OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

[rsd1200]

Rsd, I noticed LM says Bjm found FR and HHG then she went to CRsr's. I believe this. But here's a question for anyone, why did she go to Frankie's first? LM said she "feed" the animals everyday. She mentions in her interview that she feed CRsr's animals, but Frankie had animals to. What made her go to Frankie's first? What reason would she have had?

HHG didn't work or drive so she'd have probably, normally, been up taking care of the baby. Maybe BJM was going to run in and see the baby. Possibly even take her friend in to see the baby. She said one of her friends was behind her when she went in to FR's but she doesn't remember which one.

It's around 350' from CR1's driveway to FR's driveway. I don't see her running that distance with the two children. Combine that with the time at CR1's,a call to LM, and it makes an accounting for the lost time between arrival, and the 911 call. It might also explain why the deputies were so insistent that she was untruthful about her time frame. She says nothing about FR, or HHG, on the 911 call and almost leaves out GR, so it seemed as if she'd just arrived at CR1's, at the time of the call. I may be wrong, but I think she was just overwrought at the point of the 911 call.

 

[rsd1200]

Well...to a degree Moonshine is legal. I'm in Tennessee and the percentage of alcohol allowed in Moonshine to be sold in liquor stores is low. I can't remember the percentage, but the real shine I can get has a much higher alcohol content. My friends that drink it won't buy the stuff in stores. Same goes for homemade wine. My friend's grandad makes gooseberry wine that is STOUT. Can't buy that in stores either!

O/T Yeah, I don't drink the store bought shine either. They sell the store bought here too (Ky.). My grandmother used to make homemade wine in those old crock jugs.She had a little grape harbor. I might have to look into that gooseberry wine! I have been nurturing a little gooseberry bush that I salvaged off the farm.

 

[Dudly]

That is a good question. Maybe she fed both lots of animals, or maybe Hannah would be up (having a baby) when she usually went there and thought it was odd that it was all really quiet.

I can see that HG would have trouble feeding animals with a 6 month old and a toddler in tow. BJM may have been feeding those animals, too. She may have went there to ask where CR1 was since his truck was there and the door locked. The people that were with BJM that morning know where she went first but I doubt we will ever hear from them before a trial... Even the media has never mentioned them refusing an interview or anything about them. They just disappeared...

 

[Dudly]

​BBM

A lot has been said about what LM meant when he said go to Lawshe nursing home and talk to them. I do not think he meant to ask about DM's character. The context he said it in does not indicate that. Rather it implies that the people at the nursing home would know why she was killed.


NR-10: She's your daughter? Did you have any suspicion at all that...

LM: Well, I ain't gonna say, cause it's gonna interfere with them out there.I, let's put it this way, I give them two chances, and I give them a chance Saturday and I asked DeWayne over there at the church in front of 150 people, if, but you need to... If you want some information you need to go down to the Lawshe nursing home and talk to the people down there.



IIRC a witness from the nursing home said that DR received a phone call that night right before she got off work that upset her to the point she was crying. That witness also said she told them she had made a mistake. To me this statement of LM's implies that if the reporter wants to know why his daughter was killed they should ask the employees at the nursing home.


When asked if his daughter feared for his safety, he did not deny that she did. He just said if they did not give his son his truck back he would start talking.


NR-10: Did your daughter ever fear for her safety up here?


LM: Well, I ain't gonna say that neither. You know, I promised them I'd wait an hour.





LM is a man with a deep distrust of those in law enforcement. I have tried to put myself in his position, but it is impossible for me as I have several close family members who work for the federal government, some in law enforcement and clients who are law enforcement officers on the federal, state and local level. I have never had any reason to mistrust LE. I know there are posters on here who know how he feels but for me the life experiences are just not there.


That being said to me this statement he made implies that he thinks LE had something to do with the murders or some other illegal enterprise going on in Pike County.


But, I mean, you know, there's alot of things that's been covered up right here in Pike County.


NR-10: LM, what's been covered up? What do you think?

LM: No No I can't say that... yet.


I wonder if at that early stage that LM thought the PCSO was involved in the murders. Or if LE was involved in some illegal activities that LM personally knew about. I also wonder if he was implying that the murders was a direct result of the conflict with PCSO the prior Saturday? If the reason DR was upset that night was because of that prior conflict and something arising out of it? Such as CR1 being involved in a fight and LE taking the side of the other combatant? There is so much we don't know, but I think for some reason LM thought DR's co-workers knew why she was killed.

