OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Trudie]

Or possibly opens an avenue of motivation for the individual W's to cooperate. I don't know how broad indictments are allowed to be, but if I were prosecution I would leave them as broad as possible. That way leaves an open door for possible cooperation or unexpected surprises at trial.
Thinking out loud, MOO

THIS! Yes, scare the crap,out of at least one! Then, there’s no trials.

 

[Puzzles8]

Sorry, in my post I accidentally made mistakes and had posted 2 times instead of just once. Yes, what was going on big time in the lives of the others? We do know there was that confrontation in April with BW and JW going to the R's over the custody. As they plotted the murders through 2016, they were also strong arming for custody. When the strong arming wasn't working, they knew they were going to their plan B.

That is when I think they realized that they should not have shown everyone that they had an obvious motive to want to eliminate HR, and that they need to get rid of that motive at all costs. I'm guessing the forged document was to clear them of having a motive for murder. I think the document was forged to look like HR had signed over a significant amount of custody to JW so of course he would have no motive now for wanting her out of the way.

Get rid of the motive at all costs even if it means roping AW's mother into it. I believe she was familiar with being a notary. If the murders were only for custody then they probably would have waited and made it look like JW was very happy with the way the custody was going. They were in a hurry. But WHY?

Though I have heard the same about an alleged confrontation between 3 & CR1, I'm not sure that can be sourced to MSM. Hopefully there was a police report filed. I'm not sure how to search for it.

 

[Myland]

No, I've exhausted every possible idea/source I can think of.

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/home.page.2

 

[Dudly]

Will the state need to prove all four at each scene? Not matching with shots fired but at least at scene. Jmo

At the scene possibly but not necessarily in the scenes. A look out or get away driver can be charged with murder for having participated in the crime that caused people to be murdered.

 

[Trudie]

If LE and BCI were "tapping phones" and collecting e-mails and text messages, the Ws may have incriminated themselves...

If they are guilty, I don’t see them gathered around having convo like:

JW: hey mom, how many times did your shoot ______?

AW: uhm, 3; but I shot ________4, what abt you G4?

But, there’s a possibility one of the four confided everything to someone he trusts.

 

[Trudie]

At the scene possibly but not necessarily in the scenes. A look out or get away driver can be charged with murder for having participated in the crime that caused people to be murdered.

Caressing the pit bulls!!

 

[Dudly]

I do think there was an urgency about these murders because they didn't leave enough time for JW to pretend he was really happy with the custody arrangement. Instead, they rushed it! They did it right after making a scene over wanting HR to sign over full custody. Stupid.


There is a missing puzzle piece here we are not seeing.

As for Kenny. I always thought Kenny was hit to throw off the investigation and make it look Cartel or professional or gang or drug related. Especially like a drug deal gone bad.

According to DeWine they did much to hinder the investigation and that means there was tampering at the crime scenes. Kenny was the only one shot once, that stands out and screams professional hit. Kenny had lots of paper money thrown over his lower legs which totally screams that "your being killed over being greedy and stealing our money. " Drug deal gone bad. Maybe they used Kenny's own money.

And Kenny had a grow op at his place, even confirmed by his daughter and LE. How convenient that there were grow ops at 3 of the homes!
EVEN IF the motive was not just for custody, I think Kenny is the red herring in all this. And he was SO close to Chris, that he would be the type to go after the Wagners for revenge I think. I think they may have been scared that he would blow their brains out to avenge Chris.

BBM
There isn't much knowledge as to what all did take place over custody. Was there a big scene? Where did it happen? Were attorneys involved? They seemed to have had a verbal agreement. Is that not correct? What changed to cause a big scene...

 

[Puzzles8]

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/home.page.2

Myland, you da bomb! I found it. Any thoughts on how to get to the details of these motions!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I do think there was an urgency about these murders because they didn't leave enough time for JW to pretend he was really happy with the custody arrangement. Instead, they rushed it! They did it right after making a scene over wanting HR to sign over full custody. Stupid.


There is a missing puzzle piece here we are not seeing.

As for Kenny. I always thought Kenny was hit to throw off the investigation and make it look Cartel or professional or gang or drug related. Especially like a drug deal gone bad.

According to DeWine they did much to hinder the investigation and that means there was tampering at the crime scenes. Kenny was the only one shot once, that stands out and screams professional hit. Kenny had lots of paper money thrown over his lower legs which totally screams that "your being killed over being greedy and stealing our money. " Drug deal gone bad. Maybe they used Kenny's own money.

And Kenny had a grow op at his place, even confirmed by his daughter and LE. How convenient that there were grow ops at 3 of the homes!
EVEN IF the motive was not just for custody, I think Kenny is the red herring in all this. And he was SO close to Chris, that he would be the type to go after the Wagners for revenge I think. I think they may have been scared that he would blow their brains out to avenge Chris.

BBM
I think Kenny is the red herring in all this.

So you are saying that Kenny was just incidental? No real motive to kill him?

Kenny is important. There is a reason they traveled over ten miles to kill that last person. The other three houses were all in a line on the same road within one mile of each other. They went out of their way to travel to Kenny's house to kill him. It means something. What, I don't know yet, although I have some theories. But if it was just to make it look like a cartel hit, there are a lot more R's a lot closer that were into a lot harder drug dealing than Kenny selling MJ. If it was because they thought Kenny might retaliate, again there are a lot more R's a lot meaner and into a lot more trouble than Kenny who live a lot closer to the crime scenes than Kenny did.

