OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #13

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It is scary. Whenever I go out, I always think the killer could walk or drive right past me and I wouldn't even know. Pretty terrifying that whoever is responsible for murdering 8 people is walking free somewhere.
Also, my sister in law was taking her friend home the other night on Union Hill and a car was beside her running the same speed. If she slowed down, it slowed down. When she sped up, it sped up. She couldn't get away from them. It was about 930 at night and the windows were so dark she couldn't see inside. She finally gassed it and got in front of them because she had to make a left hand turn. Of course they turned behind her. She pulled in her friends driveway and they kept going thank goodness. Really creepy though.

Wanted to clarify- Union Hill is on 32. Union Hill Road turns off of 32.



Could she describe the vehicle, and did she make a report? Did she get a tag number by chance? LE still has people out there, so hopefully it was just someone being an idiot. :notgood:
 
Could she describe the vehicle, and did she make a report? Did she get a tag number by chance? LE still has people out there, so hopefully it was just someone being an idiot. :notgood:

She did not get a tag number. Just a description of the car- black 4 door sedan with dark tinted windows and an Ohio plate.
 
Ok let's take CHSr' trailer

The murderer gets in the house somehow, doesn't know what to expect except they hope Chris and Gary are asleep. Do they know no one else is in there? If so how? Did they think Chris was alone?

They fire 12 shots ( if reports are true) not a get in get out with 2 shots like movies we've seen on tv. If no casings did they count the shots, turn on the lights to make sure they got the casings. They could land anywhere in the area of shots. Maybe the casings were there and BLM just didn't see them. In her state of shock I can see this happening.

Making these plans to do this, they thought ok I'm going through a window. How do they know a window would be open? Or how do they know when they leave by a window where their going to land? We're they behind the trailer another time to make this plan?

I would think when you go in to kill, you want in and out asap. Not knowing if someone heard the shots, not knowing the plans of Chris and Gary, heck someone might have been planning to stop by at midnight, 4 or ? In the morning. Or something could have happened at FR trailer and one of them run over to CRSr trailer at the time this was happening. Someone could be driving by.

This sounds like the dirty dozen where they rehearsed this over and over to get it right. Then it sounds like someone just decided to kill a family and let the chips fall where they may.

The same goes for FR, DR and KR.

Evidence-hairs, fibers, shoe prints, blood. Has to be some of this especially if anyone put up a fight.

Why even bother locking the doors at CHRSr or FRs? That makes no sense. If your not worried about someone walking in while your committing murder why worry after you leave?
Someone at some point was going to find dead bodies.

Then the distance from CHRSr to DR what a mile and a half? Did they kill then run that distance? How did they get on union hill rd? Had to have a vehicle because they went 10 mins to KR. Where was the vehicle? No matter what time of night anyone could have driven by and seen a vehicle.

We have 32 shots

9- CHRSr
3- GR
1- KR
---
13

32 less 13 = 19

So 19 for FR, HG, DR, CRjr, HR

Overkill, makes no sense.

Someone trained and professional I doubt it.

Someone lucky that their targets were in place when doing this (wiping out a family) what if DR didn't come straight home from work, decided to spend the night someplace or work a triple. I say this because if the goal was to wipe out anyone that might know who the killer/killers were, anyone of the 8 could have been someplace else that night.

With multiple shooters the risk is high that one makes a mistake or talks after the fact.

None of it makes any damn sense. My brain is exhausted trying to figure out who and why.

It's like in the Haleigh Cummings case, many of us tried so hard to find the who and why, making a case for 6-7 + different people that could have done it. But here we are years later no knowing what happened to her. The who and why still out there. I hope I live long enough to know what happened to her and where she is. It's doubtful.

Anyway I'm rambling and confused as ever.

JMO

have at me..