It sure seemed to me that he implied there were answers about the murders at the nursing home. He also implied a cover up by LE about something. Maybe there were drugs disappearing or being sold from the nursing home and LE did nothing about it or LE was involved in it. There are people in nursing homes that wouldn't know if you gave them their drugs or pocketed them. DR may have found out about it or was asked to participate and refused. She also may have been involved and tried to get out. Lots of possibilities there, too...
I

 

[rsd1200]

​BBM

A lot has been said about what LM meant when he said go to Lawshe nursing home and talk to them. I do not think he meant to ask about DM's character. The context he said it in does not indicate that. Rather it implies that the people at the nursing home would know why she was killed.


NR-10: She's your daughter? Did you have any suspicion at all that...

LM: Well, I ain't gonna say, cause it's gonna interfere with them out there.I, let's put it this way, I give them two chances, and I give them a chance Saturday and I asked DeWayne over there at the church in front of 150 people, if, but you need to... If you want some information you need to go down to the Lawshe nursing home and talk to the people down there.



IIRC a witness from the nursing home said that DR received a phone call that night right before she got off work that upset her to the point she was crying. That witness also said she told them she had made a mistake. To me this statement of LM's implies that if the reporter wants to know why his daughter was killed they should ask the employees at the nursing home.


When asked if his daughter feared for his safety, he did not deny that she did. He just said if they did not give his son his truck back he would start talking.


NR-10: Did your daughter ever fear for her safety up here?


LM: Well, I ain't gonna say that neither. You know, I promised them I'd wait an hour.





LM is a man with a deep distrust of those in law enforcement. I have tried to put myself in his position, but it is impossible for me as I have several close family members who work for the federal government, some in law enforcement and clients who are law enforcement officers on the federal, state and local level. I have never had any reason to mistrust LE. I know there are posters on here who know how he feels but for me the life experiences are just not there.


That being said to me this statement he made implies that he thinks LE had something to do with the murders or some other illegal enterprise going on in Pike County.


But, I mean, you know, there's alot of things that's been covered up right here in Pike County.


NR-10: LM, what's been covered up? What do you think?

LM: No No I can't say that... yet.


I wonder if at that early stage that LM thought the PCSO was involved in the murders. Or if LE was involved in some illegal activities that LM personally knew about. I also wonder if he was implying that the murders was a direct result of the conflict with PCSO the prior Saturday? If the reason DR was upset that night was because of that prior conflict and something arising out of it? Such as CR1 being involved in a fight and LE taking the side of the other combatant? There is so much we don't know, but I think for some reason LM thought DR's co-workers knew why she was killed.

What with JJ and the two murders he was tied to, prior to the murders of the R/G family, and before him, there were two deputies involved in a domestic incidence, and then, on back was that freak-show chief deputy... So, I guess mistrust in LE is well-earned in the region. It's well-earned in a lot of small towns. I will say that the majority are good people but when you have only 16 folks, to begin with, on your force, and stuff like this keeps popping up, along with other murders that seem to be going nowhere, it could tend to make one jaded.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/stat...deputies-run-afoul-of-the-law-in-recent-years

 

[IceIce9]

It sure seemed to me that he implied there were answers about the murders at the nursing home. He also implied a cover up by LE about something. Maybe there were drugs disappearing or being sold from the nursing home and LE did nothing about it or LE was involved in it. There are people in nursing homes that wouldn't know if you gave them their drugs or pocketed them. DR may have found out about it or was asked to participate and refused. She also may have been involved and tried to get out. Lots of possibilities there, too...
I

Having worked in a nursing home, and having friends who are nurses and currently work in nursing homes, I can say that drugs is the first thing that came to my mind. Nursing homes deal with large quantities of prescription pain meds, many are narcotics.

There are many opportunities for abuse and theft of pain meds at nursing homes like when a patient dies a few days after receiving a 30 day supply of pain meds that are to be given 1 to 2 pills every 4 to 6 hours as needed for pain. Perhaps 200 or more OxyContin or Percocet pills, what is the street value of that?

While nursing homes would perform random drug screens that won't catch employees who steal drugs to sell.

Most employees are paid minimum wage or slightly above and even nurses earn much less in long term care facilities than other health care settings.


I, too, took his statement to mean that clues to the murders could be found
by talking to employees at the nursing home.

I believe there is a real possibility of a drug theft operation.