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

THIS! Yes, scare the crap,out of at least one! Then, there’s no trials.

Something like, well, I killed 7, but I certainly didn't kill 8......
Totally speculation and conjecture on my part.
JMO

 

[bowler]

It appears little or no physical evidence. If they had that, arrests would have been much sooner, IMO.
I think Ohio can bring charges with little evidence as long as they can get an indictment. After a lengthy investigation, interviewing countless people, IMO, the same name kept popping up. W!
The investigators are still scouring notes & stuff, digging for more info, IMO.
Maybe, just maybe, DeWine thought they might move again & wanted to bring ‘em in.
Upcharge upcharge upcharge. Hope something sticks. IMO
The indictments make it clear (to me) they can’t match a suspect with a victim.

I would say blood evidence.

JMO

Maybe audio/video that they missed during and after murders.
Wonder about W's Timeline on day of murders?
Also wouldn't a coordinated effort, as in A did such and such opening the path for B to do and then C to follow and D did their part of the deed. Without the work of all 4 they would not have been successful, so the hand of one is the hand of all.

 

[Puzzles8]

THIS! Yes, scare the crap,out of at least one! Then, there’s no trials.

I still think there will be trials.

 

[Myland]

BBM
I think Kenny is the red herring in all this.

So you are saying that Kenny was just incidental? No real motive to kill him?

Kenny is important. There is a reason they traveled over ten miles to kill that last person. The other three houses were all in a line on the same road within one mile of each other. They went out of their way to travel to Kenny's house to kill him. It means something. What, I don't know yet, although I have some theories. But if it was just to make it look like a cartel hit, there are a lot more R's a lot closer that were into a lot harder drug dealing than Kenny selling MJ. If it was because they thought Kenny might retaliate, again there are a lot more R's a lot meaner and into a lot more trouble than Kenny who live a lot closer to the crime scenes than Kenny did.

JMO

Plus the road to Kenny’s house is a very rough road no matter how you enter or leave. It is not a road you could have flew down, but it is not far from flying w. Jmo

 

[Betty P]

I have wondered if the Wagners and the Rhodens could have gone into some sort
of business arrangement selling cars. In an article from not long after the murders the amount of cars on the property was discussed. “Why the Rhoden Family Had So Many Cars”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/84433962

If so, possibly the perception that they were being cut out of profits or some other bad feelings could have developed.

That's a good possibility. The day of the arrests, a reporter interviewed a neighbor of Flying W Farms who said GW3 often came to him over the years offering trades or selling parts - cars, trucks, equipment, etc. The neighbor said GW3 had come by recently, after their move home from AK, with parts to sell, but he didn't buy any. No idea where he got them, but he may have been dealing parts and vehicles with CR1 in the past.

Maybe CR1 stopped doing business with GW3 when the custody battle began. Maybe CR1 threatened to tell LE that GW4 was dealing in stolen property or something similar. Maybe GW3 was swapping parts, etc. for MJ to sell. There are quite a few possibilities. JMO it's important to keep in mind the indictments indicate the W's began planning and preparing for the murders several months before they killed the Rhoden/Gilleys. JMO, that points more to the custody battle as the main motive.

 

[Betty P]

I don’t think so, I was researching something similar last night.
Jmo, of course.
Once I finish researching, I’ll submit my findings to Rsd so she can safely archive stuff. Lol. She’s gonna need a staff.

Please don't forget our Media & Timelines thread here at WS. You can post research results there, too. Thanks in advance!

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

 

[Myland]

Does anyone think Chris was suspicious of the W doing something maybe not murder, but causing some sort of actual harm? Jmo

 

[Trudie]

Please don't forget our Media & Timelines thread here at WS. You can post research results there, too. Thanks in advance!

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

Oh, tysm, Betty.
I’m researching different things....
At this point, what I have prepared to post, I need to run by a mod.

(I think “planning” is key to the charges.)

 

[Betty P]

Will the state need to prove all four at each scene? Not matching with shots fired but at least at scene. Jmo

Keep in mind, they can be convicted of murder even if they didn't pull the trigger. The state has to prove they were involved in the planning and commission of all the murders. They probably have the evidence they need to connect each of the accused to the crime scenes or they wouldn't have brought the charges. DeWine is conservative, he's not a maverick or risk-taker. He wouldn't have approved the arrests and filing of charges if he didn't think his team could win convictions.

The AG and PCSO have held the cards of this case very close to the vest over the last couple of years. Just because we haven't seen the evidence doesn't mean they don't have any.

 

[Trudie]

I still think there will be trials.

In like 5 years?

If you check national statistics, very low percentage of DP cases go to trial.

Idk. Big risk for the age group of the 4, imo.

 

[Trudie]

Keep in mind, they can be convicted of murder even if they didn't pull the trigger. The state has to prove they were involved in the planning and commission of all the murders. They probably have the evidence they need to connect each of the accused to the crime scenes or they wouldn't have brought the charges. DeWine is conservative, he's not a maverick or risk-taker. He wouldn't have approved the arrests and filing of charges if he didn't think his team could win convictions.

The AG and PCSO have held the cards of this case very close to the vest over the last couple of years. Just because we haven't seen the evidence doesn't mean they don't have any.

We know only what they want us to know. Basically, nothing. Lol