OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#39

[rsd1200]

LE, to get necessary info, can do their best to ensure the CI remains confidential. Happens all the time.

The defendant's lawyer can't cross examine a recording, or a missing witness. There's that pesky confrontation clause in our Sixth Amendment

"in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to be confronted with the witnesses against him."

If they just play a recording, the quality had best be like Memorex. Just like being there.

 

[Trudie]

You know me, haha, I’ll give my thoughts:

First, Aileen’s case is one that has disturbed me for a long time. It’s clear to me from watching both documentaries about Aileen, that she was deeply disturbed and deeply traumatized. In no way do I condone what she did, however the woman needed help long before becoming a serial killer and she was failed.

My answers to a few of the questions (I apologize for the length in advance)

• Why might jurors dismiss mitigating factors such as childhood abuse or alcoholism? People can’t relate to what they don’t understand. Without knowledge and research showing the harm and deep effects of childhood abuse and/or alcoholism, both are topics still brushed aside from those that are uninformed. IMO, a lot of people doubt when an adult says they were abused as a child. And alcoholism, well unless you’ve loved someone who is or was an alcoholic, you really have no clue the effects. Those effects run deep.
• Some people argue that many people who have horrible childhoods nonetheless do not become criminals. How would you respond to this argument? Do you think this kind of information is irrelevant to the jury’s decision? I’d respond by saying just because they don’t alwaus become criminals doesn’t discount a poor childhood nor does it mean the person doesn’t struggle in other areas of life, wherever it be relationships, addiction, gambling, etc.
• If you had been a juror in Aileen Wuornos's case, would you have found her background to be a mitigating factor? If so, would you have sentenced her to death? I would have found Aileen’s background to be a mitigating factor. Not only did she have a diagnosed personality disorder, she had repeated traumas, both emotional and physical, from an early age and throughout her life. We only become what we know. Someone such as Aileen, who was a murderer, was also a victim herself. It doesn’t justify what she did but knowing her life and traumas makes her actions more understandable. There is a why for every action. I also would not have sentenced her to death. The DP is not something I’m much of a supporter of, but regardless of that and being open minded about the DP as a juror, there’s no way I could have sentenced her to death feeling she was a victim in life herself along with being mentally unstable. All JMO.

Great post!

So, do you think you’d find mitigating circumstances valid in any DP case?

 

[Trudie]

The defendant's lawyer can't cross examine a recording, or a missing witness. There's that pesky confrontation clause in our Sixth Amendment

"in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to be confronted with the witnesses against him."

If they just play a recording, the quality had best be like Memorex. Just like being there.

While normally prosecutors have to disclose all witnesses who are relevant to the case whether or not those witnesses will testify, they often don’t have to reveal the identity of confidential informants (CIs).

Our Little Secret
The government has an interest in not giving up the identity of a confidential informant to a defendant or anyone else. After all, a CI is someone who came to the police voluntarily and doesn’t wish to be identified, often because of a fear of retaliation.

Courts have long recognized the importance of the confidential informant in solving crime. Police gain information and leads from these informants that they may not be able to learn from other sources. If police reveal the identity of an informant, they may not get any more information from that person, and others may be afraid to serve as informants. Given the importance of CIs, courts have granted them privilege, which means that they don’t have to be disclosed in the same way as other witnesses.

Learning the Identity of a Confidential Informant

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Fredericka and Bob from years ago. She used to help the less fortunate at the holidays by providing them with food baskets, not sure if she still does or not. Like her or not, she is a generous and compassionate old soul. I seriously just find it hard to believe she is in this mess.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Great post!

So, do you think you’d find mitigating circumstances valid in any DP case?

I’m not sure. It depends on the circumstances and history behind them. For example, I’m gonna guess at some point Chris Watts will be diagnosed with a personality disorder and narcissism, but those would be irrelevant to me because he wasn’t failed in his life. He’s a sociopath. I know he already took a plea and all of that, but just giving an example.

What’s strange is Jose Baez went for the childhood abuse angle with Casey Anthony and it worked. I’d still like to hear from those jurors because as an outsider looking in, I never believed that’s for a second. She’s another sociopath. JMO.

