OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #21

[Betty P]

You say it's isolated, no witness. I believe you

I still think the few statements regarding the number of perps, familiarity with the homes and the children are meaningful. After these statements I would find odd if investigators were clueless. Especially after 5 months

Investigators must know something about this case for blocking custodies, autopsy reports and having a gag order.

If it's not about a potential suspect, it is at least about the nature of the crime or its motivation.

I'm beginning to think it's about someone local (not necessarily close family) who knows something about what CR1, et al might have been involved in to cause the murders. This person may not have been involved nor had foreknowledge of the murders, but once they happened, may know who was behind it. This person may be so frightened, they're afraid to talk.

One of the links above about cancelling the family reunion had quotes from Tony R that I found interesting. He noted that when the erroneous story about arrests at the Texas border being linked to the case were reported, his family called to see if it was true. They waited and were disappointed to hear it wasn't. To me, that means they don't know the killers either. My impression only, is that none of those other Rhoden family members had much, if any knowledge about the criminal activities of CR1, GR, KR, etc. They seem as much in the dark as anyone.

If LE is waiting for anyone to crack, it's likely some locals involved in the same business/criminal trade, who weren't involved but might know or suspect who was behind it. In that case, you would think LE would approach them, ask for their cooperation and offer them some kind of witness protection/relocation, etc. in exchange for their help. If that's the case it could be one or two scenarios:

1. LE has approached other locals who may have knowledge offering a deal and protection, but they don't feel like they will have adequate protection. Perhaps they fear insiders in LE may leak their whereabouts to the killers.

2. LE hasn't approached other locals who may know something because they don't want their help.

3. This, IMO, is a less likely scenario. Other locals may include undercover agents/informants who are trying to find out who was behind he killings and retrieve some sort of evidence. Haven't acted yet, and don't know who was behind it. This seems less likely because, in the drug trade (not just MJ, but possibly harder drugs) it seems reasonable they already know who the major drug players are. They've been watching (and sometimes busting) them for years.

In none of these cases does it make sense to seal the autopsy reports unless the killers or persons behind the killer left some kind of signature "calling card", etc.

Like this, sometimes called narco-messages:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/11/world/fg-message11

It could have been some sort of message left behind that would have to be included in the autopsy report. A message to LE and/or other dealers in the area. They already seemed to have left a message with the tossing of cash at KR's death scene. Seems logical there could have been other messages included in the other deaths.


Just thinking out loud. Any other ideas?

 

[rsd1200]

You are right. Could be as simple. I'd feel bad for the family if someone got away with it. Even more if it's someone they know.

Like this case of the little 11-year-old Jacob Wetterling. These poor parents, twenty-seven years they waited. Heinrich had been a suspect. I hope I'm wrong, I'd not felt that way til this past weekend, maybe I'll feel differently later. But there was a case around here where two young men were murdered, in their home at night, (w/witnesses who survived but were terrified), and they lived out on a back road. Took over 10 years to solve and only got them then b/c the murderers slipped up and left DNA at a crime scene in another county. There were billboards, hotlines, and even 10 grand in reward money. Nothing.

http://www.startribune.com/danny-he...cting-and-killing-jacob-wetterling/392438361/

 

[Betty P]

Like this case of the little 11-year-old Jacob Wetterling. These poor parents, twenty-seven years they waited. Heinrich had been a suspect. I hope I'm wrong, I'd not felt that way til this past weekend, maybe I'll feel differently later. But there was a case around here where two young men were murdered, in their home at night, (w/witnesses who survived but were terrified), and they lived out on a back road. Took over 10 years to solve and only got them then b/c the murderers slipped up and left DNA at a crime scene in another county. There were billboards, hotlines, and even 10 grand in reward money. Nothing.

http://www.startribune.com/danny-he...cting-and-killing-jacob-wetterling/392438361/

Yes, very sad. As the Jacob Wetterling case seems to indicate, sometimes these cases need a "fresh look" from others at the case files to pick up on something or brainstorm a new approach. That's probably what is needed, but likely not wanted with the Rhoden executions.

 

[Ray Pate]

Let me offer a word of thanks to the sweet poster who a few threads back gave us her photos of the highways and intersections
a few miles from the murder scene.The reason I am in love with the pictures is because,, from the very beginning of my
Interests in this horrible slaughter, I had relied on pictures of the dirt roads leading by thr Rhoden property with what looked
like quite a bit of junk scattered here and there.when I saw the fine pictures of the broad,clean highways, I realized
that the Rhoden property might be the only location in Ohio where it is as convenient for a mass killing to occur..
On another note, I find no ideas or opinions stating that the killer ran or drove to the river to ditch his clothes, shoes,
guns, and hat.That type of scheme use to work but not any more.Now, it is possible that ordinary citizens coul dive
for the items and with modern equipment,find the weapons. Now only that, clothes will drift to the top of the river.Now,
my latest opinion involves looking around Pike County to find a furnace that is used 24-7 where the killer parks
his car at the opening of the furnace and disposes all the evidence to tremendous heat.

