OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #23

[becky3066]

Even if this was killers from the outside, that doesn't mean it didn't originate locally. Maybe someone the Rhodens angered knows a guy who knows a guy etc etc. I think that's probably more likely than a Mexican cartel ordered hit.

 

[rsd1200]

Anything's possible. But what I keep coming back to is the scope. 8 people in 4 locations. That's just mind blowing. Kept the children alive, too. It's all just so bizarre.

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That's why I lean to someone who knows them, has been in those homes, knows those properties, knows their habits. KR is the death that convinces me of that more than anything. His daughter says he slept with a firearm near him, he had a dog in there that had to be restrained by a family member who it knew (DS, who visited KR often), yet he was shot one time, in the head, while in his bed. That, to me, says he knew that person, and was comfortable with them being in his camper, enough to climb into bed with them in there, or they had a key. They even knew where his cameras were at, and KR lived off of the highway, if someone had come snooping around there prior to his murder, his cameras would have caught them, or his dog would have alerted. His dog is the only one that it was said that the officers had any trouble with, and they were strangers to that dog.

 

[Cryptic]

Very good point about staying undetected in the area! I think these killers, while they may have done some local prep work or reconnaissance prior, came in to do the job and hauled *advertiser censored** out of town.

I think that is a very good assessment. They were brought into the area to accomplish a very specific "mission". The attackers did not get cold feet prior to the attacks, or get un-nerved by the killings and stop the attacks half way through

Likewise, they knew how to move fast and gain the momentum despite some of the victims probably being half paranoid and having access to guns or keeping vicious dogs. When attacking, they had the skills and experience to be precise (apparently no "spray and pray" type gun fire). Rather, the victims were identified, then killed with well aimed fire.

As they are not from the area, they fly under the radar of the local rumor mill, long term memories about who once did what to whom, what local was acting strange or unusual after the attacks (and I bet a certain number of the residents have nothing better to do than watch who comes and goes down what dirt roads or who left what house at what time) etc.

 

[Cryptic]

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That's why I lean to someone who knows them, has been in those homes, knows those properties, knows their habits. KR is the death that convinces me of that more than anything. His daughter says he slept with a firearm near him, he had a dog in there that had to be restrained by a family member who it knew (DS, who visited KR often), yet he was shot one time, in the head, while in his bed.

I just cant see a local killer(s) being able to evade the rural rumor mill, local long term memories about wrongs, threats, ongoing or past personality conflicts, bored neighbors noticing irregularities etc.

 

[becky3066]

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That's why I lean to someone who knows them, has been in those homes, knows those properties, knows their habits. KR is the death that convinces me of that more than anything. His daughter says he slept with a firearm near him, he had a dog in there that had to be restrained by a family member who it knew (DS, who visited KR often), yet he was shot one time, in the head, while in his bed. That, to me, says he knew that person, and was comfortable with them being in his camper, enough to climb into bed with them in there, or they had a key. They even knew where his cameras were at, and KR lived off of the highway, if someone had come snooping around there prior to his murder, his cameras would have caught them, or his dog would have alerted. His dog is the only one that it was said that the officers had any trouble with, and they were strangers to that dog.

I think you make some very valid points. Even with the theory of outside killers, I think it's extremely possible that they had a family member or someone familiar with the victims who helped by providing details beforehand about the dogs, house layout, cameras, etc.

 

[rsd1200]

I just cant see a local killer(s) being able to evade the rural rumor mill, local long term memories about wrongs, threats, ongoing or past personality conflicts, bored neighbors noticing irregularities etc.

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People are scared. Rumors mean nothing to LE. Reader has said that he knows that people he's interviewed have been untruthful. Also, why the need to shoot that many head-shots on each victim, if they were true hired professionals? That says anger/hate/vengeance to me. I think that CR1's family was the main target. GR was in the wrong place, and I've got a couple of theories on KR, but one, is that he'd know for sure who killed the others, so he had to go too.

