OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #17

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It's always a possibility but I'm not sure Chris Rhoden would have been running a large enough operation to become a target for the cartel. Even the cartel has to pick and choose according to threat level before making such a huge "nationwide-news, world-wide news stink" as these murders are... and I just don't see the Rhodens as being so big they were squeezing the cartel out of the market or worth the news exposure that was sure to result. I also admit I know nothing about the cartel or weed farms/grows, whatever, so my guess is based on being just that... a guess.

These are very valid reasons against the cartel theory and to the same extent for any other organized crime group. Taking out an individual player is one thing, but taking out the whole family at other locations too. That would bring a whole lot of unwanted attention into your business and be extremely risky.


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I still think this was personal. Mass shootings have occurred before and were done by family members or someone such as an ex, or friend or aquaintance. Guy Heinz Jr was able to come in a very tiny mobile home and successfully murdered 8 family members as they slept. So while I know what the ex-FBI is referring to when he means mass shootings however I do not agree with him that this has to be some organized crime. There are suspects who are organized and disorganized in the way they commit their murders. Its based on the individuals and how much thought they put into it.

Imo, an organized hit by say a drug cartel wouldn't entail 32 shots being fired. That is not organized...........it is very sloppily done.

The element of surprise always favors the suspect/s. I am sure each of these victims were sleeping when the attacks began. If they were in a deep sleep they wouldn't have time to react before it was all over with. It takes less than a second to fire a firearm each time. Their brain would have to have enough time to comprehend what was even happening even if it was a few seconds so they could react to the situation they found themselves in. In a few seconds they are dead. I do believe it was at least two shooters working in tandem.

I just wish they would solve this case but it may be one that takes months or years to solve. Around 35% of murder cases are never solved and all of those weren't done by some organized crime hit man/men.

Suspects unfortunately get lucky sometimes.:( If this was a surprise attack on most of them there really wouldn't be any reason why they would have left evidence behind of themselves. Even the one who was shot 9 times may have tried to flee but its impossible to flee from bullets. The perpetrator/s would kill one and then go on to the next one who it seems was unaware of what had happened to the rest of their family members.

I Agree. The fact that no arrest has been made does not mean it is a very complex case or that it was done by organized crime. It could be simply because evidence is difficult to gather and alibis difficult to establish.

I think we all agree that the killer knew the family well and had been in the house at least once before. So how do you establish that evidence collected is related to the crime?

How do you prove someone's alibi does not hold in Pike county in the middle of the night?

Who in the area does not own at least one gun? And if the killer got rid of the weapon in the bush, when will it be found?

They knew a few people with history of violence or criminal activity. But then what does it prove?

I am afraid that unless the killer confess, it will be quite difficult to solve this crime. Do you have a different analysis?
 
Certainly possible , but not probable IMO.
The grow ops seem really small scale if just in the hundreds of plants. For the most part, the cartels are further up the supply chain and probably wouldn't mess with a small time grower. CRsr probably would have been dealing with a more local group such as Iron Horsemen MC.


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I don't know how probable it is. I'm certainly no expert. But a former FBI agent (in an article mentioned before) seems to be leaning in that direction: http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/ne...massacre-differs-from-most-mass-killin/nrMXm/ Of course, he could be wrong. Because of his expertise, though, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss his thoughts. Even if we're not talking about a Mexican cartel, per se, an organized criminal enterprise of some type is possible.
 
I don't know how probable it is. I'm certainly no expert. But a former FBI agent (in an article mentioned before) seems to be leaning in that direction: http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/ne...massacre-differs-from-most-mass-killin/nrMXm/ Of course, he could be wrong. Because of his expertise, though, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss his thoughts. Even if we're not talking about a Mexican cartel, per se, an organized criminal enterprise of some type is possible.

I agree with the article that it could be related to organized crime and that it is not a typical mass murder. Given the various illegal activities that were likely going on at 4077 UHR, that has to be a good possibility.

