OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have wondered if the Wagners and the Rhodens could have gone into some sort
of business arrangement selling cars. In an article from not long after the murders the amount of cars on the property was discussed. “Why the Rhoden Family Had So Many Cars”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/84433962

If so, possibly the perception that they were being cut out of profits or some other bad feelings could have developed.
 
I have wondered if the Wagners and the Rhodens could have gone into some sort
of business arrangement selling cars. In an article from not long after the murders the amount of cars on the property was discussed. “Why the Rhoden Family Had So Many Cars”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/84433962

If so, possibly the perception that they were being cut out of profits or some other bad feelings could have developed.
The selling cars related to RW, the Bbl owner. At least that was who Dr was selling for. Jmo
 
Agree. They may have been in business together. There could have been a falling out, (custody and/or fronted money come to mind), and if that was the case, and the business dissolved, it may have left the Ws without an income. They lived pretty large, and I don't see FW funding their every want and desire. If threats couldn't work, b/c the Rs had as much info on the Ws, as the Ws had on the Rs, then the plan may have began to firm up, from mere talk, to buying supplies, at Walmart. Killing them became an option at that point. That way, they can never out what they have on the Ws, plus, they get S. I think they came to both hate the Rs, and were afraid of them.

Or Billy and Kenny may have been in business together and someone was double crossed. Chris would have known.

JMO
 
Don’t worry about it. But, you hit the blue edit tab, then edit away. Before time expires. We don’t worry abt punctuation, spelling, etc. everyone makes mistakes.

However, IQ always has impeccably composed posts, shaming the rest of us, IMO.
Don’t worry about it. But, you hit the blue edit tab, then edit away. Before time expires. We don’t worry abt punctuation, spelling, etc. everyone makes mistakes.

However, IQ always has impeccably composed posts, shaming the rest of us, IMO.
LOL.....!!!.....Thank You so much. I guess I'll stop being embarrassed now!
 
Sorry, in my post I accidentally made mistakes and had posted 2 times instead of just once. Yes, what was going on big time in the lives of the others? We do know there was that confrontation in April with BW and JW going to the R's over the custody. As they plotted the murders through 2016, they were also strong arming for custody. When the strong arming wasn't working, they knew they were going to their plan B.

That is when I think they realized that they should not have shown everyone that they had an obvious motive to want to eliminate HR, and that they need to get rid of that motive at all costs. I'm guessing the forged document was to clear them of having a motive for murder. I think the document was forged to look like HR had signed over a significant amount of custody to JW so of course he would have no motive now for wanting her out of the way.

Get rid of the motive at all costs even if it means roping AW's mother into it. I believe she was familiar with being a notary.

But then there is Kenny. How does he figure into it all?

JMO
 
There’s not often an answer that makes sense to the why’s of why someone or a group of people kill for custody. The motive for most murders lacks logic. Why did Josh Powell murder his two children and set the house on fire with him and the two kids inside, after his wife had mysteriously went missing years prior and has never been found? Why did Chris Watts murder his wife, unborn child and two daughters? There are examples and cases world wide of murders that surround child custody and domestic problems. IMO, the Rhodens appears differently to most because of the number of victims and crime scenes. This situation doesn’t fit the “norm” in these types of murders. I truly feel at the end of the day, this case is no different than others with similar motives. It is probably more bizarre because it’s like modern day Hatfields and McCoys.

Would we think differently if all 8 victims had been found murdered in the same home? Would it be easier to accept custody as a motive, because then it would be easier to understand and make sense in our own minds? Hypothetically, put all 8 victims living in one home together. If someone goes into a home to kill someone over custody of a child, are they only going to kill that one person OR are they going to kill everyone in the home who has knowledge of what’s been transpiring?