 

[glf]

I agree Ray, that clothes thrown in the river could be too easily found, unless weighted down. But that would be the ultimate give away, unless the killers went to a second hand store to buy clothing to wear specifically for the murders. They only other way besides burning them would be to bury them, maybe in another county. I've watched alot of Matlock, and disposing things or having things fixed anywhere close to home is an easy way to get caught.

P.S. yes, the pics are really nice!

 

[rsd1200]

They have dive teams, from across the country, that recover evidence (usually weapons), from rivers all the time. There's multiple bridges across the Scioto, that they could toss weapons over, up through that area, late at night. Wet clothing doesn't float along the top of the water. It gets wet and sinks. It may move along, near the bottom, with the water's current, but, if you've ever been around the water much, and accidentally dropped an article of clothing or towel, into deep water, you've just lost that item, for good (unless you are a diver). As for the dive teams, I don't recall reading anywhere that they've searched the Scioto for any weapons regarding this case. It would be very hard to even know where to start searching though. The Scioto is a pretty large river. On another note, they could've buried the weapons in those mountains somewhere. Danny James Heinrich buried little Jacob Wetterling for over 25 years, and even moved his body once b/c his red jacket began to show, but still, no one found him. Burying a few weapons, and maybe burning up some clothes in a burn pit, would not be that difficult in those mountains. There's probably places you could bury those weapons, up in there, that people haven't set foot on in years.

 

[evelezrn]

Maybe camped if they camped nearby UHR. But we are talking pretty dense forest region. It would probably take at least a couple of hours, in the daylight, for someone to walk from two-three miles, as the crow flies, in that area. I did a few screen grabs of that area of 32, UHR and the Rest Area. It's so isolated, there'd not be a need to hide in the mountains and wait. I honestly didn't realize the region was as close, terrain wise, to some of the terrain where I live. There'd be no one around to see them. I think the next rest stop was 60 miles. (I've driven through stretches of the mountain roads, at night, and not met a car for MILES.) Now, when I turned onto Hwy 23, it was populated. But out on 32, I'd say at night, it's pretty lonely out there.


Hwy 32/UHR Turn off

Hwy 32 driving East past UHR turn off.

Coming up to Hwy 32, Rest Area

Hwy 32 Rest Area

Ah, so you took a road trip RSD? That explains it.

On Sunday, your posts were rather scarce and I wondered.

Thank you for sharing the pix and your insight about the area and lay of the land.

 

[Rixey]

I think they were all, for the most part, asleep when they were murdered and, they either did not hit the T area, so the victims did not die immediately after the first shot, as expected by the assailant(s), or they double-triple tapped just because... Why overkill when your first shot is clean and efficient. The assailant(s) may have thought that shooting them through the eye would do the job, and it didn't, on FR, but it happened to on KR. So maybe KR was prior to FR. I'm rambling, I know, but, it doesn't seem they were very efficient in utilizing the "T-box".

I've been wondering if the difference in the number of shots per victim was not really about them and more about the skill levels of the shooters. The investigators and most everyone else believe there were at least two shooters. It could be that one killer was a good enough shot or just steadier nerves/more experience to only need one or two shots, while the other was either just not as good a shot and/or more nervous or inexperienced.

From the beginning the focus has been more on why was this victim shot more than that one. Was it their involvement in whatever put them in the crosshairs, or their relationship to the killers, etc, etc. But what if none of that was the deciding factor?

It could also explain why KR was shot once in the head/eye -- he was the only victim who was alone and his location was furthest away, so either he was killed by the "better" shot, or the other one was less nervous/rushed with only one victim in a more isolated location.

Just trying to look at it from a different angle.

 

[rsd1200]

Ah, so you took a road trip RSD? That explains it.

On Sunday, your posts were rather scarce and I wondered.

Thank you for sharing the pix and your insight about the area and lay of the land.

Yeah, went up for a m/c rodeo over Labor Day. I was on my m/c so I couldn't snap any pics at the time and we didn't have time for me to stop. We went through about 30 miles of Hwy. 32. Stopped in Peebles and then road down 32, and got off on 23N and went through Piketon. Came back through a different route or I'd tried to take pics on the way back. We like to mix it up a bit on our rides.

