OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #28

[Ray Pate]

Thanks for taking care of your parents: iceice9::I traveled Ak in1997..we got
together with five other church groups to peel and paint a big wooden
church....Winterizing that is::when the detail was called to stop,.i rented a
camper and for the next 12 days, Wife and I went to lower end of the state,,
Homer,the perfect fishing village for halibut, Seward ,,,next for whale watching
and puffins,who make homes in the rock walls.we followed the pipeline from
Fairbanks down to the end where it was then loaded on ships.
We had a picnic in Anchorage on July 4th,1997 and it was 73 degrees..
Jobs in Ak should be plentiful..Oil in Purdue Bay,,,Remember, citizens in
Ak are given stipends from the government,from the oil industry. So, W might
apply and receive some sort of living expenses...My guess is, W made a wise decision to move to Ak. If you go to Ak,do not fail to visit Homer.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks for taking care of your parents: iceice9::I traveled Ak in1997..we got
together with five other church groups to peel and paint a big wooden
church....Winterizing that is::when the detail was called to stop,.i rented a
camper and for the next 12 days, Wife and I went to lower end of the state,,
Homer,the perfect fishing village for halibut, Seward ,,,next for whale watching
and puffins,who make homes in the rock walls.we followed the pipeline from
Fairbanks down to the end where it was then loaded on ships.
We had a picnic in Anchorage on July 4th,1997 and it was 73 degrees..
Jobs in Ak should be plentiful..Oil in Purdue Bay,,,Remember, citizens in
Ak are given stipends from the government,from the oil industry. So, W might
apply and receive some sort of living expenses...My guess is, W made a wise decision to move to Ak. If you go to Ak,do not fail to visit Homer.

I think the stipend is around 1100.00 per person per year. I would think there is a high demand for professionals there, in teaching, health care and specialized oilfield services such as technicians. I just don't think there is a lot of call for truck drivers. Ms. W might be able to find a job in one of the remote villages with a background in education. The salary is around 65k per year with housing sometimes provided. But if you live there first order of the day is to get an electric heater installed on all car engines. Where a lot of cities have parking meters, in AK they have poles with electric outlets so you can plug in your heater for a fee to keep your engine from freezing up while you are parked.

A lot of people hate it because of the winter weather. We talked to a few in Fairbanks who were military and they couldn't wait to get back to the lower 48. One woman said she had pneumonia twice that winter.

 

[IceIce9]

Thanks for taking care of your parents: iceice9::I traveled Ak in1997..we got
together with five other church groups to peel and paint a big wooden
church....Winterizing that is::when the detail was called to stop,.i rented a
camper and for the next 12 days, Wife and I went to lower end of the state,,
Homer,the perfect fishing village for halibut, Seward ,,,next for whale watching
and puffins,who make homes in the rock walls.we followed the pipeline from
Fairbanks down to the end where it was then loaded on ships.
We had a picnic in Anchorage on July 4th,1997 and it was 73 degrees..
Jobs in Ak should be plentiful..Oil in Purdue Bay,,,Remember, citizens in
Ak are given stipends from the government,from the oil industry. So, W might
apply and receive some sort of living expenses...My guess is, W made a wise decision to move to Ak. If you go to Ak,do not fail to visit Homer.

The government stipends from oil (technically Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation) are annual payments for every resident, even children. It is a nice check, in 2015 the annual check was for over $2,000. Significant amount since each family member receives an annual check.

However, you have to live in Alaska for a full calendar year before you are eligible.

And, if you have been convicted of a felony you are not eligible to receive this payment. Anyone incarcerated in the 12 months prior won't receive a check either.

 

[Dudly]

They are fish-related jobs including processing and packing. In tourist areas there are jobs in restaurants and hotels.

Anchorage offers jobs in offices, in healthcare and at the airport which is very busy.

Speaking of healthcare there is a need all over the state for nurses, medics, and other medical staff.

There is a HUGE need for teachers. With teaching jobs in the smaller villages often housing is included.

There are some job search sites specific to Alaska. I've researched this extensively because I would like to relocate there. I work in healthcare so many jobs are available, both in the cities and the villages. I can't move yet because I take care of my parents, who are elderly and have serious health issues.

