OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

[Dudly]

I've been working my way through all 30 threads for over a week, and trying to find answers to my questions within the old threads before posting in the latest thread. I'm on #27 now, so getting close to being caught up. But I'm going to go ahead and ask two questions that are related to this case, but also a matter of interest in general for other cases.

1 - can LE retrieve actual text content somehow if both parties deleted the texts and do not back up their phone content?

2 - If, assuming these texts were deleted on both phones, party A sent a text at 10 pm and party B's phone doesn't show receipt of text message until 2 am, will phone records show that text was in fact sent at 10 pm and that it wasn't received until 2 am?

(This happens with me and my mom a lot. Her phone will actually show receipt of my text hours later while my phone will show successfully sent hours earlier. But what I wonder is what time stamps the phone records show for this kind of situation.)

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I'm not sure how the phones store info. On a PC with a hard drive, there is basically two copies of everything saved to the hard drive. There are programs that can retrieve info from a PC hard drive even after it has been reformatted. That said, there are programs that are supposed to wipe a hard drive of all info by writing Zeros to the whole drive. They apparently found a way to extract info from a password protected phone in the one case. There were lawsuits over that.

 

[Flatbush]

Certainly not an expert on cell towers and such, but stands to reason if the message "sends" it will record a time on the tower it hit. Not sure about receiving messages.
The thing I am trying to figure out, the people killed last week in Lawrence County.
There was a guy missing from down there, never found any sign of him except his truck. Billy Harper. As I recall, he was seen in Pike County the day before Rhoden murders, he was last seen at his home the day before that. Never seen again. LE didn't process his truck so no evidence there. I'm just curious if he knew any of these people.

 

[mamamumbles]

Certainly not an expert on cell towers and such, but stands to reason if the message "sends" it will record a time on the tower it hit. Not sure about receiving messages.
The thing I am trying to figure out, the people killed last week in Lawrence County.
There was a guy missing from down there, never found any sign of him except his truck. Billy Harper. As I recall, he was seen in Pike County the day before Rhoden murders, he was last seen at his home the day before that. Never seen again. LE didn't process his truck so no evidence there. I'm just curious if he knew any of these people.

I've always suspected Billy Harper's car was used for the Rhoden murder. No backing for this theory, just made sense with timing. Billy went missing i think the day before the Rhoden murder. His car was found shortly after. It would make sense if someone got rid of Billu, used his car for a horrific murder, and then drove it back and ditched it. They never did find Billy.

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[Dudly]

Certainly not an expert on cell towers and such, but stands to reason if the message "sends" it will record a time on the tower it hit. Not sure about receiving messages.
The thing I am trying to figure out, the people killed last week in Lawrence County.
There was a guy missing from down there, never found any sign of him except his truck. Billy Harper. As I recall, he was seen in Pike County the day before Rhoden murders, he was last seen at his home the day before that. Never seen again. LE didn't process his truck so no evidence there. I'm just curious if he knew any of these people.

Just watched a TV show last night where they followed a cell phone from it pinging off different towers as it moved. They knew the general location, with in a few miles, and the time it was there. That info was used as evidence in a murder case.

I found this: "Here, someone who is highly trained in digital technology can retrieve text messages and images from the phone even if they've been deleted. Again, to make sure you avoid legal problems with privacy laws, you must be the owner of the cell phone to do this. Or, you may avoid the problem if the phone belongs to your child. Also keep in mind that it may be expensive to have the phone examined by a forensic specialist."

This tells a lot about how text messages work. I can't find anything about if the cell company knows when a message was received and when it was read, both.
That could make a difference in the JM text that was said to have been sent at 2:00 am. But since LE is allowed to lie about evidence, it may not be true any way...
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/e-mail-messaging/sms.htm

 

[rsd1200]

I've been watching this one all day. He killed the little boy and took the extra step to hide his body. I read somewhere that it wasn't related the Rhoden murders but you know how false info can fly about early on when a crime happens.

