OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

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Loomis124 said:
I have been studying this charge. When we try to decipher what, in these paragraphs, would make sense in connection with the Rhodens and Wagners, the phrases "collection of a unlawful debt," and "real property" stick out to me.


What is an unlawful debt? What is every possible meaning, and does any of them fit here?

This is JMO, but there IS proof CHSR had a safe (invoice for Sheriff's Office) and robbery has been discussed since day one. And each of the suspects are charged with aggravated burglary.

Research "real property" and what it does and doesn't mean. Who is the second largest land -- real property -- owner there? Evictions, court hearings galore, dismissed cases, crooked judges (remember WT Marshall) and family judges. Oh, and don't forget all real estate transactions, shady non-profits, divorces, and custody battles all require a notary constantly. All MOO.

One last thought. All property removed from the scenes was "personal property."

I would greatly appreciate all your thoughts on this charge, in terms of what it is and how it might apply to the suspects named.

Thank you so much!
Click to expand...

There are 2 ways to look at the collecting of unlawful debt.
1.) You are being charged an illegal amount of interest, like borrowing from a "loan shark" or a bad lender.

2.) The money you owe is from an illegal activity such as gambling. Someone is trying to collect a illegal gambling debt from you.

REAL PROPERTY IS DIFFERENT FROM PERSONAL PROPERTY:

In English common law, real property, real estate, realty, or immovable property is land which is the property of some person and all structures (also called improvements or fixtures) integrated with or affixed to the land, including crops, buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals, and roads, among other things.

The term personal property was, and continues to be, all property that is not real property.You can have a real property dispute (the house) or a personal property dispute (contents in the house.)

The burglaries from the Rhoden homes such as cell phones and security systems are personal property.
 
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Cool Cats said:
There are 2 ways to look at the collecting of unlawful debt.
1.) You are being charged an illegal amount of interest, like borrowing from a "loan shark" or a bad lender.

2.) The money you owe is from an illegal activity such as gambling. Someone is trying to collect a illegal gambling debt from you.

REAL PROPERTY IS DIFFERENT FROM PERSONAL PROPERTY:

In English common law, real property, real estate, realty, or immovable property is land which is the property of some person and all structures (also called improvements or fixtures) integrated with or affixed to the land, including crops, buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals, and roads, among other things.

The term personal property was, and continues to be, all property that is not real property.You can have a real property dispute (the house) or a personal property dispute (contents in the house.)

The burglaries from the Rhoden homes such as cell phones and security systems are personal property.
Click to expand...

TY, Cool Cats! Debt could be over drugs, too.
 
Cool Cats said:
Right! Definitely the unlawful debt could be the Wagners trying to collect on a perceived drug debt. We need to trust DeWine is correct when he said an "undercurrent of drugs".

Drugs being unlawful = the collecting of an unlawful debt.
Click to expand...
One most likely owed the other some money but it could be the w’s That owed the r’s
 
Cool Cats said:
There are 2 ways to look at the collecting of unlawful debt.
1.) You are being charged an illegal amount of interest, like borrowing from a "loan shark" or a bad lender.

2.) The money you owe is from an illegal activity such as gambling. Someone is trying to collect a illegal gambling debt from you.

REAL PROPERTY IS DIFFERENT FROM PERSONAL PROPERTY:

In English common law, real property, real estate, realty, or immovable property is land which is the property of some person and all structures (also called improvements or fixtures) integrated with or affixed to the land, including crops, buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals, and roads, among other things.

The term personal property was, and continues to be, all property that is not real property.You can have a real property dispute (the house) or a personal property dispute (contents in the house.)

The burglaries from the Rhoden homes such as cell phones and security systems are personal property.
Click to expand...
I've learned a lot about legal codes and charges. I researched if you could pick and choose the language used in the indictment code from the specific codes or whether you need to use the exact language of the cited code. Turns out you need to use the "exact" wording of the particular code.
The code used in the Wagner's indictments include an "or". Either collection of an unlawful debt OR a pattern of corrupt activity.
Pattern of corrupt activity:
Lawriter - ORC - 2923.31 Corrupt activity definitions.
I need to research this more. May not even refer to an illegal debt. Again, I need to look into this, I might be completely wrong.
I'll try to clarify tomorrow.
 
Cool Cats said:
There are 2 ways to look at the collecting of unlawful debt.
1.) You are being charged an illegal amount of interest, like borrowing from a "loan shark" or a bad lender.

2.) The money you owe is from an illegal activity such as gambling. Someone is trying to collect a illegal gambling debt from you.

REAL PROPERTY IS DIFFERENT FROM PERSONAL PROPERTY:

In English common law, real property, real estate, realty, or immovable property is land which is the property of some person and all structures (also called improvements or fixtures) integrated with or affixed to the land, including crops, buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals, and roads, among other things.