JW and his brother are both trained Diesel engine mechanics, too. So truck driving is not the only thing they can do...

 

[rsd1200]

I think the stipend is around 1100.00 per person per year. I would think there is a high demand for professionals there, in teaching, health care and specialized oilfield services such as technicians. I just don't think there is a lot of call for truck drivers. Ms. W might be able to find a job in one of the remote villages with a background in education. The salary is around 65k per year with housing sometimes provided. But if you live there first order of the day is to get an electric heater installed on all car engines. Where a lot of cities have parking meters, in AK they have poles with electric outlets so you can plug in your heater for a fee to keep your engine from freezing up while you are parked.

A lot of people hate it because of the winter weather. We talked to a few in Fairbanks who were military and they couldn't wait to get back to the lower 48. One woman said she had pneumonia twice that winter.

$1,100 per year wouldn't be enough for someone, if they're wanting to keep a low profile, to want to sign up w/the govt. I'd think. It sounds like a wonderful place to visit but I'd probably freeze to death in the winters. I usually freeze during our winters. This last one was quite mild, and weird, though.

Edit: just saw Ice's post. It may be more tempting w/getting that per member of the family!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

JW and his brother are both trained Diesel engine mechanics, too. So truck driving is not the only thing they can do...

I wonder if the engines on the fishing vessels are diesel?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

$1,100 per year wouldn't be enough for someone, if they're wanting to keep a low profile, to want to sign up w/the govt. I'd think. It sounds like a wonderful place to visit but I'd probably freeze to death in the winters. I usually freeze during our winters. This last one was quite mild, and weird, though.

Edit: just saw Ice's post. It may be more tempting w/getting that per member of the family!

That 1100.00 figure was from 2011 taxes so I can see it being 2000.00 now. The cost of food in Alaska is higher than the lower 48 though. Housing also probably. Heating would be also.

 

[IceIce9]

That 1100.00 figure was from 2011 taxes so I can see it being 2000.00 now. The cost of food in Alaska is higher than the lower 48 though. Housing also probably. Heating would be also.

The Alaska Permanent fund check doesn't necessarily increase every year. In 2013 it was only $900, 2014 was $1884. 2015 was $2072. 2016 was $1022.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The Alaska Permanent fund check doesn't necessarily increase every year. In 2013 it was only $900, 2014 was $1884. 2015 was $2072. 2016 was $1022.

So it is adjusted according to oil revenue for the prior year? I wonder if it is rated on profit margin?

 

[IceIce9]

So it is adjusted according to oil revenue for the prior year? I wonder if it is rated on profit margin?

The amount of each year's payment is based upon a five year average plus many other factors including the stock market.

The lowest payout to date was 1984 when it was $331. The highest was 2015 at $2,072.

 

[jk204]

Hi,

Does anyone know if HMR lived with JW, where and when?

And if so, were they sharing a home with his brother and wife?

I just want to understand how well these people knew each other.

 

[coastal]

I wonder if the engines on the fishing vessels are diesel?

Yes. My ex's 65 foot Tuna boat had a diesel engine, as did every other commercial boat I was familiar with at the time. Diesel fuel is not highly flammable - a big plus at sea!

 

[Margo/Mom]

I received a reply about the Rhoden case from AZlawyer, a verified attorney who is a long time member here at WS.

I asked her if it seemed unusual for the prosecutor to drop charges against JM in favor of moving the case to the GJ. Here is her reply:



My follow up questions to AZlawyer are:

1 Will other witnesses besides LE be allowed to testify?

2 Will the the prosecutor be allowed to ask questions/cover topics that are related to other areas of the murder investigation, aside from the charges related to the GPS tracker?

Should we also assume the vague nature of the GPS warrant is the result of LE wishing to reveal as little as possible about their investigation?

I have a million questions, but why don't you all throw some out here. If AZlawyer is still in the forum she can read them.

Thanks, AZlawyer!

ETA: Beginning tomorrow, I'll not be on the forum regularly for the next several days, but will try to check in once a day.

I am not an attorney, but I did serve on a federal grand jury once--so I have just enough knowledge to make me dangerous, I suppose.