 

[Venom]

Ok, I'm going to assume that LE did go down and talk to DR's coworkers about what she could have been upset about that night. Could that be what LM was meaning? To find out what she was upset about? But then, how would he have known she was upset over something, did she call him that night and tell him?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

What with JJ and the two murders he was tied to, prior to the murders of the R/G family, and before him, there were two deputies involved in a domestic incidence, and then, on back was that freak-show chief deputy... So, I guess mistrust in LE is well-earned in the region. It's well-earned in a lot of small towns. I will say that the majority are good people but when you have only 16 folks, to begin with, on your force, and stuff like this keeps popping up, along with other murders that seem to be going nowhere, it could tend to make one jaded.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/stat...deputies-run-afoul-of-the-law-in-recent-years

The problem is I do not think LM's distrust of LE is based on hearsay. I have heard things about some of the LE in my county before. I have read about dishonest and downright crooked LE in MSM. But I don't personally distrust LE.


I think that comes from personal experience with LE. In other words, at some point in LM's life, he had an experience with LE that made him distrust them all. He doesn't just distrust them, he actively dislikes them. That has came through loud and clear almost every time LM talks to reporters. From that interview to the one in front of the court house after his son was arrested, LM shows nothing but contempt for LE.


There is no doubt that something in the R's life got them killed. As an investigator once said "There is a dark cloud in this family's life. Find that cloud and you find your killer." Right now we have little to no information on what that is but I do think we should take LM's attitude toward LE into consideration. His attitude fairly shouts that he is on the opposite side from LE, so we have to assume some of that attitude was shared by his daughter Dr and her husband CR1 and maybe even down to his grandchildren. That is why I think that somewhere in the victims lives there was something illegal going on other than just a few pot plants.

 

[rsd1200]

The problem is I do not think LM's distrust of LE is based on hearsay. I have heard things about some of the LE in my county before. I have read about dishonest and downright crooked LE in MSM. But I don't personally distrust LE.


I think that comes from personal experience with LE. In other words, at some point in LM's life, he had an experience with LE that made him distrust them all. He doesn't just distrust them, he actively dislikes them. That has came through loud and clear almost every time LM talks to reporters. From that interview to the one in front of the court house after his son was arrested, LM shows nothing but contempt for LE.


There is no doubt that something in the R's life got them killed. As an investigator once said "There is a dark cloud in this family's life. Find that cloud and you find your killer." Right now we have little to no information on what that is but I do think we should take LM's attitude toward LE into consideration. His attitude fairly shouts that he is on the opposite side from LE, so we have to assume some of that attitude was shared by his daughter Dr and her husband CR1 and maybe even down to his grandchildren. That is why I think that somewhere in the victims lives there was something illegal going on other than just a few pot plants.

Just look at the Pike County court records. The Rs and the Ms were pulled over constantly. They apparently just would not wear seat belts either. (I'm of the belief that a grown adult shouldn't be forced to wear one, same with helmets, although I personally wear both, but I don't want to have to pay the fine, get thrown through a windshield, have my brains splattered on the pavement, or give anyone a reason to pull me over. I don't hate cops but I prefer to keep my distance from them. I'm glad we have them, but I'd not want their job. There's some bad apples out there, that need to have their badges removed instead of getting moved around to other regions/departments, instead, they make all the LEOs look bad, and they also make the good LEOs jobs harder due to causing the lack of trust. I'm sure that LM's agitation and outright dislike for them is due to some personal experience.

On a side note: I just noticed that the eldest R brother is taking over care of the R properties. With the exception of DR's place, it has not been switched over yet.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

My belief is the Sheriff should have by now a personal conviction as to whom has done it. He speaks with his heart.

Indeed, I would like to hear his tone when he said this statement. It wouldn't come out the same way whether he was speaking to killers he believed as: crime gang members or revengeful teens or extended family members or ideologists. All theories we tossed here.

Two parts of the sentence I find interesting:
1) thieves in the night speaks to one's moral code
2) children among the victims seems to question the motivation of the killers

Either he was speaking to (a) killers with a moral code and a concern for children, or (b) he was simply speaking to the victims family with a supportive statement. If the "message to the killers" is nothing more than another sympathy statement a year after, then I wonder if he knows anything at all.

Maybe I am over-analyzing the Sheriff's speech. But the thread is getting super quiet, I felt I needed to throw in something.

I find the reference about the children to be an expression of his disgust and outrage. I also think it implies that the killers are not close in age to Franky, CR2, etc.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes, there's still something hinky about the Hillcrest Nursing Home. Does anyone know who owns it? There's also a Hillside Nursing Home on the same street, owned by a fairly large nursing home corporation.

ETA: Correction. Hillside and Hillcrest nursing homes are at the same address. Here's a link to the corporation that owns it:

http://continuinghc.com/management-team-for-continuing-healthcare-solutions/

You know, it is kind of odd that DR's employer never made a public statement of sympathy about the murders. Never offered to help with reward money, etc. Her fellow employees talked about her, but not the company itself. You would think they would have wanted to make a donation towards the reward fund, a memorial, help with burial expenses, etc. Nothing from them but silence.