Good analysis! Thanks. My brain is exhausted too. May I "have at" just a tad? From the beginning we have heard about premeditation and planning and cover up. I tend to see some professionalism here. Intel gathered, planning, carrying out of the mission. Rogue LE? They could pull it off, but I am skeptical of such an involvement. X-Military? Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan? I imagine that there are plenty of those folks around there back in the hills. They have been trained to kill and are efficient. I heard that there were no shell casings left about. This shows control and experience. I won't be surprised if there are no fingerprints either. These assassins were good and efficient. I do see training and professional elements here. A swift guerrilla attack in the night. Efficient and deadly. One or two persons? I see maybe 3 or 4. Hit the targets simultaneously. Take care of business and leave like ghosts in the night.
Pa used to say, "Cut off the head". The snake may trash about and bleed and rattle, but it can't bite anymore.
LM said "we ain't got revenge in our hearts". Seems an odd comment to me unless there is a message saying "enough". Then he says that he isn't saying no more. Several folks seem to be reluctant to say too much, and I don't know if it is only because of pressure from LE.
We have heard of activities where the Rhodens and associates would all head over, as a raiding group, to dispense punishment out to a target, bust them up, knock out some teeth and hightail it back to the home turf after somebody gets out a gun and fires in the air. No serious harm done and the teeth can be glued back in the dentures. (I got a kick out of that comment from one of the involved persons).

Ballistics would tell so much. How many weapons? How many different calibers? Are recovered slugs from the victims all matched to one or two guns, or many? 32 rounds is a lot of shots from one or two weapons. Overkill? Maybe, but you don't bother to count sometimes. Get the job done. You can shoot somebody a half dozen times before they fall dead. To be sure, kill shots to the heads and leave. Doesn't take long. This whole thing could have gone down in 10 minutes.
Why the money left on the body? That must be a message, but what? It is significant.
Did they die at a close time frame, or over many hours? We have so little factual info and much interesting and insightful speculation.
I won't be surprised to hear that Devil Anse done rose from his grave over on Tug Fork. Family honor, revenge, justice - Mountain style.
The surveys are interesting. It appears that many of us have similar suspicions, but the distribution of the results shows diversity in opinions.
 
Something else I've been thinking about. One theory is that all 8 were killed because some of them would have been able to point the finger at the killer(s) if they knew who they were and had seen them that night at one of the trailers. But how would the killer(s) be able to assume that by killing all 8 that no one would know? How would the killer(s) know if any one of the victims had not mentioned during a phone call or text at some time that night to someone they were at so-and-so's visiting? Killing all eight victims didn't necessarily make sure no one else had knowledge of their being at one or more of the trailers.

And with the number of gunshots these murders don't sound very "sophisticated" to me. Really all the killers needed to do was take some basic steps, like gloves, remove cameras,etc., things that anyone who's ever watched crime shows know. Basic steps and dumb luck. I've also started to wonder if the killer(s) were on meth. Maybe they were on meth but not so high they didn't know to take some steps to hide tracks back to them. I think whoever it was was very well known to the Rhodens and there had been a rift. Maybe the killer(s) pretended to extend an olive branch?

And I think KR's murder may have been done to cause chaos and confusion for LE. Look at how much trouble it's causing everyone else trying to figure out what happened!

My theory du jour is that this was the result of a feud between retailers (gangs) someplace else. Based on the number of plants and ongoing statements/beliefs about how widespread the crop is in Pike County there may well be multiple wholesalers tucked away in the area. And perhaps they have been providing pretty exclusively to one set of retailers in Columbus, Cleveland, Detroit, or whatever. There is agitation (I am supposing) between the retail group and some upstart group in the retail area--resulting in the upstart buying up all the product from Pike County. Or perhaps the growers got organized amongst themselves and set off a bidding war--driving the price up. The 200 or so plants coming from the Rhodens might be a small sacrifice to ensure the ongoing "loyalty" of the rest of the wholesalers (growers) to whichever retail group (gang) carried off the executions. And it would be making an extreme power-play against whoever the upstart retailers are in whatever area.

I do still think that the cars are being traced for any connection to crimes in other areas in search of a possible link--rather than any real direct evidence (hidden money, secret panels and the like).

As always--pure conjecture.
 
Ok let's take CHSr' trailer

The murderer gets in the house somehow, doesn't know what to expect except they hope Chris and Gary are asleep. Do they know no one else is in there? If so how? Did they think Chris was alone?

They fire 12 shots ( if reports are true) not a get in get out with 2 shots like movies we've seen on tv. If no casings did they count the shots, turn on the lights to make sure they got the casings. They could land anywhere in the area of shots. Maybe the casings were there and BLM just didn't see them. In her state of shock I can see this happening.