IMHO

I don't think this is related to the R & G murders at this point. The guy who survived, is the assailant's cousin (by marriage, I think). He said Lawson just came at him, when he walked through the door. LE said he started talking when they picked him up but there's still no motive. Very weird.

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/loca...rning-family-members-lost-in-quadruple-murder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979202/Huntsman-murdered-family-captured-Ohio.html

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Very eyeopening.

Meet 60 Minutes' DEA whistleblower - Videos - CBS News

 

[rsd1200]

Very eyeopening.

Meet 60 Minutes' DEA whistleblower - Videos - CBS News

I watched that. It was nice to see someone with the cojones to step up and say what's needed to be said, now, and for at least the past 10-12 years. Now that docs are freaking out, and are either no longer prescribing opiates, or are pulling folk's scrips, their patients, legal or not, start withdrawal, and then turn to the closest thing to the pain pills, Heroin. Then they end up with Heroin laced with Fentanyl, shipped in from China, and they die from that too. There's just no end in site right now. It's just sad.

 

[JaneEyre]

It's taken me over a week to work through all 30 threads, but I'm just about there. I still have about 20 pages to read.

I'm with many of you who are highly suspicious of the Ws. After all this time, apparently none of the assailants have slipped up. How does that happen? It helps if they have each other to talk to. How have none ratted on each other? It helps if there are ties that bind no matter if you have a falling out - family ties, of course.

Are the Ws still in Alaska, or have they returned?

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[JaneEyre]

Oh, and about my first question regarding texts, I got a partial explanation while reading the case of Sherin Mathews, the missing little Texas girl. I saw someone discussing texts. They said that retrieving deleted texts can be very time sensitive because some phone carriers only retain them for a matter of hours. So apparently they are retrievable, but for how long depends on the phone carrier.

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[Betty P]

Very eyeopening.

Meet 60 Minutes' DEA whistleblower - Videos - CBS News

More on this. The Congressman who led the fight to block the DEA is now Trump's Drug Czar

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-drug-industry-dea-20171015-story.html

I was shocked one day last week when I got a telemarketing call from someone offering me information about how to get access to pain medication. Just a random robo- call going out to millions of people every day. I don't take pain medication, nor does anyone in our household. How is this allowed? I was so shocked, I hung up before trying to find out who was calling. I wish I had, maybe they'll call again.

 

[Betty P]

Oh, and about my first question regarding texts, I got a partial explanation while reading the case of Sherin Mathews, the missing little Texas girl. I saw someone discussing texts. They said that retrieving deleted texts can be very time sensitive because some phone carriers only retain them for a matter of hours. So apparently they are retrievable, but for how long depends on the phone carrier.

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Yes, that happened in the case of Rebecca Zahau, who was found hanging bruised, cut, scratched, bleeding, nude from the balcony of her billionaire boyfriends mansion, allegedly a suicide. The texts she received from her boyfriend prior to her death were not retrieved in time.

We have no idea what BCI and PCSO have sought or retrieved. We may never know.

ETA: Re your other questions, as far as we know the Wagner family is still in AK. They have not been questioned by local LE, though they were stopped and questioned several times by other LE on their way from OH to AK.

Thanks for checking out this case! It's been very difficult to follow with so little information.

 

[rsd1200]

More on this. The Congressman who led the fight to block the DEA is now Trump's Drug Czar

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-drug-industry-dea-20171015-story.html

I was shocked one day last week when I got a telemarketing call from someone offering me information about how to get access to pain medication. Just a random robo- call going out to millions of people every day. I don't take pain medication, nor does anyone in our household. How is this allowed? I was so shocked, I hung up before trying to find out who was calling. I wish I had, maybe they'll call again.

Yeah, it's just pathetic at this point. That czar dude's right where he want's to be and we are losing part of a generation, or two, and the fallout will hit their children, the orphan generation, who are either being raised by grandparents, or in foster homes. It affects the grandparents too. Right after the story aired here there was an advertisement for a pain treatment clinic. I think that they're reputable but I did find it sorta ironic.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, that happened in the case of Rebecca Zahau, who was found hanging bruised, cut, scratched, bleeding, nude from the balcony of her billionaire boyfriends mansion, allegedly a suicide. The texts she received from her boyfriend prior to her death were not retrieved in time.

