OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[rsd1200]

Have a question..(and thank all of you for your willingness to answer stupid questions!) JM's case is going to a grand jury, which my understanding is, grand juries decide if there is indeed a case to be tried, correct? I know know much about law. He was arrested for basically destroying a gps system..this requires a grand jury? Yes?! How lost am I? I DON'T know much about law, big typo.

It's not the value of the gps, it was the "act". I think they wanted him to find it, and do exactly what he did. I heard that he found it while he was working on his exhaust. Odd timing that his exhaust needed work. Of course this whole case has odd timing for everything surrounding it. The removal, and then destruction, of the gps, were both felonies, so that can go to the Grand Jury. The Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich, if they so choose, as the old saying goes. The Grand Jury merely decides if there is probable cause to prosecute the defendant, for the felony crime(s). It's not a "normal" trial. There's no judge, just the Grand Jury, and the man who runs it, the Prosecutor (which is why the old saying about the ham sandwich). If the prosecutor wants it then it will likely go to trial. If there's someone in the legal system on here who can explain better, or if I'm incorrect, please chime in. IANAL, but I think that I could play one on t.v. at this point, after having navigated the legal system for several years.

 

[OsoTejano]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...assacre-more-search-details-emerge/101713414/

No, it didn't. It stated the truck was used in the commission of a crime of aggravated murder or was in the possession of a person who intended to use it in the commission of said crime. Doesn't specifically mention Rhoden murders.

It's rather vague and catch-all, most likely used to convince a judge to grant permission for the SW and meet the guidelines for issuing one.

This whole GPS thing stinks to high heaven from what has transpired.
It seems that the warrant to place the GPS was done to provoke JM to do what he did. For all we know, the truck at some point in it's 20 year life may have been used by a suspect in another murder.

This is an LE tactic to sweat JM pure and simple. Hopefully there is some holding LE accountable if they are barking up the wrong tree.

JMO


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[Yvettea]

Prosecutor dismisses charges against brother of Pike Co. Massacre victim

ETA:The move keeps the evidence and other information investigators used to get the warrant for the tracker secret for the time being.
http://local12.com/news/local/case-...ounty-massacre-to-go-straight-to-a-grand-jury

Sorry. Don't know how I missed this being posted

 

[Dudly]

Prosecutor dismisses charges against brother of Pike Co. Massacre victim

ETA:The move keeps the evidence and other information investigators used to get the warrant for the tracker secret for the time being.
http://local12.com/news/local/case-...ounty-massacre-to-go-straight-to-a-grand-jury

Sorry. Don't know how I missed this being posted

Of course it has to be kept a secret. What isn't a secret?

 

[Bootsctr]

Quotes function seems to be messed up.

Thanks for the link Han.

WoW! Alrighty then. Guess I should have seen that coming. JM looks a lot different to me w/o the beard. Wonder how long he has had that beard?

He has a lawyer: James Boulger (reminds me of Whitey Bulger). He "assumed they had evidence to support the arrest" and was prepared to go forward with it today. But noooooooo assistant prosecuting attorney asked that the charges be dismissed. That way everything remains sealed for Grand Jury.

Junk would not say whether investigators consider Manley more than a witness or whether he plans to present the case to Grand Jury on THURSDAY!

JM's lawyer Boulger is probably going to challenge the results of the lie detector test (as well he should)!!!!

More charges could be forthcoming.

JM lost his job that he has had for years because of the publicity. WoW!

It's all at the link provided by Han: http://local12.com/news/local/case-...ounty-massacre-to-go-straight-to-a-grand-jury

 

[Bootsctr]

I thought LM was given a copy of the SW when the cops came to take off the GPS tracker? Maybe I'm thinking wrong. The bombing is throwing me off. Hearing there were nail bombs. Prayers for all!

 

[Renee110]

I think that he's saying that drugs as the reason, in and of itself, was not why they were killed. Did trying to find their killers, and why the R family was killed, open up a Pandora's box? Yep. None of those may have been the actual reason the Rs and HHG were murdered though. My top theory has always been mountain justice. Quite possibly inner-family. Someone in that family has done something so harsh, that it has been seen as unforgivable. They didn't trust LE, or couldn't go to LE, to take care of the matter so they handled it themselves. When this first happened, I ran this by my kid who lives further up in the hills, and my parents. All of us from the region. Both said the same thing that I did. Someone in the R family did someone so foul, and it could very well be family, that they sought revenge. Now what that foul was, idk. But mountain justice is still a thing. All of us could be wrong, too.