These are just some thoughts and I’m in no way knocking anyone else’s opinions. There’s just never much sense to be made of cold blooded murder. Crimes of passion can sometimes be understood. People who murder after being abused repeatedly are sometimes easy to understand (example-The Burning Bed) however when you have a heinous crime where 8 people are murdered- 4 of them being adolescents, very young adults, and a child, with two infants left alive next to their dead parents corpses, there’s just no rationalizing why this happened. Nothing will ever make sense because it’s truly unthinkable evil.

We are logical people here trying to understand completely illogical acts and events. We need to be able to fully understand the minds of Billy, Angela, Jake, and George and I’m not sure that’s possible. JMHO. What makes the Wagners be who they are? What made them think they could get away with this? And what God do they worship that made them confident their actions were justified? What happens in the minds of people who can inflict complete carnage and go to sleep day after day, look themselves in the mirror, and go about living life after massacring an entire family? There’s so many questions and so few answers. JMHO.

Yet, I have spent 2 1/2 years of my life, on this board, trying to figure out the whys of this, and here I sit, again, today. One of the reasons I'm here is to figure out the why. I like delving into the mind, though.
 
Yet, I have spent 2 1/2 years of my life, on this board, trying to figure out the whys of this, and here I sit, again, today. One of the reasons I'm here is to figure out the why. I like delving into the mind, though.

Lol. Me too. This is such a complicated crime but Junk says he could tell us things that would clear it all up in about five seconds. Maybe he will tell us during one of the trials.

JMO
 
I wonder what evidence the state has to place all defendants at all four scenes. Jmo

It appears little or no physical evidence. If they had that, arrests would have been much sooner, IMO.
I think Ohio can bring charges with little evidence as long as they can get an indictment. After a lengthy investigation, interviewing countless people, IMO, the same name kept popping up. W!
The investigators are still scouring notes & stuff, digging for more info, IMO.
Maybe, just maybe, DeWine thought they might move again & wanted to bring ‘em in.
Upcharge upcharge upcharge. Hope something sticks. IMO
The indictments make it clear (to me) they can’t match a suspect with a victim.
 
Pondering on this a bit more before take the plunge. Here's a definition that states that the item can be a "thing" too;

Under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act, an unlawful debt is defined as “a debt that is (A) unenforceable under state or federal law in whole or in part as to the principal or interest because of the laws relating to usury, and (B) which was incurred in connection with the business of lending money or a thing of value at a rate usurious under state or federal law, where the usurious rate is at least twice the enforceable rate.” Proctor v. Metro. Money Store Corp, 645 F. Supp. 2d 464 (D. Md. 2009)

Unlawful Debt Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Unlawful Debt/Racketeering
18 U.S. Code § 1962 - Prohibited activities
Could "thing" be an intangible thing like reputation?
 
DEWine said it played a part. It was a factor. It’s an easy conclusion that there were other motives.

I think the acrimony simmered for years. The Waggies played the part of being friendly well. Then after SW was born and post breakup all of what was bothering the Waggies about the Rhodens began to boil.

One Waggie or maybe two had been thinking about retributiontion for a long time. Before 2016, long before. It was carefully shared, maybe at first as a joke, to get rid of maybe Hanna. The joke soon turned into “I wish they all would die”, after they realized that if Hanna was dead, Dana or CRSR would step in and get custody.

Somewhere about the time the custody talks got serious along with the dream of moving to Alaska, Hanna dug in. She would never give her daughter up onlyvto have her 4,500 miles away.

Dana was the first to support her choice, and the rest of the family lined up behind her.

Fist Fights started and 16 yo CRJR was a fiesty 16 yo who didn’t take _____ from anybody. Especially when it involved Sister Hanna and SW. CRJR was usually bloodied up, but among the ones left standing.

ONE of the insults AW threw out during an argument was the filthy living conditions in the ramshackle trailers the Rhodens called home. Eventually And somewhere in the midst of Dana and CRSR falling in love again and the less than pristine living conditions the Waggies kept bring up, CRSR bought Dana the trailer she moved into. Life was good. And no one could accuse them of being poor trailer trash ever again.

