OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[Dudly]

I think that he's saying that drugs as the reason, in and of itself, was not why they were killed. Did trying to find their killers, and why the R family was killed, open up a Pandora's box? Yep. None of those may have been the actual reason the Rs and HHG were murdered though. My top theory has always been mountain justice. Quite possibly inner-family. Someone in that family has done something so harsh, that it has been seen as unforgivable. They didn't trust LE, or couldn't go to LE, to take care of the matter so they handled it themselves. When this first happened, I ran this by my kid who lives further up in the hills, and my parents. All of us from the region. Both said the same thing that I did. Someone in the R family did someone so foul, and it could very well be family, that they sought revenge. Now what that foul was, idk. But mountain justice is still a thing. All of us could be wrong, too.

On the other hand, someone may have done something so foul that they could never let it be told and made sure anyone who might know could never tell....

 

[rsd1200]

I remember the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire very well. I was in middle school in Ohio, and it was a huge and incredibly tragic story.

The other big story Ohio/Kentucky story I remember from college days in Ohio was the school bus crash that killed 27 children returning from King's Island. This was terrible because the victims were trapped inside the bus which then caught on fire. Many changes to improve school bus safety came about after this tragedy.

The bus crash was just horrific. Remember that one. We call it the Carrollton bus crash on this side of line. It also created a lot more awareness of driving under the influence and laws re; dwi.

 

[rsd1200]

Ok, I waited until last December to get my first smart phone. :shame: Before that, I had one similar to the kind that LM was holding in one of his early interviews. Our service is spotty here at home, so I never felt the need until someone close by had a health care crisis. Out in the hills around Union Hill Rd, and the area, the reception is poor, too. The Verizon guy said ours is a problem from being down in a valley and surrounded by trees. He said lots of trees (being in a large forested area) can interfere with cell phone signals.

Even with the smart phone, I usually have to step out on the deck when using it to keep calls from dropping. When I leave the neighborhood and go up the hill to the main road, I start getting pings for messages that were sent hours or days ago. Can almost guarantee the same for people who live around Peebles/Piketon.

ETA: Just saw a tweet from Chris Graves. She said though the hearing was for 1 pm, his case hasn't been called yet. I'm guessing there are others called before his.

I'm in the foothills but can drive just a few miles east to pick up either grandchild and the signal is gone. Where my son lives, they have to put theirs on speaker, and prop it in a window sill to be able to try and use theirs. They usually give up and go to the pull off down the road, b/c they can get a signal there, and there's usually a few other folks there. He had a friend from a big city, up north, to visit and they'd never been to this region. He was driving him up to their house and had to stop and let him throw up b/c of the curves. In short, he was amazed at the no reception, forests, hollers, and winding roads.

 

[Betty P]

Chris Graves tweets


State wants to dismiss the case for direct indictments

Defense: Manley has a right to a hearing

Judge agrees with prosecutor, case will go directly to Grand Jury

Longest wait for shortest hearing

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves

Well that's that. State is shutting the case up behind closed doors again for who knows how many months.

State's insistence on keeping any details about this case from the public is highly unusual. What are they afraid of? If, as they sometimes lead us to believe, its just a bunch of poor recknecks and mountain justice, there would be no need to drag the investigation out so long and keep it hidden. It would be solved by now and the perps would be going to trial.

This is something much bigger and they're trying to handle it with kid gloves.

ETA 2: Does sending it to the grand jury also put a halt to the lawsuit over the autopsy reports? A decision on those cases is due soon.

 

[rsd1200]

On the other hand, someone may have done something so foul that they could never let it be told and made sure anyone who might know could never tell....

Absolutely.

 

[Betty P]

Absolutely.

Hints? I'm clueless on that one.

 

[rsd1200]

JMO, it could be than one motive. Custody as the "precipitating" factor, the problem that set it off, but before that a long-simmering animosity (predisposing factor) related to other illegal activity - competing interests in MJ trade or Chris Sr.'s knowledge of other illegal activities, but refusing to participate, concern that he was talking to LE, etc.

Chris Sr may have been a burr under someone's saddle for a while and when the custody fight came up, it was a justification to get rid of him and his family. Two birds with one stone, so to speak. "Mountain justice" is something you can call it, but people have to have a motive for the justice they're seeking. A really risky thing to do, so it probably took some planning and possibly the hiring of pros or semi-pros to do it.

Narcing was my second top theory and someone saw that the s*** was about to roll downhill. Could be about custody but I find it odd that the Rs and Ms and even the Gs are all still friends on the JW sm page. They may just want to keep track of his page but they've all bailed on DS.

 

[rsd1200]

Hints? I'm clueless on that one.

Say I did something and you bore witness to this while you were practically living at my house w/your b/f. I don't think much of it b/c I think that you're part of the family, until you're NOT. You go home and tell your family some of the things you've born witness to. The people who formerly welcomed you into their homes, now fear you.

 

[Betty P]

Narcing was my second top theory and someone saw that the s*** was about to roll downhill. Could be about custody but I find it odd that the Rs and Ms and even the Gs are all still friends on the JW sm page. They may just want to keep track of his page but they've all bailed on DS.

