OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#45

[Cool Cats]

I think HR had full legal custody. She allowed JW to have SW every other week and probably at other times.

The distinction is that JW did not have legal custody at all.

Unwed mothers have full legal custody of the child even when the father is named on the birth certificate (under Ohio law). He could have filed for shared custody but he didn't. jmo

I think he didn't do it the legal way because of his having had sex with a under aged girl. There's just no other reason for him not going through legal channels.

Her marrying him would have solved his problems.

 

[Dudly]

The receipts are fake. If they were real the case could be dismissed. So now it will be up to the Jury to make the determination. If they decide the receipts are real and the vests were bought after the murders and Fred was only confused, not lying, she will be aquitted. But if the Jury believes she forged the receipts then she will be found guilty.

Just my opinion.....

She would only be off on one charge, maybe. If she did not buy the vests as she claims, she still has problems. She still discussed GJ testimony with her family before she did with the newspaper, also.

 

[Dudly]

Forgery again? Keep in mind, we're still not sure what the perjury pertains to, whether its about when the BPVs were purchased, which ones or how many were purchased or who purchased them.

We'll find out in July.

Reminder: Jake Wagner's pre-trial hearing is this week, on Thursday, April 4 1:30 pm

Maybe about 2:30 and a few minutes this time?

 

[Betty P]

I felt she indicated they have not authenticated them.

At 28:32 she says attaching them as an exhibit does not make them authenticated

At 31:55 we are talking about the vests, he is talking about the ceramic plates

At 31:13 attach unauthenticated stuff that they represent means one thing when we certainly dispute that

At 33:320 we do not stipulate to the authenticity of anything that he attached to his motion other than the grand jury transcript

I feel it's yet to be determined "officially" if they are authentic receipts. Just an interpretation on how I took it. JMO

My personal opinion is where are the ones printed before she testified at grand jury??

We don't always agree and that's ok. We'll discover what really happened during FW's trial in July.

 

[Betty P]

Maybe about 2:30 and a few minutes this time?

Most likely. There will probably be some long meetings in the judge's chambers beforehand.

 

[Cool Cats]

We don't always agree and that's ok. We'll discover what really happened during FW's trial in July.

Right. Either they are forged, or they were not yet authenticated by the prosecution. I lean towards forged but yes, we will find out in court.

 

[Betty P]

Right. Either they are forged, or they were not yet authenticated by the prosecution. I lean towards forged but yes, we will find out in court.

Also considering it took AW over a year to find them.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Right. Either they are forged, or they were not yet authenticated by the prosecution. I lean towards forged but yes, we will find out in court.

Or both.. the state may not have had time to determine if they were forged meaning they could be. It just hadn't been proven by the time she was in court.
In short, yes we will find out during trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

Also considering it took AW over a year to find them.

You mean FW. She said she had the receipts in July 2018 But did not produce them until March of 2019.

 

[IType]

Newcomb Discovery

Why would they need to forge a declaration of guardianship for Sophia? Jake was her dad and shared custody. Plain and simple.

I am not sure that honest to goodness, legally documented, court approved joint custody of SW was ever established. It has been established that HMR and JW had a visitation system which was referred to as "joint custody", but IMO there was nothing on file with the court truly establishing joint custody in the eyes of the law.

IMO, the key phrase here in the title of all three alleged forged documents is "in the event of my death". IMO, they knew HMR would be killed. So they forged papers to be 100% sure custody of SW would automatically go to Jake at the time of HMRs death. However, also IMO, they forged papers to give AW custody of SW and GR4's son if JW or GW4 were killed or incapacitated in the process of committing the murders. ** IMO, they were covering all their bases to make sure the W4 as a family got everything they wanted in the end, no matter what the cost.

**ETA: IMO, this also would explain why there is no alleged forged papers for GW4's ex-wife. They are only listed for HMR, JW and GW4. GW had full custody, established in court. Therefore, he had the right to name anyone he wanted to take is son if he died. Since there was no formal custody agreement on file with the court, HMR truly had sole custody of SW. So they had to have papers passing SW to JW in the event of HMR's death, and then a second set of papers passing SW to AW in the event of his death. (ETA a second time, correcting AW's initials.)

 

[Cool Cats]

I am not sure that honest to goodness, legally documented, court approved joint custody of SW was ever established. It has been established that HMR and JW had a visitation system which was referred to as "joint custody", but IMO there was nothing on file with the court truly establishing joint custody in the eyes of the law.