I lived in El Paso and worked in Juarez before moving to Ohio. Cartel hits were pretty much indiscriminate at that time but were mostly between members (or suspected members) of Sinoloa and Juarez. This crime has some aspects of a "cartel" hit, but also has some differences such as the children being unharmed. A cartel hit would have likely included kids and dogs if they were trying to send a message


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I've wondered that too as a possible theory but, I keep coming back to this being done to satisfy something specifically for the killer. In other words, this family has done something that the murderer has found so foul that they could not let it slide. It may have even been months/years in the brewing b/c I do not think this family felt like any danger, at least of this magnitude, was awaiting them.

Or maybe the family knew something bad about the murderer/s and they didn't want anyone else to know about it. So they silenced them all.

Many murders have been committed in order to protect a secret of some kind.

IMO
 
I agree with the article that it could be related to organized crime and that it is not a typical mass murder. Given the various illegal activities that were likely going on at 4077 UHR, that has to be a good possibility.

I lived in El Paso and worked in Juarez before moving to Ohio. Cartel hits were pretty much indiscriminate at that time but were mostly between members (or suspected members) of Sinoloa and Juarez. This crime has some aspects of a "cartel" hit, but also has some differences such as the children being unharmed. A cartel hit would have likely included kids and dogs if they were trying to send a message


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And they killed everyone in this immediate family so who would the message be for? The people would have to know what the message is and for whom.

We have seen other cases where murderers will go from one house or one location to another.... shooting those in different locations. Those weren't done by organized crime.

I have never felt this had anything to do with a Mexican cartel. This area is predominantly white so Mexicans coming around that area would stick out like a sore thumb and they would have to have come to each location before to know the layout of the homes/dogs, and property. etc.

I just don't see it being an organized hit but that's JMO.
 
I would also like to know how many people who keep fighting roosters keep them in plain sight out next to their homes where anyone driving by can see them? I'm going to guess not too many. I don't believe Frankie was keeping those birds to fight. I'm pretty sure they were a money making hobby that he was proud enough of to put on virtual display in the yard... just as he was of the other birds he was keeping... I believe he had quail and chickens as well. I don't put as much weight on the types of cages as some might. He may have picked those cages up for a nice price... used or whatever. At any rate, he didn't appear to be hiding those birds.
 
I would also like to know how many people who keep fighting roosters keep them in plain sight out next to their homes where anyone driving by can see them? I'm going to guess not too many. I don't believe Frankie was keeping those birds to fight. I'm pretty sure they were a money making hobby that he was proud enough of to put on virtual display in the yard... just as he was of the other birds he was keeping... I believe he had quail and chickens as well. I don't put as much weight on the types of cages as some might. He may have picked those cages up for a nice price... used or whatever. At any rate, he didn't appear to be hiding those birds.

You'd be surprised at how many of those roosters are seen from the road in southern Ohio.
 
You'd be surprised at how many of those roosters are seen from the road in southern Ohio.

But are they all used for fighting? Maybe some people keep them right out front because if they had them in back people would suppose they were hiding them? I don't understand really. If I was inclined to keep roosters, I'd keep them inside a shady open to air building. I can't understand lining them up on display to the roadway at all. (Thanks for your answer)
 
But are they all used for fighting? Maybe some people keep them right out front because if they had them in back people would suppose they were hiding them? I don't understand really. If I was inclined to keep roosters, I'd keep them inside a shady open to air building. I can't understand lining them up on display to the roadway at all. (Thanks for your answer)

It's not against the law to raise and breed them, and they travel away from home for the fights. I've seen hundreds of them over the years and I'm sure some are just being bred to sell but I'm just as sure that some are being used in fights.
 
It's not against the law to raise and breed them, and they travel away from home for the fights. I've seen hundreds of them over the years and I'm sure some are just being bred to sell but I'm just as sure that some are being used in fights.

I have one more question. If fighting roosters can be bred to sell; what is their purpose if that is a simple as that? Iow, if the person buying them has no plan to use them for fighting, is it along the same lines as any other "pretty" animal bought as a hobby of sorts? I know of a place near me where a tourist attraction is keeping what I would call "pretty or fancy hens" and because they are really just nice to look at. Would it be along the same lines as that? I'm sorry. I'm just trying to figure out if people keep fighting roosters for any reason other than to fight them and why.
 