Sounds very possible. The secrecy involved in this investigation is beyond anything I've ever seen. What do you think is driving the secrecy and delays?

1 Possible ongoing undercover investigation into organized crime in the area (drugs, MJ, car theft, money laundering, etc.) Keeping the case quiet until they're ready to lower the boom. May have undercover agents at risk.

2 Political - Case is taking longer to solve than they thought, is getting touchy. Sweep it under the rug until after the 2018 election and give the guvner time to re-establish his PR campaign for 2020

3 Boss Hog - Keeping evidence under wraps and applying pressure to pin it on local underlings in local criminal networks to avoid exposing any local powerful interests who are part of the underground crime network

4 Combination of any of the above or something else?????

ETA: Regarding friends on social media, some of it may be the old "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" rationale?

 

[IceIce9]

I felt from the start that KR's murder was committed by a different person than the others.

I think it is likely that someone knew he had cash and wanted to rob him, or else had a grudge against him.

The timeline of death would be very interesting to know, as I suspect KR was killed hours after the killers of the other 7 were long gone from the area.

I also feel that DS's statement and actions don't ring true.

My opinion only.

 

[rsd1200]

Sounds very possible. The secrecy involved in this investigation is beyond anything I've ever seen. What do you think is driving the secrecy and delays?

1 Possible ongoing undercover investigation into organized crime in the area (drugs, MJ, car theft, money laundering, etc.) Keeping the case quiet until they're read to lower the boom

2 Political - Case is taking longer to solve than they thought, is getting touchy. Sweep it under the rug until after the 2018 election and give the guvner time to re-establish his PR campaign for 2020

3 Boss Hog - Keeping evidence under wraps and applying pressure to pin it on local underlings in local criminal networks to avoid exposing any local powerful interests who are part of the underground crime network

4 Combination of any of the above or something else?????

ETA: Regarding friends on social media, some of it may be the old "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" rationale?

I'm leaning toward #1. I think that they've opened such a Pandora's Box with this that to let much out could destroy the integrity of the case. They were fairly tight lipped with the Missy Bevers case and with the two little girls from Iowa too. Although I've not followed those nearly as closely, it seems that there's certain instances where they try and play things very close to vest.

 

[rsd1200]

I felt from the start that KR's murder was committed by a different person than the others.

I think it is likely that someone knew he had cash and wanted to rob him, or else had a grudge against him.

The timeline of death would be very interesting to know, as I suspect KR was killed hours after the killers of the other 7 were long gone from the area.

I also feel that DS's statement and actions don't ring true.

My opinion only.

KR has only fit for me in a couple scenarios for me. He just doesn't fit. And no, DS does not ring true at all. I get a bad vibe off of him. Whether he killed anyone, or not, I still get a bad vibe off of him.

 

[ts51]

Arrrgggghhh!!!! I'm going to pull my hair out

Chris Graves tweets


State wants to dismiss the case for direct indictments

Defense: Manley has a right to a hearing

Judge agrees with prosecutor, case will go directly to Grand Jury

Longest wait for shortest hearing

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves

Well that's that. State is shutting the case up behind closed doors again for who knows how many months.

State's insistence on keeping any details about this case from the public is highly unusual. What are they afraid of? If, as they sometimes lead us to believe, its just a bunch of poor recknecks and mountain justice, there would be no need to drag the investigation out so long and keep it hidden. It would be solved by now and the perps would be going to trial.

This is something much bigger and they're trying to handle it with kid gloves.

ETA 2: Does sending it to the grand jury also put a halt to the lawsuit over the autopsy reports? A decision on those cases is due soon.

 

[Betty P]

KR has only fit for me in a couple scenarios for me. He just doesn't fit. And no, DS does not ring true at all. I get a bad vibe off of him. Whether he killed anyone, or not, I still get a bad vibe off of him.

Since the recent raids, I've considered a different angle. Camp Creek Rd is not far from KR's. Perhaps the job was planned for seven deaths. After second thoughts about whether KR would be a threat, someone decided to send someone to his place from Camp Creek Rd to do the deed. They had to move fast, knowing the other deaths would be discovered soon. Someone zipped down to Left Fork and quickly killed KR, tossing the cash as a diversion to make it look like a Mexican cartel hit. One shot to avoid attention, in case there were early rising citizens around, getting ready for work or turkey hunters who were out in the woods after sunrise who might hear something.

DS is suspicious as heck to me, but not for killing KR. IMO he may know the killers, possibly knew of the plan. But he talked too much after the murders, gave away too much incriminating information to be the killer. If he had done it, he'd be on his way to trial by now. JMO, it would have been fairly easy for LE to get a confession or some other incriminating info out of him for an arrest.

 

[IceIce9]

KR has only fit for me in a couple scenarios for me. He just doesn't fit. And no, DS does not ring true at all. I get a bad vibe off of him. Whether he killed anyone, or not, I still get a bad vibe off of him.