But let me throw out some assumptions that I have made about the current grand jury based on my experience and perhaps AZlawyer will be so kind as to set me straight.

I am guessing that the GJ is a federal GJ, owing to some federal charges being considered, along the lines of racketeering. When I served, we served for a period of time (a year, more or less) and heard a number of cases at our regular weekly meetings. Some cases were pretty much one and done--presented and voted on in the same session. But many were presented over the course of time, some with weeks of "background" before actual charges were presented. And in some cases the charges changed, as new evidence was being discovered during ongoing investigations.

All of which is to say that I haven't assumed that the GJ is considering anything so small as the destruction of the GPS and that this was just a handy way to get JM in for questioning, perhaps revealing to him other evidence (related to the murders or anything else he might be close to) that they have in order to convince him to be cooperative in the larger (murder/racketeering/drug dealing/whatever) case, which I have always assumed to be both wide and complex. The prosecutors might choose to bring him in to testify before the GJ, or they could interview him and present what they learned from him more directly to the GJ. Rules of evidence do not apply as they do in a trial. Therefore, hearsay is permissible, there is no defense representation. Witnesses may not bring representation in with them (as proceedings are secret) but may reach them by phone or by stepping out at any time during their testimony. The purpose of the GJ is not to arrive at a determination of guilt, but rather to determine whether there is sufficient evidence that a crime has been committed.

I posted upthread somewhere that I was heartened to hear mention of a grand jury, because it says to me that the murder case is actually moving forward, although the specific context may not be revealed publicly for some time to come--that is when the prosecution wraps up and the GJ votes approval for charges to be brought. Now--I could be totally wrong and the GJ could be considering something altogether different about which JM has knowledge. But, as I said earlier, my hunch is that this is a federal GJ and that the context involves racketeering.

 

[RichP]

I am not an attorney, but I did serve on a federal grand jury once--so I have just enough knowledge to make me dangerous, I suppose.

But let me throw out some assumptions that I have made about the current grand jury based on my experience and perhaps AZlawyer will be so kind as to set me straight.

I am guessing that the GJ is a federal GJ, owing to some federal charges being considered, along the lines of racketeering. When I served, we served for a period of time (a year, more or less) and heard a number of cases at our regular weekly meetings. Some cases were pretty much one and done--presented and voted on in the same session. But many were presented over the course of time, some with weeks of "background" before actual charges were presented. And in some cases the charges changed, as new evidence was being discovered during ongoing investigations.

All of which is to say that I haven't assumed that the GJ is considering anything so small as the destruction of the GPS and that this was just a handy way to get JM in for questioning, perhaps revealing to him other evidence (related to the murders or anything else he might be close to) that they have in order to convince him to be cooperative in the larger (murder/racketeering/drug dealing/whatever) case, which I have always assumed to be both wide and complex. The prosecutors might choose to bring him in to testify before the GJ, or they could interview him and present what they learned from him more directly to the GJ. Rules of evidence do not apply as they do in a trial. Therefore, hearsay is permissible, there is no defense representation. Witnesses may not bring representation in with them (as proceedings are secret) but may reach them by phone or by stepping out at any time during their testimony. The purpose of the GJ is not to arrive at a determination of guilt, but rather to determine whether there is sufficient evidence that a crime has been committed.

I posted upthread somewhere that I was heartened to hear mention of a grand jury, because it says to me that the murder case is actually moving forward, although the specific context may not be revealed publicly for some time to come--that is when the prosecution wraps up and the GJ votes approval for charges to be brought. Now--I could be totally wrong and the GJ could be considering something altogether different about which JM has knowledge. But, as I said earlier, my hunch is that this is a federal GJ and that the context involves racketeering.

Where is the GJ sitting? If it's federal one it would be in either Cincinnati, Columbus or Dayton. Those are the locations for the Federal Southern District in Ohio.

 

[rsd1200]

Hi,

Does anyone know if HMR lived with JW, where and when?

And if so, were they sharing a home with his brother and wife?

I just want to understand how well these people knew each other.