I have one more question. If fighting roosters can be bred to sell; what is their purpose if that is a simple as that? Iow, if the person buying them has no plan to use them for fighting, is it along the same lines as any other "pretty" animal bought as a hobby of sorts? I know of a place near me where a tourist attraction is keeping what I would call "pretty or fancy hens" and because they are really just nice to look at. Would it be along the same lines as that? I'm sorry. I'm just trying to figure out if people keep fighting roosters for any reason other than to fight them and why.

People might rescue fighting roosters and keep them.
 
I have one more question. If fighting roosters can be bred to sell; what is their purpose if that is a simple as that? Iow, if the person buying them has no plan to use them for fighting, is it along the same lines as any other "pretty" animal bought as a hobby of sorts? I know of a place near me where a tourist attraction is keeping what I would call "pretty or fancy hens" and because they are really just nice to look at. Would it be along the same lines as that? I'm sorry. I'm just trying to figure out if people keep fighting roosters for any reason other than to fight them and why.

I suppose a few may keep them as a hobby but I think the majority breed them to sell. BTW they are not nice birds to keep around as pets. They have a very nasty attitude, mostly the males. I always kept a few game hens with my other laying hens. They're the best setters and they'll raise orphaned chicks like their own.
 
Not all organized crime is Mexican drug cartels. Some of the nastiest crimes around New England (a couple of them involving murders in more than one location) have been by gangs that I guess could be called freelance :p

I don't have a full theory or anything, but since it turned out not to be a family murder-suicide as it sounded in the beginning, I've been leaning toward the silencing-a-snitch theory.

ETA: When I was growing up, I knew of a couple of people who did raise fighting roosters. They said it was just for the heck of it, but looking back on it, I wonder whether that was the whole truth.
 
Not all organized crime is Mexican drug cartels. Some of the nastiest crimes around New England (a couple of them involving murders in more than one location) have been by gangs that I guess could be called freelance :p

I don't have a full theory or anything, but since it turned out not to be a family murder-suicide as it sounded in the beginning, I've been leaning toward the silencing-a-snitch theory.

ETA: When I was growing up, I knew of a couple of people who did raise fighting roosters. They said it was just for the heck of it, but looking back on it, I wonder whether that was the whole truth.

Might be interesting to see what drug busts happened in recent months.
 
It's not against the law to raise and breed them, and they travel away from home for the fights. I've seen hundreds of them over the years and I'm sure some are just being bred to sell but I'm just as sure that some are being used in fights.

What you said makes sense - they're not doing anything illegal while breeding, keeping and selling them. I have no idea how bad it would have to be for he ASPCA to step in.

Do you mean you've seen the roosters or you've seen the fights? Or both? I've never roosters fighting in any sort of arranged fashion, although I've owned a few who fought with each other.
:chicken:
 
Might be interesting to see what drug busts happened in recent months.

Yes, and I'm half-waiting for another murder or murders to take place as a result of this one we're discussing. Along the lines of having to eliminate one or two who are no longer as enthusiastic over it all as they first might have been. Because, no matter who did it, I'm pretty sure there was someone on the very inside providing information to others to ensure "success."
 
I have one more question. If fighting roosters can be bred to sell; what is their purpose if that is a simple as that? Iow, if the person buying them has no plan to use them for fighting, is it along the same lines as any other "pretty" animal bought as a hobby of sorts? I know of a place near me where a tourist attraction is keeping what I would call "pretty or fancy hens" and because they are really just nice to look at. Would it be along the same lines as that? I'm sorry. I'm just trying to figure out if people keep fighting roosters for any reason other than to fight them and why.

Feather type and quality, color, etc. would all be reasons people buy them and sell chickens and other poultry as a hobby.
 
