a friend or on Ws side. Go read when I first posted my reasons for being here. Also, one person quoted the Bill of Rights earlier. Read 6th amendment bottom of post. Yes I think LE has devastating evidence of guilt of Ws. My main observation is because if they didn't the politician (Dewine) would have disappeared like a poot in a hurricane. Defense will try to explain away suppressors with hunting and attack forensics with all experts having all sorts of different theories trying to confuse juries and create doubt. Personally I think LE has Ws on audio/video discussing murders in which attorneys will be breaking down prosecutors door to plead out.



Legislative Service Commission

Ohio, house bill 234 signed into law 3-23-15
Use of suppressor on gun while hunting game birds or wild qu
adrupeds

Authorizes a person who holds a valid hunting license to use a suppressor attached
to an authorized gun while hunting game birds or wild quadrupeds (R.C. 1533.04).

Exempts a person who owns a firearm muffler or suppressor attached to a gun that
is
authorized to be used for hunting from the existing prohibition against knowingly
acquiring, having, carrying, or using any dangerous ordnance (R.C. 2923.17).

Replaces "silencer" with "suppressor" within the definition of "dangerous ordnance"
and in provisions requiring mandatory prison terms for conviction of a firearms
specification (R.C. 2923.11(K), 2929.14(B)(1)(a)(i),
and
2941.144(A))
https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/documents/gaDocuments/analyses130/h0234-rs-130.pdf

6th Amendment
This Amendment is present in all trials or court cases in America. The 6th Amendment in the American Constitution guarantees an individual the right to a fair, speedy, and public trial. The 6th Amendment also enables an individual to have legal assistance, regardless of the charge, and the right to confront adverse witnesses and notice of accusations. These rights are given to all men or women under trial for any sort of wrongdoing. They establish the “innocent until proven guilty” mantra that is present in the United States legal system.

I'm not so sure the defense is going to try to justify the suppressors by tying the use of them with hunting. If the materials from the suppressor(s) is found inside the murdered people's wounds... bringing the hunting into it won't help the Wags imo. By my way of thinking, that's like me being accused of killing someone with a serrated knife and my defense attorney says,
"Oh, yes... but she can have serrated knives because she uses them to cut her steak and bread."
(But, I can use that serrated knife to kill someone and that's what I'm being accused of.) How does this help me in my defense?

 

[Myland]

I'm not so sure the defense is going to try to justify the suppressors by tying the use of them with hunting. If the materials from the suppressor(s) is found inside the murdered people's wounds... bringing the hunting into it won't help the Wags imo. By my way of thinking, that's like me being accused of killing someone with a serrated knife and my defense attorney says,
"Oh, yes... but she can have serrated knives because she uses them to cut her steak and bread."
(But, I can use that serrated knife to kill someone and that's what I'm being accused of.) How does this help me in my defense?

I agree with both of you. Many pictures have been posted to show how much they loved hunting. Also if the material is exact match found at scene and Wagners that would be good evidence, unless the material used was common materials. I don’t know what fluff is or what is inside a silencer, but if a common material that can be purchased from different places then the defense could use that.

 

[rsd1200]

The pets thing is all of the dogs at the various properties. IIRC, CR1 had 2 or 3, DR had 2 or 3, and KR had 1. Either the dogs were lousy watchdogs, or the dogs and the killers knew each other very well, or who knows - maybe something like that Blake Shelton song Ol’ Red

That's how I took it too. They surveilled the pets. I think it was just worded odd.

 

[pepper 34]

In the articles from sept 2018 on the autopsy it states Dana was shot methodically 4 times to the right side of her head. Wonder why it states it that way? Then it states she was shot under the chin. Why the methodically part?

I read the shots to Dana's head were all lined up as though the person shot once and then moved the gun a bit and shot again and did that 4 times... iow, sort of like in a "sewing machine stitch pattern." (That's my personal description from my interpretation of what I read.) I also read she was shot across her forehead that way with one shot under the chin. I was surprised, then, to read, in MSM exactly what you read about "right side of head." I read both what I described and what you described in MSM because I don't read SM or anywhere that is not approved by the WS site. I don't have the link, sorry... but know I read both in a legitimate news site and so I have no idea which is more accurate.

 

[Betty P]

I’m confused by the new title- were all 8 victims living on a pot farm? Apologies and thanks in advance

No, they weren't all living on a pot farm. According to Sheriff Reader and AG DeWine, there were only grow ops at the homes of CR1 and KR.

Maybe we can ask them to correct it on the next thread.

 

[Betty P]

I'm still a novice at this. Raisin, Betty P, and rsd1200 are WAY better than me digging up info.


You are far too modest Dudley. You, Betty, RSD, Mittens and many others on here are great researchers.

JMO

Thanks, but you're very good, Raisin. Here at WS, it's team work combining good research and good analytical skills. JMO, teamwork is most important because someone else is always going to analyze things differently or catch something important that the rest of us missed. Then there are special skills of some folks here at WS who are experts in legal, medical and other fields. Everyone brings something different to the table.

I first came here following a case and spent about 3 months or so just reading and seldom commenting. It took me months to contribute anything analytical. You can learn a lot here. TOS makes it fact and evidence based.

 

[Myland]

I read the shots to Dana's head were all lined up as though the person shot once and then moved the gun a bit and shot again and did that 4 times... iow, sort of like in a "sewing machine stitch pattern." (That's my personal description from my interpretation of what I read.) I also read she was shot across her forehead that way with one shot under the chin. I was surprised, then, to read, in MSM exactly what you read about "right side of head." I read both what I described and what you described in MSM because I don't read SM or anywhere that is not approved by the WS site. I don't have the link, sorry... but know I read both in a legitimate news site and so I have no idea which is more accurate.