Making these plans to do this, they thought ok I'm going through a window. How do they know a window would be open? Or how do they know when they leave by a window where their going to land? We're they behind the trailer another time to make this plan?

I would think when you go in to kill, you want in and out asap. Not knowing if someone heard the shots, not knowing the plans of Chris and Gary, heck someone might have been planning to stop by at midnight, 4 or ? In the morning. Or something could have happened at FR trailer and one of them run over to CRSr trailer at the time this was happening. Someone could be driving by.

This sounds like the dirty dozen where they rehearsed this over and over to get it right. Then it sounds like someone just decided to kill a family and let the chips fall where they may.

The same goes for FR, DR and KR.

Evidence-hairs, fibers, shoe prints, blood. Has to be some of this especially if anyone put up a fight.

Why even bother locking the doors at CHRSr or FRs? That makes no sense. If your not worried about someone walking in while your committing murder why worry after you leave?
Someone at some point was going to find dead bodies.

Then the distance from CHRSr to DR what a mile and a half? Did they kill then run that distance? How did they get on union hill rd? Had to have a vehicle because they went 10 mins to KR. Where was the vehicle? No matter what time of night anyone could have driven by and seen a vehicle.

We have 32 shots

9- CHRSr
3- GR
1- KR
---
13

32 less 13 = 19

So 19 for FR, HG, DR, CRjr, HR

Overkill, makes no sense.

Someone trained and professional I doubt it.

Someone lucky that their targets were in place when doing this (wiping out a family) what if DR didn't come straight home from work, decided to spend the night someplace or work a triple. I say this because if the goal was to wipe out anyone that might know who the killer/killers were, anyone of the 8 could have been someplace else that night.

With multiple shooters the risk is high that one makes a mistake or talks after the fact.

None of it makes any damn sense. My brain is exhausted trying to figure out who and why.

It's like in the Haleigh Cummings case, many of us tried so hard to find the who and why, making a case for 6-7 + different people that could have done it. But here we are years later no knowing what happened to her. The who and why still out there. I hope I live long enough to know what happened to her and where she is. It's doubtful.

Anyway I'm rambling and confused as ever.

JMO

have at me..





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About their being home....I can't help but wonder if whomever killed them didn't know Dana was home because she was posting on Facebook that night.

As for Chris Sr. and Gary, I wonder if maybe that's why it was the only struggle we know of because it was THE only struggle....maybe they didn't know Gary was there and he was killed simply because he In the wrong place at the wrong time. I truly believe that Chris Senior's house and what transpired there is going to hold way more answers than any of the other crime scenes, simply because we know that they weren't found in their beds, but in the bedroom floor. Combine that with the fact that CSR was shot 9 times, Gary 3 and the coroners report that "some victims" had soft tissue bruises consistent with a struggle? There has to be something there of evidentiary value because I believe this is where whoever did this hit a big snag in their plan in the form of GR.

JMO
 
I was looking at pics of Dana's living room that she posted on Facebook right after she moved in ... I'm not sure if I can post them here, but I will if I can. Anyway, the front door opens right into the living room and there's a couch to the left of the door. All I can imagine, if her brother did see her legs and back out, that maybe she was on the floor in front of the couch with her legs sticking out? It still seems though, that if she had been in the living room, he would have seen her entire body and not just her legs. From the way the LR is set up.


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I was looking at pics of Dana's living room that she posted on Facebook right after she moved in ... I'm not sure if I can post them here, but I will if I can. Anyway, the front door opens right into the living room and there's a couch to the left of the door. All I can imagine, if her brother did see her legs and back out, that maybe she was on the floor in front of the couch with her legs sticking out? It still seems though, that if she had been in the living room, he would have seen her entire body and not just her legs. From the way the LR is set up.


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If you can post, please do. I don't have Facebook.

I was also confused by her brother saying he only saw her legs. Clearly she wasn't in bed, has it been confirmed she was found in the living room?... I also think it's odd he "backed out" after he found her. What if she was still alive? You wouldn't be able to tell much just from seeing legs.
 