 

[becky3066]

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People are scared. Rumors mean nothing to LE. Reader has said that he knows that people he's interviewed have been untruthful. Also, why the need to shoot that many head-shots on each victim, if they were true hired professionals? That says anger/hate/vengeance to me. I think that CR1's family was the main target. GR was in the wrong place, and I've got a couple of theories on KR, but one, is that he'd know for sure who killed the others, so he had to go too.

Or it just means they wanted to be sure the victims were dead. Does anyone know if the military trains soldiers to shoot multiple times?

 

[rsd1200]

I think you make some very valid points. Even with the theory of outside killers, I think it's extremely possible that they had a family member or someone familiar with the victims who helped by providing details beforehand about the dogs, house layout, cameras, etc.

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DR was still awake at 12:53 a.m., based on her stomach contents, and that of the others in her home, they were likely killed not too long after that. There were no signs of forced entry at any of the homes. It is said that most of the victims were in bed, asleep, but I think that DR may have let them in at her place. It's very possible that CR1 and GR did as well. I don't think any of them saw this coming though. This is "deeper than drugs", loosely quoted from Reader.

 

[becky3066]

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DR was still awake at 12:53 a.m., based on her stomach contents, and that of the others in her home, they were likely killed not too long after that. There were no signs of forced entry at any of the homes. It is said that most of the victims were in bed, asleep, but I think that DR may have let them in at her place. It's very possible that CR1 and GR did as well. I don't think any of them saw this coming though. This is "deeper than drugs", loosely quoted from Reader.

So what would LE consider deeper than drugs? Money? Inheritance? Land dispute?

 

[rsd1200]

So what would LE consider deeper than drugs? Money? Inheritance? Land dispute?

That's the million dollar question.

 

[becky3066]

That's the million dollar question.

Haha! And I'm sure LE isn't too eager to provide that info to the public. So I guess we'll just keep on keeping on.

 

[rsd1200]

Or it just means they wanted to be sure the victims were dead. Does anyone know if the military trains soldiers to shoot multiple times?

KR was shot once.
Two of the victims were shot twice,
GR was shot three times,
one victim was shot four times,
two were shot five times,
and iirc, CR1 was shot nine times in the head and torso. GR's father also said that there were two different types of shell casings left at the trailer. I tend to believe him. The difference in the number of shots to the victims has also kind of led me to believe that one was a more confident, experienced, shooter, and the 2nd, a less confident, experienced, shooter.

Just theory number 1,009.

 

[Cryptic]

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People are scared. Rumors mean nothing to LE.

Rumors mean nothing in trials. To LE, rumors can be important as they can point them in the right direction. Once the resources of LE is focused on the perpetrator, it is almost always "Game Over"- and usually relatively quickly. As for the multiple head shots, I think the core observation is "head shots". Even a professional hit team may use uneeded head shots to ensure that the victims are dead.

I think you make some very valid points. Even with the theory of outside killers, I think it's extremely possible that they had a family member or someone familiar with the victims who helped by providing details beforehand about the dogs, house layout, cameras, etc.

Maybe a local assosciate from their commercial drug business? The assosciate knocks on the door, the victims are somewhat used to him coming by to discuss the marijuana growing. As a result, they open the door and are over whelmed by a hit squad?

So what would LE consider deeper than drugs? Money? Inheritance? Land dispute?

All possible. I am thinking though that a land dispute would be known to the local community. As for money and inhertances, none of the victims were wealthy.

I could see such a dispute leading to the deaths of say person "A" and "B". But even factoring in that nominal sums of money can be a small fortune in Appalachia, I cant easily see somebody targeting a whole family over a such an inheritance. Likewise, the possibility of an inheritance would also be known.

If it is local, I am thinking it must have been something that would lead the perpertrators to conclude that the entire family was their enemy. Honor violations could lead to that conclusion- especially if the family members "backed each other". Such honor feuds were once common in Appalachia. But even then, the scale of these attacks would be unusual for even say, 1890.