The term personal property was, and continues to be, all property that is not real property.You can have a real property dispute (the house) or a personal property dispute (contents in the house.)

The burglaries from the Rhoden homes such as cell phones and security systems are personal property.
Click to expand...


Until a few years ago, every person that owned a business or had business assets had to file, list and
pay a Personal Property Tax to each county where the business was located. Ohio repealed the
tax. Usually it was business, farming or like assets. Land can never be depreciated, but any improvement
can be depreciated. In this case, probably something was stolen and perhaps located. It could be as
simple as using a vehicle owned by the Rhodens to go from house to house.
 
Puzzles8 said:
I've learned a lot about legal codes and charges. I researched if you could pick and choose the language used in the indictment code from the specific codes or whether you need to use the exact language of the cited code. Turns out you need to use the "exact" wording of the particular code.
The code used in the Wagner's indictments include an "or". Either collection of an unlawful debt OR a pattern of corrupt activity.
Pattern of corrupt activity:
Lawriter - ORC - 2923.31 Corrupt activity definitions.
I need to research this more. May not even refer to an illegal debt. Again, I need to look into this, I might be completely wrong.
I'll try to clarify tomorrow.
Click to expand...


Cyber crimes are included as corrupt activities.
 
Puzzles8 said:
I've learned a lot about legal codes and charges. I researched if you could pick and choose the language used in the indictment code from the specific codes or whether you need to use the exact language of the cited code. Turns out you need to use the "exact" wording of the particular code.
The code used in the Wagner's indictments include an "or". Either collection of an unlawful debt OR a pattern of corrupt activity.
Pattern of corrupt activity:
Lawriter - ORC - 2923.31 Corrupt activity definitions.
I need to research this more. May not even refer to an illegal debt. Again, I need to look into this, I might be completely wrong.
I'll try to clarify tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Here is the entire count #22 that specifically mentions Rita and Fredericka. It also mentions ---what you said in your post---the Wagners participated in a pattern of Corrupt Activity OR the Collection of an Unlawful Debt.
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/8ws31ynk746na3a9/images/12-09d55d3c30.jpg
 
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Cool Cats said:
Yes! That is where I saw that they have evidence from BBL. Wonder if there is any way for the public to access it? Reporters have it---but it is too much to print--- so they only do partial lists.
Click to expand...

News media files FOIA requests, I think. Anyone could do it, I suppose.

ETA: I would love to hear their response: "Look, it's those pesky people over at Websleuths asking for copies of the docs in the Rhoden case. What will they be up to next?"
 
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Puzzles8 said:
I've learned a lot about legal codes and charges. I researched if you could pick and choose the language used in the indictment code from the specific codes or whether you need to use the exact language of the cited code. Turns out you need to use the "exact" wording of the particular code.
The code used in the Wagner's indictments include an "or". Either collection of an unlawful debt OR a pattern of corrupt activity.
Pattern of corrupt activity:
Lawriter - ORC - 2923.31 Corrupt activity definitions.
I need to research this more. May not even refer to an illegal debt. Again, I need to look into this, I might be completely wrong.
I'll try to clarify tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Now that I look at it closer, I believe this charge is referring to what was done since Jan 2016 to plan and help in the murders..thus FW and RN. JMO. Still trying to wade through this crap. As DeWine said, "Bizarre!"
 
Cool Cats said:
WAGNER INDICTMENTS TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE ---- 3 SEPARATE COUNTS

I think it is interesting that instead of them all being on one Count, the Tampering With Evidence is on 3 separate Counts. Interesting to see the differences between them.

COUNTS #15 AND #16
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/h4d30sw3k6ncl14/images/10-c53fa36f69.jpg

COUNT #17
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/h4d30sw3k6ncl14/images/24-bc8a2dbf58.jpg
Click to expand...



Could it just be that prosecutors are covering all bases? If one count is dismissed, they still
have the remaining counts.
 
Cool Cats said:
WAGNER INDICTMENTS TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE ---- 3 SEPARATE COUNTS

I think it is interesting that instead of them all being on one Count, the Tampering With Evidence is on 3 separate Counts. Interesting to see the differences between them.

COUNTS #15 AND #16
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/h4d30sw3k6ncl14/images/10-c53fa36f69.jpg

COUNT #17
https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/h4d30sw3k6ncl14/images/24-bc8a2dbf58.jpg
Click to expand...

Yes, they're specific to the type of tampering done: silencer, custody docs, phones & cameras, etc.


Per earlier discussion, note that Count 22, Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity, has weapons specifications linked to the charge. The corrupt activity they engaged in involved illegal use of firearms, silencer, etc. Count 22 probably covers the overall planning and execution of the murders.
 
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