About their being home....I can't help but wonder if whomever killed them didn't know Dana was home because she was posting on Facebook that night.

As for Chris Sr. and Gary, I wonder if maybe that's why it was the only struggle we know of because it was THE only struggle....maybe they didn't know Gary was there and he was killed simply because he In the wrong place at the wrong time. I truly believe that Chris Senior's house and what transpired there is going to hold way more answers than any of the other crime scenes, simply because we know that they weren't found in their beds, but in the bedroom floor. Combine that with the fact that CSR was shot 9 times, Gary 3 and the coroners report that "some victims" had soft tissue bruises consistent with a struggle? There has to be something there of evidentiary value because I believe this is where whoever did this hit a big snag in their plan in the form of GR.

JMO

People can post on Facebook anywhere--don't have to be at home.
 
If you can post, please do. I don't have Facebook.

I was also confused by her brother saying he only saw her legs. Clearly she wasn't in bed, has it been confirmed she was found in the living room?... I also think it's odd he "backed out" after he found her. What if she was still alive? You wouldn't be able to tell much just from seeing legs.

I agree--that's odd. Perhaps the legs were not in an expected place--as in she was on the floor rather than the couch on in bed. And he apparently already knew about the other killings.
 
People can post on Facebook anywhere--don't have to be at home.

I'm aware, but if her location services were on, they'd know she was in the right vicinity, so a quick drive by her house to check for her car wouldn't be too hard.
 
Something else I've been thinking about. One theory is that all 8 were killed because some of them would have been able to point the finger at the killer(s) if they knew who they were and had seen them that night at one of the trailers. But how would the killer(s) be able to assume that by killing all 8 that no one would know? How would the killer(s) know if any one of the victims had not mentioned during a phone call or text at some time that night to someone they were at so-and-so's visiting? Killing all eight victims didn't necessarily make sure no one else had knowledge of their being at one or more of the trailers.

And with the number of gunshots these murders don't sound very "sophisticated" to me. Really all the killers needed to do was take some basic steps, like gloves, remove cameras,etc., things that anyone who's ever watched crime shows know. Basic steps and dumb luck. I've also started to wonder if the killer(s) were on meth. Maybe they were on meth but not so high they didn't know to take some steps to hide tracks back to them. I think whoever it was was very well known to the Rhodens and there had been a rift. Maybe the killer(s) pretended to extend an olive branch?

And I think KR's murder may have been done to cause chaos and confusion for LE. Look at how much trouble it's causing everyone else trying to figure out what happened!

My thinking is that several family members were targeted in addition to whomever was a principal target in order to take out anyone who might not only know who did the killing, but also be able to organize a strike back. And then each household was cleaned out for good measure.
 
It would have been to early in the season to plant them that Friday. Good rule of thumb is Mother's Day. This year is late. Today it's 35 deg in pittsburgh which is somewhat close. There were snow flakes yesterday. Everything would've frosted. Farmers know this. I have a small garden and know this. If it was a cash crop I'd be even more in tune.[/QUOTE.]
Thank you. I don't know anything about Ohio growing seasons. Going by what you are saying it does sound to early to plant.
The two pieces of information that makes me wonder if the grow operation was expanding from one to three are that DS says there was one tray of marijuana in KR's shed. The other reason is that CRsr recently bought the land were DR was living.
If they took clones or cuttings from the main plants would it be typical to put them in a tray to transport, if they were going to be grown outside? Would they need need adjusting from growing inside under a controlled environment to growing g outside. Like maybe for a few weeks the tray is placed outside during the sunny part of the day and brought in during the cooler temps to adjust from the climate controlled environment.
While we don't even know if the murders were committed over marijuana, I think it is possible another local grower found out they were expanding and decided to get rid of the competition.
I know most believe that the number of plants mentioned in MSM is 200, but from what I have read I believe hundreds could be a major grow operation with hundreds meaning up to 900 plants.
Can anyone point me I the direction of a MSM report (other than Dailymail) that quotes law enforcement stating 200 plants?