I wouldn't call it Mountain Justice exactly, because there are plenty of people that believe in vigilante justice, but I do agree that this could be someone(s) idea of justice. The fact that a whole family was killed says to me that they all paid a price regardless of whether all committed the "crime" or not. Everyone with that name is gone. The fact that limitless innocent children were spared also says to me this is personal and revenge. A cartel or drug-crazed person etc wouldn't spare babies.... To shoot and kill mothers with children in bed beside them and miss and spare the babies... They were very careful to do that. Really weird to me. Heartless and cold on one hand, and then forgiving and merciful on the other. Shiver.


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[Renee110]

I still believe the murders are a result of a festering custody issue with other underlying issues.

I used to not share this idea but I've thought and thought about why the WHOLE family???? And why were children spared. I guess if someone wanted full custody they might think the whole family including a grandmother, grandfather, uncle, aunt and uncle and step aunt oh and of course the mother needs to be gone so the only blood relatives left are the paternal father, and paternal grandparents. I'm sick to my stomach thinking about this and thinking of where poor HR's oldest daughter is. And sicker even still when I hear that HR's ex has been allowed to leave the state. I am really really becoming so sad and disheartened with what the United States have come to.


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[Bootsctr]

I used to not share this idea but I've thought and thought about why the WHOLE family???? And why were children spared. I guess if someone wanted full custody they might think the whole family including a grandmother, grandfather, uncle, aunt and uncle and step aunt oh and of course the mother needs to be gone so the only blood relatives left are the paternal father, and paternal grandparents. I'm sick to my stomach thinking about this and thinking of where poor HR's oldest daughter is. And sicker even still when I hear that HR's ex has been allowed to leave the state. I am really really becoming so sad and disheartened with what the United States have come to.


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I had forgotten the R's were wiped out entirely. That is shocking! There just seems to be a very religious overtone to these murders to me. Keep thinking of a Bible verse, "suffer little children to come unto me."

If 8 family members being slaughtered doesn't warrant a come-to-God, life-altering moment in one's life, I don't know what else would.

 

[IceIce9]

I can't find the post to reply with quotes but someone recently mentioned the odd circumstance of three people changing plans that night. D.S. not staying with KR, HG's sister not staying with her and KR not staying with HR. Assuming nothing hinkey involved, I can not imagine the survivor's guilt they each must have felt, or still feel along with the relief of being spared.

Also JW picking up his daughter one day earlier than planned. That one really makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

 

[IceIce9]

I had forgotten the R's were wiped out entirely. That is shocking! There just seems to be a very religious overtone to these murders to me. Keep thinking of a Bible verse, "suffer little children to come unto me."

.

Speaking of a Bible verse, I keep thinking about the Bible account of Achan, in the book of Joshua. Achan, his wife and children were all stoned to death due to his committing of a sin.

 

[Renee110]

Ok, I waited until last December to get my first smart phone. :shame: Before that, I had one similar to the kind that LM was holding in one of his early interviews. Our service is spotty here at home, so I never felt the need until someone close by had a health care crisis. Out in the hills around Union Hill Rd, and the area, the reception is poor, too. The Verizon guy said ours is a problem from being down in a valley and surrounded by trees. He said lots of trees (being in a large forested area) can interfere with cell phone signals.

Even with the smart phone, I usually have to step out on the deck when using it to keep calls from dropping. When I leave the neighborhood and go up the hill to the main road, I start getting pings for messages that were sent hours or days ago. Can almost guarantee the same for people who live around Peebles/Piketon.

ETA: Just saw a tweet from Chris Graves. She said though the hearing was for 1 pm, his case hasn't been called yet. I'm guessing there are others called before his.

I don't blame you for not having a smartphone before now. If it doesn't work when you are at home and you don't get messages etc until you leave home.... It's not worth the cost of the phone plus the charges of the usage and just having a "smart" phone. If the cell phone provider doesn't have the necessary towers to bring the coverage and speed necessary to make your phone work, why pay for something that doesn't work all of the time? And don't listen to its the hills and the trees... That is bullcrap. I live in a holler and there are hills and trees everywhere. I have Verizon and have great coverage. My husband HAD AT&T and he couldn't even get a signal for phone call let alone Internet. AT&T tried to blame it on the hill and trees but when confronted with the fact that Verizon had perfect service here they let him out of his contract. It was a fight let me tell you. They just haven't bothered to put towers out here and then blame it on the terrain. Not only did they let him out of contract but they refunded his first 6 months of living here, having no coverage and telling him there was coverage here.