Oh and you could look at Aileen and see she wasn’t “normal”. You could see it in her eyes, hear it when she spoke, and observe it in her body language. She wasn’t a sociopath- she was deeply, deeply damaged.

 

[Trudie]

I’m not sure. It depends on the circumstances and history behind them. For example, I’m gonna guess at some point Chris Watts will be diagnosed with a personality disorder and narcissism, but those would be irrelevant to me because he wasn’t failed in his life. He’s a sociopath. I know he already took a plea and all of that, but just giving an example.

What’s strange is Jose Baez went for the childhood abuse angle with Casey Anthony and it worked. I’d still like to hear from those jurors because as an outsider looking in, I never believed that’s for a second. She’s another sociopath. JMO.

Oh and you could look at Aileen and see she wasn’t “normal”. You could see it in her eyes, hear it when she spoke, and observe it in her body language. She wasn’t a sociopath- she was deeply, deeply damaged.

Aileen had a most tragic life, without a doubt. I used to think her life filled her with the most severe hate known to man & She wanted to spread her pain, hoping others could experience it.

CW—I don’t see any diagnosis coming for him. WI doesn’t care, he’s just another inmate. MOO

 

[Trudie]

Fredericka and Bob from years ago. She used to help the less fortunate at the holidays by providing them with food baskets, not sure if she still does or not. Like her or not, she is a generous and compassionate old soul. I seriously just find it hard to believe she is in this mess.

I think she’s involved in the aftermath, thanks to her son & his family.
She lived 3/4 of a century w/o issues.
I know some here want to blame her, I don’t. The 4 are adults. She had no control over them. Wonder if she even thought it best for JW to have custody of his daughter?
IMO, she did not realize how deep into this the 4 were until the searches began. I will never believe because she’s G3s mom she condoned or helped plot the murders. I do think
she particularly wants JW and his brother out of this.

Related—I notice on a lot of threads posters blame a parent of the suspect. A recent case (now closed) a poster said something like this “his mom probably wanted them dead, bet she told him to do it”, “his mom is a narc’ & is prob’ glad they’re dead”. On a missing person case I read posts implying the person was killed by her fiancé & his mom is assisting in his alibi. Yet, LE have not verified there’s an actual crime. I think stuff like this is pure nonsense.

 

[rsd1200]

I have tons of security on the computers used in my business. The IRS requires us to have the highest security software available on any computers used to store taxpayer information. I also have security cameras and other security measures to ensure my office is not broken into. All my online banking ect. is done on these computers. I never conduct banking or bill paying with my cell phone.

But I don't have a lot of security on the computer I use at home as I have no business or personal business information on it.

O/T The owner of the medical MJ dispensary called me today for advice on tax issues. I was caught off guard and almost laughed when he told me who he was because of our conversations on here. But I was able to stutter out the information he needed to know. I have got to start acting a little more professional about it. If I lose his business because I can't keep from laughing I am blaming you RSD. You are just a bad influence. LOL

I try never to do business on my phone unless I am at home and within my own little wifi world, and rarely then. My laptop is set up for that and I'm not a trusting soul. I have wifi app on my phone that will tell me if the wifi is encrypted, etc... if I'm at a place with free wifi.

BBM

ROFL! That's not the first time I've been told that! Grab that account Raisin, they'll be makin' bank soon!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think she’s involved in the aftermath, thanks to her son & his family.
She lived 3/4 of a century w/o issues.
I know some here want to blame her, I don’t. The 4 are adults. She had no control over them. Wonder if she even thought it best for JW to have custody of his daughter?
IMO, she did not realize how deep into this the 4 were until the searches began. I will never believe because she’s G3s mom she condoned or helped plot the murders. I do think
she particularly wants JW and his brother out of this.

Related—I notice on a lot of threads posters blame a parent of the suspect. A recent case (now closed) a poster said something like this “his mom probably wanted them dead, bet she told him to do it”, “his mom is a narc’ & is prob’ glad they’re dead”. On a missing person case I read posts implying the person was killed by her fiancé & his mom is assisting in his alibi. Yet, LE have not verified there’s an actual crime.