Its really hard to speculate on what exactly they were doing. Being that KR had some my guess is it's been going on a long time. Or maybe one of the younger ones got into it and the older ones saw a opportunity. I'm not sure if the DA ever confirmed it was around 200 or not. I read a bunch of articles the said 200 and one that said 2000 (not a reliable one). I don't see any reason they would be driving around with plants risking getting caught with all the room and buildings they had. DS said he saw one tray (I'm assuming a flat with seedlings). KR was probably going to take it out on the land and then cash it out right before winter stow it away for a rainy day. Or pack it away as his supply. IMO from what we think we know. It was to small for any type of organization to murder an entire family. If it was local and over the weed I feel like they would have taken it. It would've been someone who knew what it was worth why leave it behind. Or why not wait till it's ready? Or they had all the money for it? IMO it had nothing to do with weed. Or roosters for that matter. The guys in hazmat in the building behind CRsr and the 55 gal drums stand out most to me. I understand guys in the murder scene would be wearing the suits, but IMO there is no reason the would have them on out in the woods away from the scenes.

Me me thinking out loud I really have no clue. 55gal drums could have been rooster food and then turned into rooster houses. I think it's a deep seeded thing that's going to have ties all over the place. I assume a number of people will go to jail. But who knows, what we have heard to this point may be all we ever hear. LE has EVERYTHING and hasn't said much to this point.
 
Here is a question if it is within TOS. All speculation, please correct me if I misstate something obvious. I do get it mixed up sometimes.

Not looking for actual names. Looking for connections. Business, location/ geographic, distant un named relatives.

The Clarence Rhoden Family seemed to have a lot of land. Most of it ended up in CR possession.
Perhaps he was the only family member generating a good deal of money, and perhaps he privately bought out other
family members that needed cash. I am not clear on this point. How was CR making significant $$ early on?

Chris Sr. Was married to Dana Manley. That marriage was his connection to the Leonard Manley Family.
Is there another connection?

CR and DR divorced, remained on good terms, having 2 children together.

CR recently purchased land for DR, near his property and near her parents home. DR moved in with 2 of 3 children ( I assume).

That particular land/trailer purchase was rather expensive. Previously that land was strong owned by someone, but who?
I do not want names. Was that purchase a way to return family land to Dana Manley?
I Do Not know.
Or was it distant Rhoden family land? He moved DR in, but the land was not put in DR name.

I am am thinking out loud. Only point I can make is, Rhodens and Manleys never seemed to go their separate ways.

Just trying to have a new thought process, for discussion.
Final question runs thru my mind.
Regardless of exactly what the various Family business were, who controlled the money. Where was the cash kept?
 
I haven't noticed that LE is more baffled by KR's murder than any of the others. Can you cite any specific statements? As for the theory you mentioned first, I wouldn't argue that some of the victims were killed because they were aware the killers would be visiting that night. They may have been killed because they were in close proximity, and thus potential witnesses, to the real targets (I.e., at least one person, for whatever reason, was the real target in each location).


I didn't say LE is more baffled by KR's murder. I said I think one motive in killing KR could be that the killer(s) were planning on creating confusion for LE as to the motives for one or more of the other murders to prevent identifying the killers. I'm just commenting on one of the theories I've read as to why these eight wre murdered at four locations. I agree with you that at least one in each location was a target. I'm not sure what to make of KR's murder, so thought I'd offer up a theory as to why he was killed. KR was something like 6 or 7 miles away, and I find it curious as to why he was killed.
 
Here is a question if it is within TOS. All speculation, please correct me if I misstate something obvious. I do get it mixed up sometimes.

Not looking for actual names. Looking for connections. Business, location/ geographic, distant un named relatives.

The Clarence Rhoden Family seemed to have a lot of land. Most of it ended up in CR possession.
Perhaps he was the only family member generating a good deal of money, and perhaps he privately bought out other
family members that needed cash. I am not clear on this point. How was CR making significant $$ early on?

Chris Sr. Was married to Dana Manley. That marriage was his connection to the Leonard Manley Family.
Is there another connection?

CR and DR divorced, remained on good terms, having 2 children together.

CR recently purchased land for DR, near his property and near her parents home. DR moved in with the 2 children ( I assume).

That particular land/trailer purchase was rather expensive. Previously that land was owned by someone, but who?
I do not want names. Was that purchase a way to return family land to Dana Manley?
I Do Not know.
Or was it Distant Rhoden family land? He moved DR in, but the land was not put in DR name.