 

[rsd1200]

Rumors mean nothing in trials. To LE, rumors can be important as they can point them in the right direction. Once the resources of LE is focused on the perpetrator, it is almost always "Game Over"- and usually relatively quickly.

I think the core observation is "head shots". Even a professional hit team may use uneeded head shots to ensure that the victims are dead.

Rumors can point them to someone but w/o evidence, all the rumors in the world aren't going to help them. They need facts. There's lots of rumors. Everything from BBL to child custody to Mexican Cartel to Demo Derby retaliation to CR2 being slapped, but they're of no use w/o facts. This family had lots of drama in their lives to stir rumor mills. If they're a pro, I just don't think they'd need four or five shots, up close, in their beds, with them asleep. I can see a double tap, if they were pro, not four and five though, close range head shots. That speaks inexperience to me.

 

[rsd1200]

Rumors mean nothing in trials. To LE, rumors can be important as they can point them in the right direction. Once the resources of LE is focused on the perpetrator, it is almost always "Game Over"- and usually relatively quickly. As for the multiple head shots, I think the core observation is "head shots". Even a professional hit team may use uneeded head shots to ensure that the victims are dead.


Maybe a local assosciate from their commercial drug business? The assosciate knocks on the door, the victims are somewhat used to him coming by to discuss the marijuana growing. As a result, they open the door and are over whelmed by a hit squad?

All possible. I am thinking though that a land dispute would be known to the local community. As for money and inhertances, none of the victims were wealthy.

I could see such a dispute leading to the deaths of say person "A" and "B". But even factoring in that nominal sums of money can be a small fortune in Appalachia, I cant easily see somebody targeting a whole family over a such an inheritance. Likewise, the possibility of an inheritance would also be known.

If it is local, I am thinking it must have been something that would lead the perpertrators to conclude that the entire family was their enemy. Honor violations could lead to that conclusion- especially if the family members "backed each other". Such honor feuds were once common in Appalachia. But even then, the scale of these attacks would be unusual for even say, 1890.

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Hillbilly justice still happens in Appalachia.

 

[becky3066]

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Hillbilly justice still happens in Appalachia.

Does that usually include the women, too? I don't understand why the 3 females were killed. They all seemed to be mothers, I know DR worked too. I wonder what they did to deserve this.

 

[becky3066]

So what would LE consider deeper than drugs? Money? Inheritance? Land dispute?

I've seen speculation that CR1 had a large sum of money in his trailer. That opens up any number of possibilities.

 

[Canaille]

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Agree. There are also avid hunters. They know how to be patient, and quiet. With the world at our fingertips through a simple Google search, there is a lot a person can learn about covering their tracks too. This could have been in the planning for weeks, or maybe several months.

It's still nagging at my brain that someone had said he felt this case had been in the planning for at least a year. That is driving me crazy that I can no longer find any link to back it up. So, therefore, I will say that it's my theory that it's been in the planning for at least a year.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the murder(s) turn out to be someone we least expect.

 

[Canaille]

What's deeper than drugs? Family, in my opinion.

 

[jk204]

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That's why I lean to someone who knows them, has been in those homes, knows those properties, knows their habits. KR is the death that convinces me of that more than anything. His daughter says he slept with a firearm near him, he had a dog in there that had to be restrained by a family member who it knew (DS, who visited KR often), yet he was shot one time, in the head, while in his bed. That, to me, says he knew that person, and was comfortable with them being in his camper, enough to climb into bed with them in there, or they had a key. They even knew where his cameras were at, and KR lived off of the highway, if someone had come snooping around there prior to his murder, his cameras would have caught them, or his dog would have alerted. His dog is the only one that it was said that the officers had any trouble with, and they were strangers to that dog.

Me too. IMO, the answer can't be far from him. I often read that KR is the odd man. I really don't see it that way. KR is family like all the others and probably shared some friends too with CR and FR.