I agree, Betty P. It's very strange that the corporation didn't do anything, make a statement, make a donation to the reward fund, etc. If nothing else, it would have given them the opportunity for good publicity.

I wonder what type of reputation that corporation has around town?

On another topic, I find it interesting that in the transcript above that when LM is asked how he is feeling, he remarks about the truck again immediately.

Why did the truck have fictitious plates? And why was it so important that the truck not be towed?

 

[Dudly]

I agree, Betty P. It's very strange that the corporation didn't do anything, make a statement, make a donation to the reward fund, etc. If nothing else, it would have given them the opportunity for good publicity.

I wonder what type of reputation that corporation has around town?

On another topic, I find it interesting that in the transcript above that when LM is asked how he is feeling, he remarks about the truck again immediately.

Why did the truck have fictitious plates? And why was it so important that the truck not be towed?

Re the plates. It could be he just bought the truck and didn't have the plates transferred to the new truck. It could be he forgot. It could be he just does things that way. I knew someone that used one set of plates for three different vehicles. It is cheaper till you get caught.
R

 

[Obiwankenobi]

Concerning the theory of BJM finding FR and HG first, I'm not convinced one way or another. It's definitely a conflict of information. I'd like to think LM just got it backwards. I've listened to the 911 call several times and to me, right before she hangs up, it sounds like she said she had to go check on Frankie. However, on shows that I've watched, the 911 operator usually wants you to remain on the line until the first responders arrive on the scene. But this didn't seem to be the case in this instance. I really wish I knew for sure what she said.

 

[Betty P]

I agree, Betty P. It's very strange that the corporation didn't do anything, make a statement, make a donation to the reward fund, etc. If nothing else, it would have given them the opportunity for good publicity.

I wonder what type of reputation that corporation has around town?

On another topic, I find it interesting that in the transcript above that when LM is asked how he is feeling, he remarks about the truck again immediately.

Why did the truck have fictitious plates? And why was it so important that the truck not be towed?

LM was angry about the truck being impounded because it contained the tools his son JM used for work. No truck and tools, no work, no income. The M family isn't rolling in money, so it was probably a real financial hardship for JM. IIRC they kept the truck for several days before returning it. Apparently there was no criminal evidence in the truck or JM would have been arrested.

Like other Rhodens and Manleys, JM was pulled over several times for petty stuff (seatbelts, etc.) but were never arrested for any serious crimes. Other than the grow op and one or two fistfights, it looks like the Rhodens and Manleys kept their noses clean, so to speak. It almost seems like LE was harassing them. If they had the grow op going during these traffic stops, perhaps local LE were shaking them down for money to keep it quiet.

 

[amauet1]

Just look at the Pike County court records. The Rs and the Ms were pulled over constantly. They apparently just would not wear seat belts either. (I'm of the belief that a grown adult shouldn't be forced to wear one, same with helmets, although I personally wear both, but I don't want to have to pay the fine, get thrown through a windshield, have my brains splattered on the pavement, or give anyone a reason to pull me over. I don't hate cops but I prefer to keep my distance from them. I'm glad we have them, but I'd not want their job. There's some bad apples out there, that need to have their badges removed instead of getting moved around to other regions/departments, instead, they make all the LEOs look bad, and they also make the good LEOs jobs harder due to causing the lack of trust. I'm sure that LM's agitation and outright dislike for them is due to some personal experience.

On a side note: I just noticed that the eldest R brother is taking over care of the R properties. With the exception of DR's place, it has not been switched over yet.

Hmmm..... it could be as simple as TR can't afford to or doesn't want to continue to be the Rhoden's exceutor any more. But why split up the properties? Can you tell us more about this?

 

[rsd1200]

Concerning the theory of BJM finding FR and HG first, I'm not convinced one way or another. It's definitely a conflict of information. I'd like to think LM just got it backwards. I've listened to the 911 call several times and to me, right before she hangs up, it sounds like she said she had to go check on Frankie. However, on shows that I've watched, the 911 operator usually wants you to remain on the line until the first responders arrive on the scene. But this didn't seem to be the case in this instance. I really wish I knew for sure what she said.

Have you listened to the 911 call through headphones? I can make it out better through headphones. I've sped it up, and slowed it down, messed w/the volume, etc...and either way, I've always thought I've heard children in the background. Especially in the first :05 seconds, where she says "back in a second" starting at the :03 mark, then I think I hear them again around the :09 second mark, right before BJM walks to the mailbox.