We have no idea what BCI and PCSO have sought or retrieved. We may never know.

ETA: Re your other questions, as far as we know the Wagner family is still in AK. They have not been questioned by local LE, though they were stopped and questioned several times by other LE on their way from OH to AK.

Thanks for checking out this case! It's been very difficult to follow with so little information.

The W's lawyer did say that they turned over their electronics, provided their DNA, and have interviewed with BCI. As far as local LE, though, their lawyer didn't state local LE in particular.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...-case-because-authorities-clueless/431678001/

 

[Jennifer17]

I was shocked when I was in the US that they were more aisles of pain killers than cereal in supermarkets. Strong painkillers. Why does the US have such a pain problem?

 

[JaneEyre]

I was shocked when I was in the US that they were more aisles of pain killers than cereal in supermarkets. Strong painkillers. Why does the US have such a pain problem?

Good question. Partly our health care. Partly our work schedules (I understand that in many other countries people get more time off). Stress. Stress causes and/or aggravates pain. Lots of added stress when employers are stingy about time off. Also hard to get well if your health is suffering and you fear losing your job or losing promotion opportunities if you take time off.

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[JaneEyre]

Yes, this usually seems like the most logical explanation, especially where motive, means and opportunity are concerned. But the question always remains: If these are the only perps, why hasn't LE solved this yet? How could a few guys with grudges against members of the R family, but with no previous murder experience, manage to execute this many people in the space of a couple hours without getting caught? These people just aren't that smart. None of them has military or LE experience.

Just speculating, but it's more plausible if you take this crew and include some current or former LE who might also go to jail if CR Sr exposed the trafficking network. In that scenario, you would have killers who knew how to avoid leaving evidence or attracting attention, who could get past the dogs and into the Rhoden homes without a struggle.

Local LE had it's problems before these murders

Four Pike County deputies run afoul of the law in recent years

http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/stat...deputies-run-afoul-of-the-law-in-recent-years

Former Scioto Co sheriff's wife used to own a pill mill

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/02/prescription_drug_epidemic_bri.html

There are many more examples we've looked at over the last year and a half.

Going back to the question of how they haven't been arrested yet if LE knows it's them - this seems to happen a lot. On one local cold case I've been following (I don't know if she has a thread on WS), Trudy Appleby, it appears now that LE knew who did it for over 20 years but just now named the perp after his death. In fact, the entire community knew who did it, but there was never enough evidence. Both the family of the victim and the family of the perp knew. But the perp's family holds the key and will not give up the information they have. They just did another search for her body, 21 years later, and still have not found her.

So this is a case where both families knew, entire community knew, and LE knew for 21 years but never had enough evidence. Of course, they did not have her body, but still - wow.

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[JaneEyre]

BBM

780 million pills? In one small state like WV? But my sister can't even get a prescription for pain medication for her dog in my state?

In 2013 one of my dogs had congestive heart failure and a hernia. He was an older dog (14) and was in a great amount of pain. My veterinarian prescribed him hydrocodone pain medicine in liquid form. I had to have it filled at the drug store along with most of his heart medicines. My baby passed in December of 2013 so I discarded a full bottle of the pain medicine. Last week my sister took her dog to the same vet ( we have both been using this vet since 2009). Her dog is an older dog (12) and is in a great amount of pain from a skin disease and other medical problems. He refused to prescribe any pain medicine for her dog. He told her and I quote "the dogs don't get it, the owners take it instead."

She has been taking her dog to this same vet for 8 years. My sister is a pastor and has never even taken a drink of alcohol let alone any drug other than an occasional aspirin. This is a small town. He knows her. People in this town know each other very well and have for years.

It is an awful shame when 780 million pain pills can be dispensed in a small state like WV and our beloved pets have to suffer intense pain with no relief here in this crazy state.