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[MVLM]

BBM--you have asked this several times, and it's been answered several times.

JW was NOT the only person to retain custody of a Rhoden offspring. JW and CRo each have custody of their children. In JW's case, SW. In CRo's case, BR. They are those children's surviving parents. It has nothing to do with power; it has to do with law.

In the case of RR, FR and HHG are deceased. RR does not have a living parent, and it was determined that there were no legal documents stipulating custody upon the death of his parents. Therefore, the courts were bound to determine who would gain custody of RR.

In the case of KR, her only proven parent is deceased. Because the identity of her father was unknown, she was also taken into state's custody.

It's law, not conspiracy.

It doesn't work like that in my county either. I have to wonder since he was the only person who was able to retain custody of one of the Rhodes' children (the others were sent to foster care because they might be in danger?) that he KNEW he had some special "power" in Pike County.

 

[Renee110]

Sounds very possible. The secrecy involved in this investigation is beyond anything I've ever seen. What do you think is driving the secrecy and delays?

1 Possible ongoing undercover investigation into organized crime in the area (drugs, MJ, car theft, money laundering, etc.) Keeping the case quiet until they're ready to lower the boom. May have undercover agents at risk.

2 Political - Case is taking longer to solve than they thought, is getting touchy. Sweep it under the rug until after the 2018 election and give the guvner time to re-establish his PR campaign for 2020

3 Boss Hog - Keeping evidence under wraps and applying pressure to pin it on local underlings in local criminal networks to avoid exposing any local powerful interests who are part of the underground crime network

4 Combination of any of the above or something else?????

ETA: Regarding friends on social media, some of it may be the old "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" rationale?

Small town is in my opinion driving this train. Woodbury Tennessee is where I live and if I were to tell you what I've seen with my eyes and what I know you would call me a lyer and say I'm on drugs.

True story from 25 years ago. I was going to go on a trail ride with my friend Julie. It was Fall. Our friend Tony who was born here told us if people came out of the woods just ignore them and keep riding our horses. Don't make eye contact and don't respond if they speak just keep riding. If they throw things or try to grab us just keep riding and we were like WTF???? He said "It's just the Manson Family. This is Harvest Time and they will be out. Just keep riding and ignore them. I said The Manson WHAT???? He said a chapter of Charles Manson Family lived here and it was Harvest Time. Their vegetables were ready. And I said WHAT??? Tony told me that this family only came out when their vegetables were ready and the Philadelphia Family financially funded them. We did not go ride, obviously... And if you read Helter Skelter, a few pages from the end there is a paragraph that states, and I quote verbatim because I memorized it..., "When Charles Manson is parolled, he will go home to the gently rolling hills of Cannon County, Tennessee, where he will be parolled. I will NEVER FORGET that. Ever. There is another story I have but will never tell because I've been threatened. So I have no trouble at all believing in mountain justice etc... It is real and it happens. Those that believe in justice and believe the News.... Bless your soul.


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[amauet1]

Of course it has to be kept a secret. What isn't a secret?

Exactly, so why do we the public know about the raid on the Wagner's property's? And this gps on JM's truck? They wanted everyone to know about it. I don't understand JM being called a "witness" either. Witness to what? Finding the bodies, seeing something at the crime scene, knowing something about the crimes, being part of the crime? We know about the text, the custody thing with the Wagners, etc. from LM getting mad about them arresting JM. Haven't seen or heard about any kind of order being filed againest LM for saying all of that. So why aren't others talking. Something about how we have received any info on this case from day one is messed up.

 

[amauet1]

Quotes function seems to be messed up.

Thanks for the link Han.

WoW! Alrighty then. Guess I should have seen that coming. JM looks a lot different to me w/o the beard. Wonder how long he has had that beard?

He has a lawyer: James Boulger (reminds me of Whitey Bulger). He "assumed they had evidence to support the arrest" and was prepared to go forward with it today. But noooooooo assistant prosecuting attorney asked that the charges be dismissed. That way everything remains sealed for Grand Jury.

Junk would not say whether investigators consider Manley more than a witness or whether he plans to present the case to Grand Jury on THURSDAY!

JM's lawyer Boulger is probably going to challenge the results of the lie detector test (as well he should)!!!!

More charges could be forthcoming.

JM lost his job that he has had for years because of the publicity. WoW!

It's all at the link provided by Han: http://local12.com/news/local/case-...ounty-massacre-to-go-straight-to-a-grand-jury

c

Yes he lost his job, because they may not want the public to associate him. with their company. So how did they bail him out? Who put up 8,000.00? Who's paying the lawyer?