IMO, the key phrase here in the title of all three alleged forged documents is "in the event of my death". IMO, they knew HMR would be killed. So they forged papers to be 100% sure custody of SW would automatically go to Jake at the time of HMRs death. However, also IMO, they forged papers to give AW custody of SW and GR4's son if JW or GW4 were killed or incapacitated in the process of committing the murders. IMO, they were covering all their bases to make sure the W4 as a family got everything they wanted in the end, no matter what the cost.

Yes nothing was legal. I want to know when were the custody documents forged and how did the prosecution get a hold of them.

Why would you forge papers in the event a 19 year old dies? How stupid do they have to be to do that? That alone shows the Jury a motive, and the Jury will have to have a motive to convict on such a serious case.

 

[Deleted member 237253]

JMO, because they planned to kill Hanna Rhoden and didn't want an expensive legal battle to gain full custody. That's what ended up happening with Jake giving an interview, his Go Fund Me campaign to help with legal costs, etc. Apparently, they decided not to risk presenting the forged guardianship papers.

^This x2^

 

[OhioBlues]

Yes nothing was legal. I want to know when were the custody documents forged and how did the prosecution get a hold of them.

Why would you forge papers in the event a 19 year old dies? How stupid do they have to be to do that? That alone shows the Jury a motive, and the Jury will have to have a motive to convict on such a serious case.

Doesn't the indictment say they were forged on or around April 6?

Fortunately, we should learn these answers in July during RN trial.

 

[Deleted member 237253]

I also wonder what AC is referring to when she says the receipts for the purchase of the BPV were not "authentic". Were they faked? Were they actually receipts for purchase of something else?

I cant answer but a quick google search privides us with

Can You Spot Fraudulent Receipts? | AppZen

 

[Cool Cats]

Doesn't the indictment say they were forged on or around April 6?

Fortunately, we should learn these answers in July during RN trial.

Does anyone have Fred and Rita's indictments? I'd like to look up that date but can't find the indictments.

 

[OhioBlues]

Does anyone have Fred and Rita's indictments? I'd like to look up that date but can't find the indictments.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...-Prosecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments

 

[rsd1200]

I cant answer but a quick google search privides us with

Can You Spot Fraudulent Receipts? | AppZen

I was able to choose which recpt was fraudulent .

On another note; My life; Receipt? What's that? Where did I put that? Tears house apart in frantic, futile, search. Hence, my reason for being as electronic as possible.

I bought a fairly pricey gaming laptop. All it says on my Pay account is how much I paid, what the item was, and since I bought it from Ebay, it says I bought it from, for example; Paul at PaulIsPurple (seriously), and a transaction I.D. I'd never done business with the dude before, just took a shot on the laptop b/c it was awesome (it was worth the shot!). My bank would show the same amount pulled from my account at that time, so there's that to back it up, I'd guess.

Now, if it were my better half, they would still have the original box in which it was shipped, with all the stickers intact, the shipping recpt., and would probably know pretty close to what the cost was... It can almost be annoying at times, but I just can't be bothered with all of that.

My advice to FW and her Atty., would be, if the receipt doesn't pass muster, then it might be time to hire someone who is computer savvy to pull those two records, satisfactorily, if in fact they want to share them with the prosecutor.

 

[Loomis124]

Yes that's what she said:

"......Owen asked for the dismissal of the case saying his client had been charged with a crime that was not committed. “We want the court to take a fresh look,” Owen said. “It’s a matter of law.”

Canepa responded by saying the documentation that was given to the court showing when and how the bullet proof vests were purchased was not authentic. “We need to look at all four corners of the indictment,” Canepa said. She said there is much more to the case than Owen was putting before the court and asked Deering to over rule the motion..... "
Trial dates set for Newcomb, Wagner - Portsmouth Daily Times

Thank you so much, CC! All 4 corners of the indictment is also very interesting!

 

[bowler]

Thank you so much, CC! All 4 corners of the indictment is also very interesting!

Checked meaning and:
The term is ordinarily included in the phrase within the four corners of the document, which denotes that in ascertaining thelegal significance and consequences of the document, the parties and the court can only examine its language and allmatters encompassed within it. Extraneous information concerning the document that does not appear in it—within its fourcorners—cannot be evaluated.

 

[Betty P]

Does anyone have Fred and Rita's indictments? I'd like to look up that date but can't find the indictments.

Yes, the links are in the first page of this thread, in the Case Overview/Summary.

OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#45