Besides DS the other thing that absolutely jumps out at me is the coincidences of the people who were supposed to be there that night and weren't. If I were LE I would have jumped on this so quickly.

Meranda Gilley stated she was supposed to stay with her sister overnight but at the last second decided to drive past and go on home.

DS said he was supposed to be at KR's that night.

JW picked up his child a day early.

What is the common denominator here? Were there texts or phone calls between any of these people who are supposed to be present that night, but were not?

 

[ts51]

Have a question..(and thank all of you for your willingness to answer stupid questions!) JM's case is going to a grand jury, which my understanding is, grand juries decide if there is indeed a case to be tried, correct? I know know much about law. He was arrested for basically destroying a gps system..this requires a grand jury? Yes?! How lost am I? I DON'T know much about law, big typo.

 

[Betty P]

Chris Graves tweet

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves

Defense lawyer: James Manley lost his current logging job because of his arrest.

Assume JM will be out of jail during the GJ proceedings. Hopefully he can find other work.

Does anyone recall a prosecutor using GJ proceedings for such a relatively minor charge - tampering with evidence & vandalism?

 

[Betty P]

Besides DS the other thing that absolutely jumps out at me is the coincidences of the people who were supposed to be there that night and weren't. If I were LE I would have jumped on this so quickly.

Meranda Gilley stated she was supposed to stay with her sister overnight but at the last second decided to drive past and go on home.

DS said he was supposed to be at KR's that night.

JW picked up his child a day early.

What is the common denominator here? Were there texts or phone calls between any of these people who are supposed to be present that night, but were not?

Agree, that's curious. Early on, I fully expected DS would be the one they would start pressuring for information. Seems they should have with the others you mentioned, as well as anyone else who was at any of the homes that evening. It always seemed strange that BJM and JM were the ones they zeroed in on during the first hours. BJM definitely doesn't fit the mass murderer profile. Both were on the scene within hours of the deaths showing no evidence of having just killed 8 people in a bloody massacre. Its almost like, in the hours after the killing, someone called LE and said "you better put some pressure on those two to shut them up or they'll spill the beans".

During all the big raids a couple of weeks ago, the M properties were not part of it. They submitted to DNA testing, multiple poly exams, etc.



Chris Graves tweet of copy of dismissal of evidence tampering case.

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Chris Graves tweets


State wants to dismiss the case for direct indictments

Defense: Manley has a right to a hearing

Judge agrees with prosecutor, case will go directly to Grand Jury

Longest wait for shortest hearing

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves

Well that's that. State is shutting the case up behind closed doors again for who knows how many months.

State's insistence on keeping any details about this case from the public is highly unusual. What are they afraid of? If, as they sometimes lead us to believe, its just a bunch of poor recknecks and mountain justice, there would be no need to drag the investigation out so long and keep it hidden. It would be solved by now and the perps would be going to trial.

This is something much bigger and they're trying to handle it with kid gloves.

ETA 2: Does sending it to the grand jury also put a halt to the lawsuit over the autopsy reports? A decision on those cases is due soon.

I am beginning to believe it's about drug trafficking on the Highway 23 corridor and LE is trying to keep it under wraps so no one else gets killed. And to keep from tipping off all the members of the ring.

The Highway 23 Drug task force went with LE to search the horse ranch. Why did they go there if it is not about drug trafficking? That s what they do, investigate trafficking on the 23 corridor. No other reason for them to be.

So did SWAT. They were anticipating some serious resistance. Maybe the AK47 kind.

Reader said drugs likely not involved. I agree that they may not have been directly involved, as in CR and KR dealing or transporting the drugs.

But CR1 and KR could have been letting the runners stash some loads of drugs on their properties for safe keeping until they were transported on.

One thing we have yet to discuss. Why was the property on Peterson RD in JW and GW4's name? GW3 and AW lived there. I cannot believe that property did not belong to the parents. If it didn't, where did the parents live prior to moving in with their sons?. I could see the parents living with their sons if they were in their 80's but they look to be in their 40's.

Was the property in the son's names because their credit rating wasn't good enough to finance it? Because they didn't have the provable income to finance it? To circumvent the RICO Act?

I must say that parents in their forties living in their son's home is unusual. It is usually the other way around, the sons living in the parents home.

 

[Dudly]

Sounds very possible. The secrecy involved in this investigation is beyond anything I've ever seen. What do you think is driving the secrecy and delays?

1 Possible ongoing undercover investigation into organized crime in the area (drugs, MJ, car theft, money laundering, etc.) Keeping the case quiet until they're ready to lower the boom. May have undercover agents at risk.

2 Political - Case is taking longer to solve than they thought, is getting touchy. Sweep it under the rug until after the 2018 election and give the guvner time to re-establish his PR campaign for 2020

3 Boss Hog - Keeping evidence under wraps and applying pressure to pin it on local underlings in local criminal networks to avoid exposing any local powerful interests who are part of the underground crime network

4 Combination of any of the above or something else?????

ETA: Regarding friends on social media, some of it may be the old "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" rationale?

1 and/or 2 in my opinion..