At the end of the call, 2:06, to me, it sounds as if BJM says; "Oh my God, please don't let it be." Then another voice, right before BJM hangs up, on BJM's side, says; "Good job." The other voice sounds female to me, but does not sound sinister, more like someone trying to say something helpful in an awkward sort of way.

 

[Obiwankenobi]

Have you listened to the 911 call through headphones? I can make it out better through headphones. I've sped it up, and slowed it down, messed w/the volume, etc...and either way, I've always thought I've heard children in the background. Especially in the first :05 seconds, where she says "back in a second" starting at the :03 mark, then I think I hear them again around the :09 second mark, right before BJM walks to the mailbox.

At the end of the call, 2:06, to me, it sounds as if BJM says; "Oh my God, please don't let it be." Then another voice, right before BJM hangs up, on BJM's side, says; "Good job." The other voice sounds female to me, but does not sound sinister, more like someone trying to say something helpful in an awkward sort of way.

No, I actually do not have headphones, well, except for the ones that come with phones. It would definitely make sense for the time gap but it doesn't fit that the call was reporting only CRsr and GR. Logically, in my mind, unless she were covering something, why not report them all if all had been discovered already? Is it possible the other couple with her had a child? Which is also bizarre! No mention anywhere ever of this mystery couple. I hope when this all plays out in the end, we will see exactly how this whole story played out. This could be made into a mini series.

 

[sumzero]

No, I actually do not have headphones, well, except for the ones that come with phones. It would definitely make sense for the time gap but it doesn't fit that the call was reporting only CRsr and GR. Logically, in my mind, unless she were covering something, why not report them all if all had been discovered already? Is it possible the other couple with her had a child? Which is also bizarre! No mention anywhere ever of this mystery couple. I hope when this all plays out in the end, we will see exactly how this whole story played out. This could be made into a mini series.

Interview with BJM: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

Sequence of events seems clear.

 

[rsd1200]

LM was angry about the truck being impounded because it contained the tools his son JM used for work. No truck and tools, no work, no income. The M family isn't rolling in money, so it was probably a real financial hardship for JM. IIRC they kept the truck for several days before returning it. Apparently there was no criminal evidence in the truck or JM would have been arrested.

Like other Rhodens and Manleys, JM was pulled over several times for petty stuff (seatbelts, etc.) but were never arrested for any serious crimes. Other than the grow op and one or two fistfights, it looks like the Rhodens and Manleys kept their noses clean, so to speak. It almost seems like LE was harassing them. If they had the grow op going during these traffic stops, perhaps local LE were shaking them down for money to keep it quiet.

BBM
True.

LE also targets on such things if they suspect they may be able to get their foot into the door for a search of your vehicle in order to find something else. They also do more pull overs in counties that have high poverty rates. It's a means of filling their coffers.


As of May 03, 2016 JM's truck nor tools had been released.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...owed-part-investigation-pike-county/83882994/

Idk if this included the initial three vehicles towed, including JM's, or not but as of Nov, 2016:

DeWine said all of the vehicles will be returned to various family members through Pike County Probate Court procedures.

He also said this...
"As far as we are concerned, we are done with the cars and have been for a while,'' DeWine said

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...surviving-rhodens-get-vehicles-back/94300112/

That's a very long time to keep someone's vehicle and tools if so.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
True.

LE also targets on such things if they suspect they may be able to get their foot into the door for a search of your vehicle in order to find something else. They also do more pull overs in counties that have high poverty rates. It's a means of filling their coffers.


As of May 03, 2016 JM's truck nor tools had been released.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...owed-part-investigation-pike-county/83882994/

Idk if this included the initial three vehicles towed, including JM's, or not but as of Nov, 2016:

DeWine said all of the vehicles will be returned to various family members through Pike County Probate Court procedures.

He also said this...
"As far as we are concerned, we are done with the cars and have been for a while,'' DeWine said

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...surviving-rhodens-get-vehicles-back/94300112/

That's a very long time to keep someone's vehicle and tools if so.

Yes, they kept his truck and tools a long time. Apparently they didn't find anything or they would have arrested him. IIRC, they searched the Manley homes, interviewed them, gave polys, etc. If there was any evidence, they would have arrested them. It would have made LE's job much easier. So I still think they had nothing to do with the murders.

ETA: Speaking of JM's truck, I wonder if he had to get the red truck during that time he was without one. He surely wasn't in a position to go without working for several weeks. Could someone have set him up by loaning him the red truck that LE recently confiscated, the one they claimed was used in the murders? Was his old truck so torn apart by LE that he had to get a different one? Surely LE didn't keep his original one so long for that reason, right?