AW WAS THE FIRST to hear of the new home as Dana thanked friends for helping paint and decorate while CRSR spent his extra time remodeling.

AW was livid. On the way from her job at the farm, she looked at the speedometer. She had her Excursion going 3200 RPMS just over 100 mph. She took her foot off the gas and hit the brakes hard. It’s a smart thing she did as over the next set of hills was Readers car coming at her. By the time she stopped sweating she was turning into the driveway, her shirt soaked from the near miss of a conversation with the sheriff. She couldn’t have faked calm that day, she could feel her heart beat, and flashes of red in her eyes. Be Cool Angela, be cool.

As she fixed supper for her boys that night she obsessively though about how much she wanted a little girl.

At 45 she was too old even though movie stars were still getting pregnant at her age. She just read all about it in the National Enquirer. Stallone’s ex wife, the blonde giant told the story of every thing she tried to have a baby with her much younger . Finally having a baby at 50.

IVF AND DOCTORS cost money they didn’t have, and even more if you wanted the magical medical miracle if you opted to choose the sex of your baby. Angela snapped back to reality, she didn’t have to deal with any of that. There was already a little girl in her life, SW. the family had to just come up with an extremely well thought out plan to get custody of her.

Every advantage the Waggies thought they had if they went to court to get SW was fixed at lightening speed by the Rhodens. The odds were in Hanna’s favor of winning when they sat down at their dining room table and the thoughts of something happening to the Rhodens wasn’t funny any more.

The custody issue alone was enough, but there were bad feelings relating to a couple of deals the Waggies were 90% sure they were paid less than they expected. A LOT LESS.

That afternoon the Waggies put ideas on the table. Within a couple of weeks had a loosely framed plan to drag in drugs and the grows it soon turned to the plan it became. AW carefully place any paper they used in a shoebox in the old desk she had gotten at a garage sale.

She soon realized the plan was much to big for one person. The Waggies would have to break it up with eAch taking a piece. Until then
The shoebox came out every time the plan was discussed along with the pens they used to write with. One of the boys suggested they put it on a thumb drive to make it easier to move parts of the plan around and to modify it as necessary.

The week before she had gone into the storage barn at the farm rummaged around in the dirt, dust and cobwebs and found her Air Force Training Manuals. She spent her free time over the next few days rereading all she had learned about strategic planning and organizational skills for specialized field ops. She remembered it all.

George4 and Jake spent 2 days entering the constantly altering plan. Neither were skilled typists and both used the single fingered hunt and peck method.

Finally late one afternoon they declared it all on the thumb drive and every paper they had written on was walked out to the burn barrel soaked with gas burned and stirred to ashes. No one would get their hand on that or ever be able to read it. The thumb drive was put in the shoebox in the back of the bottom drawer of the old desk AW bought at a garage sale.
The Waggies still used paper until the boys transferred it all to the thumb drive then the paper went straight to the burn barrel soaked with gas and forever destroyed.


ALL MY OPINION GUESS and fiction AS TO HOW THIS BEGAN. MOTIVES?

SW

money/drugs debts

Jealousy


My intent was to tie in what we know with possiblevexplanations of what we do not know. Ie computers possible motives. Why the obsession with SW.

WHY I BELIEVE ANGELA had to be the brains. And I agree without identifying specifically drugs it could have been cars. Deliveries or anything associated with a debt of $$ owed to one or the other.
 
Could "thing" be an intangible thing like reputation?

I don’t think so, I was researching something similar last night.
Jmo, of course.
Once I finish researching, I’ll submit my findings to Rsd so she can safely archive stuff. Lol. She’s gonna need a staff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
79
Guests online
1,633
Total visitors
1,712

Forum statistics

Threads
606,042
Messages
18,197,354
Members
233,715
Latest member
Ljenkins18
Back
Top