I can't answer that 100% but I feel like she spent a lot of time with the W family based on her going on vacation with them pretty early in her relationship w/JW, and his statement about his hopes of her "coming back, and bringing K, to live there" (loosely quoted).

 

[jk204]

The weather map shows it is raining in eastern Ohio. Have the Wagners returned to get all their untarped belongings sitting in that large trailer or is it still sitting on that car lot? What a mess! That car dealer must wish that mess wasn't on his property. That's an expensive-looking truck attached to that messy trailer. I wonder why the Ws haven't come back to pick it up with their stuff. There must be $40,000+ worth of the W's stuff sitting in that man's car lot. Why didn't they put their stuff in a storage unit for $100? Did they think it couldn't be searched by LE if it was on someone else's property?

(If they've got so much money that they don't need these belongings, I'd like to make an offer on that truck and horse trailer.)

About the money. Two comments:

1) selling a home doesn’t necessarily result in a lot of cash, especially it if was sold 10k lower, and purchased with a loan just a few years ago.

2) revenues:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/07/29/rhoden-case-hate-seeing-my-daughter-cry/87645382/

W***** set a fundraising goal of $20,000, but said his legal bills were not quite that high. But, he added, his legal bills were four times more than what he expected. The former over-the-road truck driver and trained mechanic has maxed out his credit cards. He said he is paying his lawyer in what is left over after he pays his other bills every month. It hardly makes a dent.

 

[amauet1]

Thank you all for the education of Alaska, it truly is a beautiful state. IMO all the FB sites and photos were just a ruse. If they were smart enough to go on "vacation" before the raid, they are smart enough to pretend to be anywhere. If the LE were planning a "raid" on their place, they would be aware of them leaving and have some idea of where they were going. They either couldn't legally stop them or didn't want to.
LE has kept a tight lid on this case so far in the information "we" receive, any info that does "leak" they have let leak.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

About the money. Two comments:

1) selling a home doesn’t necessarily result in a lot of cash, especially it if was sold 10k lower, and purchased with a loan just a few years ago.

2) revenues:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/07/29/rhoden-case-hate-seeing-my-daughter-cry/87645382/

W***** set a fundraising goal of $20,000, but said his legal bills were not quite that high. But, he added, his legal bills were four times more than what he expected. The former over-the-road truck driver and trained mechanic has maxed out his credit cards. He said he is paying his lawyer in what is left over after he pays his other bills every month. It hardly makes a dent.

Do you think the truck and trailers might be financed and they left them there to be repossessed by the finance company? Also, if as we suspect they were in some kind of criminal activity with the R's and M's, then they could have a lot of unaccounted for cash on hand.

 

[jk204]

Thank you all for the education of Alaska, it truly is a beautiful state. IMO all the FB sites and photos were just a ruse. If they were smart enough to go on "vacation" before the raid, they are smart enough to pretend to be anywhere. If the LE were planning a "raid" on their place, they would be aware of them leaving and have some idea of where they were going. They either couldn't legally stop them or didn't want to.
LE has kept a tight lid on this case so far in the information "we" receive, any info that does "leak" they have let leak.

I agree. They could be back already or they never left. Again, it's their own business.

 

[rsd1200]

About the money. Two comments:

1) selling a home doesn’t necessarily result in a lot of cash, especially it if was sold 10k lower, and purchased with a loan just a few years ago.

2) revenues:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/07/29/rhoden-case-hate-seeing-my-daughter-cry/87645382/

W***** set a fundraising goal of $20,000, but said his legal bills were not quite that high. But, he added, his legal bills were four times more than what he expected. The former over-the-road truck driver and trained mechanic has maxed out his credit cards. He said he is paying his lawyer in what is left over after he pays his other bills every month. It hardly makes a dent.

The grandparents and/or parents may have $$$, or had $$$, but, as OP(s) on here pointed out, and as you point out above, that doesn't mean that that $$$ trickles down to children and grandchildren. Those trucks and trailers are quite pricey equipment too. If they were free and clear, I'd guess they'd have been sold off too (at the very least, sell the trucks, on the way out of town, after they dropped the trailers). After three years owning the house, they might have had enough down payment on it, and payments made on it, to maybe break about even, if they were fortunate.