 

[rsd1200]

I've been wondering if the difference in the number of shots per victim was not really about them and more about the skill levels of the shooters. The investigators and most everyone else believe there were at least two shooters. It could be that one killer was a good enough shot or just steadier nerves/more experience to only need one or two shots, while the other was either just not as good a shot and/or more nervous or inexperienced.

From the beginning the focus has been more on why was this victim shot more than that one. Was it their involvement in whatever put them in the crosshairs, or their relationship to the killers, etc, etc. But what if none of that was the deciding factor?

It could also explain why KR was shot once in the head/eye -- he was the only victim who was alone and his location was furthest away, so either he was killed by the "better" shot, or the other one was less nervous/rushed with only one victim in a more isolated location.

Just trying to look at it from a different angle.

That's worth a thought. What if both CR1 and GR were killed at the same time but (and two types of shell casings were found there according to GR's father) GR was killed by the more confident shooter, and CR1 was killed by the other, and maybe CR1 was possibly even shot by the more confident shooter, as well. The less confident shooter may not have been able to stop him on his own.

 

[glf]

I was thinking that clothes floating in a river could easily get snagged on something. The only thing I ever lost in the lake were my glasses! Luckily I had the old pair at home, because I'm blind as a bat!

 

[rsd1200]

I was thinking that clothes floating in a river could easily get snagged on something. The only thing I ever lost in the lake were my glasses! Luckily I had the old pair at home, because I'm blind as a bat!

It probably could, but after being submerged in water, it would probably be difficult to get good DNA off of the clothing. How would they even know if the clothing found, was the clothing worn by the murderers? There's probably all kinds of stuff in that river. Weapons could most likely be matched via ballistics, using the bullets retrieved from the scene, though (if they could even locate the weapons in the river.). My s/o is a diver. It does not interest me at all though. In most rivers and lakes, that we are near, the visibility is rather poor most times.

 

[Daisy47]

I don't see in the article where it says HR was the person who called?

It doesn't. The article clearly states the cab driver called. Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant I'd be scared if I was the cab driver.


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[jpo74]

You know, I have another question to propose. 32 shots going off in the night or early morning? The amount of sound that had to be coming from Chris Sr's place if he put up a fight. How did no one hear anything? Other people lived around them, you would think someone heard something (besides the hunter) was everyone around them deep sleeper's? I know people were used to the dogs barking and the chicken's making noise, but how could everyone miss screaming or yelling? If they didn't hear anything was there a silencer of some kind on the guns? Were people gagged?

if the killer(s) didnt use any type of silencers for the guns, those neighbors had to have heard those shots. and i just know they are afraid to say something because they probably have an inklin on who had murdered them.

 

[hec60504]

I think there are at least 2-3 subjects; they used suppressors. I also believe that the subjects were completely covered in disposable garments, had coverings on their shoes, and obviously wore gloves. Head shots aren't necessarily that bloody until after the person is struck - then the blood literally pours out until the heart completely stops...

 

[Dudly]

Another bust in Montgomery County. First I recall shatter being mentioned in a bust.

http://wdtn.com/2016/09/07/nearly-2...tgomery-co-traffic-stop/?cid=facebook_WDTN-TV

 

[glf]

RSD, do you think it's a possibility that they never had divers look in the river, or maybe they only looked in a designated area, and just didn't find anything they thought could be of importance?

 

[mamamumbles]

I think there are at least 2-3 subjects; they used suppressors. I also believe that the subjects were completely covered in disposable garments, had coverings on their shoes, and obviously wore gloves. Head shots aren't necessarily that bloody until after the person is struck - then the blood literally pours out until the heart completely stops...

Agreed. I have thought since day one they wore shoe and clothing covers.

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[ilovepierre]

if the killer(s) didnt use any type of silencers for the guns, those neighbors had to have heard those shots. and i just know they are afraid to say something because they probably have an inklin on who had murdered them.

Not necessarily.
These shots all occurred inside the homes.
Even if the shots could be heard from outside, they wouldn't have been as loud as we would think.
The hills, the woods, other buildings in the yards would have bounced the sound around and made it harder for someone to pinpoint where exactly the sound came from.

And IIRC, turkey hunting season had started.
People could have easily associated the gun shots to turkey hunters.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

RSD, do you think it's a possibility that they never had divers look in the river, or maybe they only looked in a designated area, and just didn't find anything they thought could be of importance?

I don't think they've ever looked. The media would have been all over it. I don't know that for sure though However, with this crime being so high profile, if search team divers went into the river, someone would have reported on a dive team search, even if they hadn't disclosed their reason.