 

[Jennifer17]

c

Yes he lost his job, because they may not want the public to associate him. with their company. So how did they bail him out? Who put up 8,000.00? Who's paying the lawyer?

That is pretty cruel. Innocent until proven guilty and all. $8,000 is not a lot of money to raise. They could do $4,000, so only had to raise the other 4,000. Relatives and friends pitching in.

 

[Jennifer17]

And that tracking device thingo, almost seems like entrapment to me. If they think that he killed or had killed his sister and family, why don't they just charge him with it. It seems that they are really harassing this man.

 

[rsd1200]

I am beginning to believe it's about drug trafficking on the Highway 23 corridor and LE is trying to keep it under wraps so no one else gets killed. And to keep from tipping off all the members of the ring.

The Highway 23 Drug task force went with LE to search the horse ranch. Why did they go there if it is not about drug trafficking? That s what they do, investigate trafficking on the 23 corridor. No other reason for them to be.

So did SWAT. They were anticipating some serious resistance. Maybe the AK47 kind.

Reader said drugs likely not involved. I agree that they may not have been directly involved, as in CR and KR dealing or transporting the drugs.

But CR1 and KR could have been letting the runners stash some loads of drugs on their properties for safe keeping until they were transported on.

One thing we have yet to discuss. Why was the property on Peterson RD in JW and GW4's name? GW3 and AW lived there. I cannot believe that property did not belong to the parents. If it didn't, where did the parents live prior to moving in with their sons?. I could see the parents living with their sons if they were in their 80's but they look to be in their 40's.

Was the property in the son's names because their credit rating wasn't good enough to finance it? Because they didn't have the provable income to finance it? To circumvent the RICO Act?

I must say that parents in their forties living in their son's home is unusual. It is usually the other way around, the sons living in the parents home.

BBM
We don't know for sure what the living


arrangements were, recently, but I think that originally the home was purchased by the brothers for them, their respective girlfriends, and children, to live there together.


Neither of the boys are boys, they're adults. JW was at least 20 when he bought that home, and he had a job. Both boy seem like workers. The Peterson Rd. home is not as large as it looks either if you check the pva. If they all were staying in there, it was probably fairly crowded, especially for a married set of parents, two grown men, and two young children. They could probably make it work though if need be. There was enough property that if one of them wanted their own home, later on, that they could build one.


HMR has a post on her FB, on Nov. 2013 that has her status updated to "Married to JW". A poster asked When??? HMR responded that they weren't married, but they may as well be.


By the time she was expecting S, who was probably born around mid-year of 2014, they'd been together for three years. JW & GW would have known that they were going to become fathers, well before the purchase date of the farm on Peterson. I think becoming fathers, pooling their money on the farm, and their kids and gfs moving in and being one big happy family was the dream in the beginning and then something happened. Idk what happened but it probably started around mid to late July of 2015.

 

[rsd1200]

Right now I am leaning towards they probably aren't in any danger. I've heard it said many times before that it appeared there was one target and the rest were killed because of what they knew. I always took that to mean, if just one was killed, when LE asked the rest if knew of any fights or or arguments that could have led up to this, none would have hesitated to answer honestly and point the investigation in the right direction. The same does not appear to be true of BJM or JM. Even if they were not involved in any way, I believe at the very least they have a very good idea who was. And no doubt, whoever was involved, is going to be a relative in some way. I occasionally volunteer to help adopted persons find there bio families. The Appellations are notoriously difficult cases to work. Everyone in the area is related to each other by blood or marriage. If you go back a couple of generations, Every family had a dozen kids. And all of their kids had a dozen and so on. So lets say I am person X born in 1920. One of my maternal cousins married one of my paternal cousins. My niece married one of my husbands cousin's, My sister's brother in law married my husband's sister. Fast forward to 2016, and you have families who are connected ten different ways. So no matter how you slice it, if the person is local, it is going to be a relative of some form. If the M's are not being forthright, and they are not involved, then I think it's possible that the person or persons who did do this, have be somehow close to them.

I think DS is probably not involved but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he helped himself to money or stash which may explain a rift.
When I saw who stayed in contact with JW I thought it was strange, too. Maybe they don't want to lose contact in hopes of maintaining some form of loose contact with S? I know SM doesn't ever paint a complete picture but I did notice that DR seemed to be close with JM and AM but not so much with BJM.

BBM

Or KM.