I am am thinking out loud. Only point I can make is, Rhodens and Manleys never seemed to go their separate ways.

Just trying to have a new thought process, for discussion.
Final ? Runs thru my mind.
Regardless of exactly what the various Family business were, who controlled the money. Where was the cash kept?

CR & DR had 3 children FR, HR, & CRj
 
Ok let's take CHSr' trailer

The murderer gets in the house somehow, doesn't know what to expect except they hope Chris and Gary are asleep. Do they know no one else is in there? If so how? Did they think Chris was alone?

They fire 12 shots ( if reports are true) not a get in get out with 2 shots like movies we've seen on tv. If no casings did they count the shots, turn on the lights to make sure they got the casings. They could land anywhere in the area of shots. Maybe the casings were there and BLM just didn't see them. In her state of shock I can see this happening.

Making these plans to do this, they thought ok I'm going through a window. How do they know a window would be open? Or how do they know when they leave by a window where their going to land? We're they behind the trailer another time to make this plan?

I would think when you go in to kill, you want in and out asap. Not knowing if someone heard the shots, not knowing the plans of Chris and Gary, heck someone might have been planning to stop by at midnight, 4 or ? In the morning. Or something could have happened at FR trailer and one of them run over to CRSr trailer at the time this was happening. Someone could be driving by.

This sounds like the dirty dozen where they rehearsed this over and over to get it right. Then it sounds like someone just decided to kill a family and let the chips fall where they may.

The same goes for FR, DR and KR.

Evidence-hairs, fibers, shoe prints, blood. Has to be some of this especially if anyone put up a fight.

Why even bother locking the doors at CHRSr or FRs? That makes no sense. If your not worried about someone walking in while your committing murder why worry after you leave?
Someone at some point was going to find dead bodies.

Then the distance from CHRSr to DR what a mile and a half? Did they kill then run that distance? How did they get on union hill rd? Had to have a vehicle because they went 10 mins to KR. Where was the vehicle? No matter what time of night anyone could have driven by and seen a vehicle.

We have 32 shots

9- CHRSr
3- GR
1- KR
---
13

32 less 13 = 19

So 19 for FR, HG, DR, CRjr, HR

Overkill, makes no sense.

Someone trained and professional I doubt it.

Someone lucky that their targets were in place when doing this (wiping out a family) what if DR didn't come straight home from work, decided to spend the night someplace or work a triple. I say this because if the goal was to wipe out anyone that might know who the killer/killers were, anyone of the 8 could have been someplace else that night.

With multiple shooters the risk is high that one makes a mistake or talks after the fact.

None of it makes any damn sense. My brain is exhausted trying to figure out who and why.

It's like in the Haleigh Cummings case, many of us tried so hard to find the who and why, making a case for 6-7 + different people that could have done it. But here we are years later no knowing what happened to her. The who and why still out there. I hope I live long enough to know what happened to her and where she is. It's doubtful.

Anyway I'm rambling and confused as ever.

JMO

have at me..





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:goodpost:

This case is crazy, and I share your frustrations! I hope this case will be solved soon.
 
If you can post, please do. I don't have Facebook.

I was also confused by her brother saying he only saw her legs. Clearly she wasn't in bed, has it been confirmed she was found in the living room?... I also think it's odd he "backed out" after he found her. What if she was still alive? You wouldn't be able to tell much just from seeing legs.

Delete these if it's not allowed.
32950b42070d901fae47a006dca398b4.jpg
7519c466428c3601a36f3c38e51f9431.jpg
 
I'm aware, but if her location services were on, they'd know she was in the right vicinity, so a quick drive by her house to check for her car wouldn't be too hard.

Ay-yi-yi ... I cannot post the revelation I just had reading that.

I think this will be solved, just a matter of time lining up the ducks.
 
Found a pic of the Left Fork location finally. Is this the infamous Lumina?
92e85a66b2ce9d341c79ea4e288c8b7e.jpg
81ff0d7f54f414623762aa61d9477173.jpg
25d78f104ee6472c093d976004359343.jpg


Sorry to bring car talk back up. But it looks like the car was at Kenneth's.


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