"Punishment for someone left behind" or "making a statement" is a very real possibility and whether that was done purposefully, as the primary motive, or just as a result of the murders in general, we can't really know. Sometimes I like to make a list of the bottom lines in any murder in trying to find motive. What was actually accomplished by these murders? Some answers are obvious in this case in that child custody will change and land ownership changing hands will be a definite result. Nothing else is obvious to me as being a provable result of the murders. Well.... sadness, broken hearts, strong suspicions, anxiety, fear, uncertainty... family and surrounding area... all are a given, too. That's why I think some have comfortably become condemning of the murdered. "It happened to THEM because THEY were bad so it won't happen to ME because I'm good" feels nice and safe to some people. We really don't even know if the amount of weed sold by some of the murdered was motive enough to kill 8 people. Then again, different amounts of weed would motivate different people to do any number of things so even the amount of weed is not definitive in any way. Like everyone else, I wish we had more facts... even a few to go on... because it seems everyone here can take the smallest of details and use them to every logical conclusion which is pretty much how crimes are solved after sorting out and eliminating what doesn't fit at all. (Sorry to ramble but I've waited weeks; catching up on reading the threads before making many comments and my mind has been in a roar!) I see nothing strange or political about the moving of all the trailers to a safe location. Left where they were, they would have been invaded, searched, things stolen out of... pretty much torn apart by treasure hunters looking for hidden cash/drugs and probably been set of fire, every one, in the long run. Same goes for the cars. People would have been sneaking in at night with wrenches and other tools and picking the cars clean of parts and searching for hidden money/drugs whether it was there or not. That's just my opinion. Guaranteed years from now people will still be saying there's money hidden out there; buried near big trees or next to wells or... well, everyone knows how legends are born and go on forever. Btw, I read about a trailer burned after a so far unsolved murder in that area although I don't remember where but it was in a MSM site. Keeping the trailers safe allows for extensive DNA testing if new DNA comes to light due to another crime. To test every last square inch of 4 trailers otherwise just isn't going to be done due to cost. Again, just my opinion.
And last... more rambling but it won't leave my mind: I do think the purchase of the new property was a catalyst for the murders.
1) Someone else having been promised that THEY would be living there and "in charge of the weed" at that address... and, since more responsibility, be given more of a money cut because of it? When they were literally cut out of that deal and had to remain a worker bee, as usual, they became angry enough to plan these murders. "I'm not going to move in there? You broke your promise... made me feel like big man on campus and now I'm dumped because SHE'S moving in there... SHE who reconciled with you as soon as she heard you were thinking of buying the place and bringing the kids along, too? Oh, well... that ain't happening." (and I do not mean a scorned woman) ... and, I happen to feel very, very sorry for Dana so please don't think the above is MY speculation. Those "thoughts" belong to the murderer in my imagination.
2) Chris Sr owed money and had been putting someone off for awhile... promises, promises and soon, soon, "I don't have it now but I will soon" ... instead, he plunks down $60,000 on the new property proving he did have money or could get it. Nothing gets some people angrier than to be owed money and then see the one who owes spend money on themselves.
And, on the second guess, my mind wanders to a group of people and the possible drug connection. (KY?) Sorry to say I suspect a MC (and not a nice one at all) and that's coming from someone who has nothing against MCs because, in my past, I have known and even lived with several people who joined MC's. No, this MC is not collecting toys for tots at any time of year although some have children of their own and would never kill a child.
Remove this last sentence if against TOS but I have not seen this sort of SM removed since I am not naming anyone at all but:
"You don't have to make too many jumps from one "friendly and close to the victims" FB page to another and maybe to another... to come up with some people I would have NO desire to ever meet or cross in any way."

I think your point about cognitive dissonance is great. Some people find it easier to believe that someone was killed because of their poor choices because then they can tell themselves that "These things happen to bad people. I am not a bad person. Therefore, this will not happen to me." The notion that good people have bad things happen to them -- and that something bad can happen to you even though you are a good person -- is an idea that we, simply as a part of human nature, try to avoid. The unfortunate side effect of that is often lumping tar on victims.
 
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