I mean this with all due respect, so please just take it at face value. FW’s civil records show that she did not live 3/4 of her life without any issues. Pair that with the mysterious barn fire, a child only having a 7th grade education, and the info found about her mastiffs when googling her name and it appears she had plenty of issues. The issues all just remained at a civil level and not criminal level the first 3/4 of her life. JMHO.

 

[rsd1200]

O/T He won't even allow Nyquil in his house because he thinks it contains alcohol. And he won't attend school football games because he claims second hand smoke from cigarettes causes him to choke. And gives him a headache. He really is anal. I just never realized how much. I think they gave me the wrong baby at the hospital when he was born. LOL

You're crackin' me up!

 

[Trudie]

I mean this with all due respect, so please just take it at face value. FW’s civil records show that she did not live 3/4 of her life without any issues. Pair that with the mysterious barn fire, a child only having a 7th grade education, and the info found about her mastiffs when googling her name and it appears she had plenty of issues. The issues all just remained at a civil level and not criminal level the first 3/4 of her life. JMHO.

I meant criminal, sorry. Civil issues are prevalent for the wealthy. People aren’t going to sue poor people.
None of us get outta life issue-less.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I meant criminal, sorry.
None of us get outta life issue-less.

Very true. We all have issues. I guess I just feel like there’s a difference in personal life issues one has versus issues inclusive of preying on others to make a quick dollar, whether it be as a “slumlord” or a sideways dog breeder.

 

[Dudly]

Just in case anyone wants to view the images again. The black veil (snood? like thing) still gives me a "cultish" feeling. Just so odd, IMO.
Google Maps: Report Inappropriate Image

Who is the man with the beard and cowboy hat?

 

[rsd1200]

HAS anyone local heard anything about an attempt on Charlie Readers life? Or do we have another rumor?

I have not heard that one. Reader may have a few more rough years ahead of him, even after the arrests.

 

[rsd1200]

Who is the man with the beard and cowboy hat?

A friend of the Ws, I believe. If not, he sure looks like the one I'm thinking of. I thought that photo was gone. I didn't see it last time.

 

[Trudie]

Very true. We all have issues. I guess I just feel like there’s a difference in personal life issues one has versus issues inclusive of preying on others to make a quick dollar, whether it be as a “slumlord” or a sideways dog breeder.

Idk. Every animal breeder I personally know deals with litigation frequently. Mostly, the animal turns out to be less than what the purchaser expected. I’m not talking about pigs, only dogs, cats & horses.
As far as the property deals, my take is dif’, I thought she was affording persons not able to secure a conventional loan the chance to own their home. Risky on her part because she entered into agreements knowing they are credit risks. It appears to me she had strong contractual agreements & she followed said agreement.

 

[Trudie]

A friend of the Ws, I believe. If not, he sure looks like the one I'm thinking of. I thought that photo was gone. I didn't see it last time.

In court, rsd?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

A friend of the Ws, I believe. If not, he sure looks like the one I'm thinking of. I thought that photo was gone. I didn't see it last time.

I can’t find that photo anymore to be able to link it. He was sitting inside the Peterson road home, wearing camo, posing with JW & GW4 IIRC.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Idk. Every animal breeder I personally know deals with litigation frequently. Mostly, the animal turns out to be less than what the purchaser expected. I’m not talking about pigs, only dogs, cats & horses.
As far as the property deals, my take is dif’, I thought she was affording persons not able to secure a conventional loan the chance to own their home. Risky on her part because she entered into agreements knowing they are credit risks. It appears to me she had strong contractual agreements & she followed said agreement.

I’ll have to re read the latest article on her and what previous tenants had to say. I don’t recall it being a very flattering portrayal of the Wagner matriarch. Her land contract agreements may have been legal, but my take from the media share is the contracts were unethical and perhaps casting a light on a wealthy woman preying on those just trying and struggling to own a piece of land and home.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Who is the man with the beard and cowboy hat?

His name is shown there on the bottom of the pics. IMO, he’s a local and is or was close with the W’s.