I found it odd that only hers was stated that way. Maybe the killers were most angry with her and Chris sr. Jmo

 

[rsd1200]

I am playing devils advocate here. Before people start asking if I'm a friend or on Ws side. Go read when I first posted my reasons for being here. Also, one person quoted the Bill of Rights earlier. Read 6th amendment bottom of post. Yes I think LE has devastating evidence of guilt of Ws. My main observation is because if they didn't the politician (Dewine) would have disappeared like a poot in a hurricane. Defense will try to explain away suppressors with hunting and attack forensics with all experts having all sorts of different theories trying to confuse juries and create doubt. Personally I think LE has Ws on audio/video discussing murders in which attorneys will be breaking down prosecutors door to plead out.



Legislative Service Commission

Ohio, house bill 234 signed into law 3-23-15
Use of suppressor on gun while hunting game birds or wild qu
adrupeds

Authorizes a person who holds a valid hunting license to use a suppressor attached
to an authorized gun while hunting game birds or wild quadrupeds (R.C. 1533.04).

Exempts a person who owns a firearm muffler or suppressor attached to a gun that
is
authorized to be used for hunting from the existing prohibition against knowingly
acquiring, having, carrying, or using any dangerous ordnance (R.C. 2923.17).

Replaces "silencer" with "suppressor" within the definition of "dangerous ordnance"
and in provisions requiring mandatory prison terms for conviction of a firearms
specification (R.C. 2923.11(K), 2929.14(B)(1)(a)(i),
and
2941.144(A))
https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/documents/gaDocuments/analyses130/h0234-rs-130.pdf

6th Amendment
This Amendment is present in all trials or court cases in America. The 6th Amendment in the American Constitution guarantees an individual the right to a fair, speedy, and public trial. The 6th Amendment also enables an individual to have legal assistance, regardless of the charge, and the right to confront adverse witnesses and notice of accusations. These rights are given to all men or women under trial for any sort of wrongdoing. They establish the “innocent until proven guilty” mantra that is present in the United States legal system.

The problems that I would have, as a juror, would be, if the W's attys. could not present me with a copy of the W's applications, receipts for federal criminal background checks, and, most importantly, approvals for their application(s) to the BATFE, to obtain said silencer(s) legally, then they've once again had no problem with breaking the law to suit themselves.

With the Ws past criminal histories, I would find it surprising that the BATFE would give them approval to own one, let alone more than one (AW is a felon). I understand that they did build their own. Illegal, no matter how you look at it.

 

[rsd1200]

In the articles from sept 2018 on the autopsy it states Dana was shot methodically 4 times to the right side of her head. Wonder why it states it that way? Then it states she was shot under the chin. Why the methodically part?

In a news release, it stated she was shot four times across the forehead, once in the temple, and once under the chin. Methodically means deliberate, orderly, so, without going further, I have come to think that DR's death was even more gruesome, and was meant to be.

 

[Dudly]

No in the indictment is states like they were used by the killers in some way. How could the killers use the dogs for their purpose?

Listening device attached to a collar maybe? That was my first thought. Those can be very small. I think anything else would have been too noticeable.
B6 Lavalier Microphone for Shure wireless, -20dB, Tan (Black shown) by Countryman, B6W6FF05T-SL | Full Compass Systems

 

[Normrock]

I agree with both of you. Many pictures have been posted to show how much they loved hunting. Also if the material is exact match found at scene and Wagners that would be good evidence, unless the material used was common materials. I don’t know what fluff is or what is inside a silencer, but if a common material that can be purchased from different places then the defense could use that.

Fluff to me is some sort of cloth material. Since apparently all the W boys were mechanically inclined. It doesn't seem far fetched they made metal suppressors( cheap ones). A PVC one doesn't seem to me to hold up to 32 rounds ( even though I feel there were more than one weapon.) The soda bottle and oil filter ones seem to good for 1 to 2 shots max. How to make all the above suppressors are all over youtube and demonstrations of them too.

 

[Dudly]

In the articles from sept 2018 on the autopsy it states Dana was shot methodically 4 times to the right side of her head. Wonder why it states it that way? Then it states she was shot under the chin. Why the methodically part?

It may be that the wounds are all spaced in an equal distance or certain pattern, rather than a random pattern...

 

[Normrock]

In a news release, it stated she was shot four times across the forehead, once in the temple, and once under the chin. Methodically means deliberate, orderly, so, without going further, I have come to think that DR's death was even more gruesome, and was meant to be.

Ms. Gilleys seemed to gruesome too. Also, the CR2 shot twice in top of head.

 

[Dudly]

Fluff to me is some sort of cloth material. Since apparently all the W boys were mechanically inclined. It doesn't seem far fetched they made metal suppressors( cheap ones). A PVC one doesn't seem to me to hold up to 32 rounds ( even though I feel there were more than one weapon.) The soda bottle and oil filter ones seem to good for 1 to 2 shots max. How to make all the above suppressors are all over youtube and demonstrations of them too.

There is even one made from an oil filter for a car.

 

[Myland]

In a news release, it stated she was shot four times across the forehead, once in the temple, and once under the chin. Methodically means deliberate, orderly, so, without going further, I have come to think that DR's death was even more gruesome, and was meant to be.

I agree. Whether is was to the right side or forehead. Under the chin makes me wonder if the killers had ahold of her. If she screamed and that gave time for cr junior to try to hide.jmo