What the heck is going on? Now I wish I had kept that bottle of medicine since it seems that if one of my babies is in pain I am just going to have to watch them suffer.

My dog had bone cancer in 2013. I requested a pain patch for him. I believe it was fentanyl. I was in Kentucky at the time and my vet had to file a bunch of paperwork with the state to do it, so it took a couple of weeks to get it. I think the order was for 3 pain patches, which lasted a week each. The vet kept the patches there and I was to bring my dog in weekly for application and removal. Unfortunately, by the time the meds arrived, he had the first patch on for less than 3 days before we had to put him down. I always hoped that since they had two more patches on hand that they would use them on someone else's terminally ill pet to prevent suffering. (When I ordered them initially my dog did not seem to be in pain, but animals hide it well and I was aware that eventually bone cancer would cause pain. I wanted him on pain meds asap just in case.) If a vet refused pain meds for my animal, I would see another vet. Often the vet simply doesn't want to do the necessary paperwork and pay the necessary fees to the state to dispense these meds.

In Kentucky, after they began to crack down on pill mills, vets suddenly had to pay fees and complete a lot of paperwork for the state if they wanted to continue to dispense certain pain meds. So the crackdowns affected vets as well. I had actually been told by one of the vets there when this changed that he did not want to deal with the new rules and so would no longer be dispensing pain meds. So when my dog became ill, I spoke to a different vet there (one who adored my dog so much that he wept when he put him down) because I knew he would change the other vet's mind in order to give comfort for this dog.

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[JaneEyre]

Not slamming, but, they murdered eight people. The family in this article had been pretty vocal. There's been foul play in LE too. For some strange reason the missing woman's father ended up shot dead on his farm. There's also been a string of murders around there.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article116156688.html

It could be plain old fear because I've not heard as much about this case after the father was murdered.

This is the case that brought me to WS. Every day I am appalled that no arrests have been made. It is believed that an officer was involved (the almost-BIL of the victim). Crystal was a mother of 5. Now if you want to look at the a case that most likely has LE involvement that has stymied an investigation, look not only at the disappearance and death of Crystal and her father, but at the other unsolved cases in that county, including officer Jason Ellis.

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[RAISINISBACK]

I was shocked when I was in the US that they were more aisles of pain killers than cereal in supermarkets. Strong painkillers. Why does the US have such a pain problem?

It's even more shocking in Mexico. We went to a grocery store when we were in Mexico and saw several aisles of prescription meds such as Zanax, Oxycontin, Penicillin, Zoloft, Metformin (diabetes pills) and Micardis (blood pressure pills) just to name a few of the brands I recognized. The bottles were just sitting out on the shelves like items of food. When we asked the clerk about it he told us all we needed to buy them was a Dr's slip, then pointed to a man sitting at a desk behind him and asked what we wanted. It was just that simple and I was sorely tempted to buy my blood pressure pills since they were about a third of the price charged in the USA, but as hubby pointed out and rightly so, who knows what's in them since they are not regulated by the FDA there in Mexico.

So I decided against buying the blood pressure pills and later found out from my SIL that if you buy any kind of drugs in Mexico, even if you have a prescription for them from a DR in Mexico or the USA, and you get caught with them in the car in Texas you get charged with drug trafficking. So I gave myself and hubby a pat on the back for being smart enough to pass on the pills. lol.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Going back to the question of how they haven't been arrested yet if LE knows it's them - this seems to happen a lot. On one local cold case I've been following (I don't know if she has a thread on WS), Trudy Appleby, it appears now that LE knew who did it for over 20 years but just now named the perp after his death. In fact, the entire community knew who did it, but there was never enough evidence. Both the family of the victim and the family of the perp knew. But the perp's family holds the key and will not give up the information they have. They just did another search for her body, 21 years later, and still have not found her.

So this is a case where both families knew, entire community knew, and LE knew for 21 years but never had enough evidence. Of course, they did not have her body, but still - wow.

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In response to the general topic of corrupt LE in Pike County, there's this, today: http://www.dispatch.com/news/201710...eputy-pleads-guilty-in-friends-shooting-death.