OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

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Going back to Leonard Manley's interview shortly after the murders, he mentions the altercation the weekend before. Didn't he say the sheriff was up there or deputies? That they behaved like "snots", meaning they were very mean to the family. Was it related to the custody fight with Hanna's daughter that he referred to earlier in the interview?

The Wagner family lived in Adams County. The grandparents lived in Scioto County. I wonder which LE was called to the scene of the altercation? If the W family had any pull with local law enforcement to help harass the Rhoden's wouldn't it be from officials in Adams Co? Recall, the W's were allowed to move to AK without their property being searched?

Just food for thought.

I didn't know if it was about the custody dispute, or if it was about the fracus with the boys out there joy riding.

I think because of the way the road was split, it might be up to which ever side picked up the phone first. Both Pike and Adams County Sheriff's Departments are about 23 miles away from UHR. I've wondered throughout this if there has been a lot of cooperation between the counties.

DR's home was located on the Adams side. Her address was UHR, Peebles, OH
CR1's /GR's /FR/ & HHG homes were located on the Pike County side of the highway & their addresses were UHR, Piketon, OH
KR's trailer was on LF Road, Rarden, OH and was in Scioto County
LM's address is listed as UHR, Peebles, Oh and would be on the Adams County side.
 
Are you referring to stomach contents? I did a whole research thing on stomach contents and t.o.d. and I cannot locate it! I guess I deleted off the far recesses of my hard drive. I've not had the get up and go to redo it.

Yes, partly that and something else to do with the digestive tract, etc.. I'll have to check again. Some of it is speculation, since most info is redacted.

Re the fracas that Leonard mentioned - what if it was about the custody dispute and other related things? Who knows?

ETA: Also, if you read the depositions from the Columbus Dispatch AR lawsuit, the Piketon Coroner and BCI guy say they called a coroner from Adams County to examine some of the bodies at the crime scene, even though the Piketon coroner had an assistant with him. In the depositions, the name of the coroner isn't mentioned. I wonder how many deputies from other counties were at the crime scene?
 
We don't really know that KR wasn't killed shortly after or even before the others. No information made public. Some of the information I read on the redacted AR's indicates he may have been killed around the same time as CRSr and others. Hard to say for sure, depending on other environmental factors affecting decomp. JMO
I need to re-read those reports because I thought for sure it said KR died later. Though if someone was purposely trying to make it look like a murder/suicide things could have been changed environmentally. The more someone changes a crime scene the more chances of being caught. IMHO I don't think anyone will know fully what happened until some outside LE gets involved. I would almost give my first unborn child to get a look at the complete autopsy reports.

IMHO
 
Well, right there, the autopsies. Why are they still in limbo? Who has that kind of pull? The courts and the papers sueing have been going back and forth for over a year now. Every diversion tactic "they" can think of has been done. IMO "they" have also been using this "pull" to keep this case out of the news. It's like a lot of the media has been warned to "back off" this case.
As most here know I have mentioned I am a recovering addict, and although my "habit" happened in another part of the country than where I live now, it was a similar place. The character's that were fellow user's came from all back rounds. Addiction has no particular type of person/person's. Low income, blue collar, rich, poor and professionals are included even clergy are included. When the drugs take you over, out goes your morals, good judgement and good character. The drug is in charge of everything you do. You have to have "it" to barely function. It's like you have to have it, like most people have to have that first cup of coffee in the morning. After a while you have to have more to get to where just a little used to get you going. It's a vicious cycle that will drive you crazy to "get it", just to get it. You find yourself doing and saying things you never "dreamed" you ever would.
Now that I have explained a little about addiction, some can kinda understand what makes an addict tick. Like I said good judgement and good character go out the window. I used to know people who do almost anything to get what they needed. Theft, lying, and screwing your friends over are just a few. If some get desperate enough, murder can't be far away. Self preservation is very important to human beings. Can you imagine a/many "high" officials being in this kind of position? Your reputation lost forever, losing your family and friends and respect of a/many communities? Those reasons alone would be enough to stoop to murder.
Most small towns (in the past and present) have officials that have been there for years, some are generational (fathers, sons, mothers, daughters, uncles, aunts, etc.) I call it the "good ole boys network". It's not just public officials, but usually includes lawyers, doctor's, police, anyone with power, money and influence in the community and streachs out past that community to surrounding ones and beyond. Everyone's got their hands out. It's as old as time, powerful people using the small people to get them farther into what they want. Could this be what is happening here. Not only do the "small people" of the community have to worry about someone murdering them in their sleep, but powerful people can also make their lives a living hell.
From what I've learned about Pike Co and surrounding area's it seems there's a few people who are buying up land from foreclosures at bargain prices and reselling them at a profit, or putting "cheap" housing on the properties and selling them on land contracts. Knowing that the people who are buying them are eventually going to lose them. And who reaps the rewards? The land owners. JMO and something to think about.
 
Also, could the murderers have been some of the people they were having trouble with? Seems to me, some hated this family enough to almost "volunteer " to do this for someone, just because of their own reason's. I think those autopsies will reveal that hate when and if there ever released.
 
Yes they probably did use silencers since it seems so well planned out in advance. I hope there is still much action behind the scenes. I hate limbo!

Can forensics tell if the bullets were fired through silencers?
Does it leave any kind of distinguishing mark?
 
Well, right there, the autopsies. Why are they still in limbo? Who has that kind of pull? The courts and the papers sueing have been going back and forth for over a year now. Every diversion tactic "they" can think of has been done. IMO "they" have also been using this "pull" to keep this case out of the news. It's like a lot of the media has been warned to "back off" this case.
As most here know I have mentioned I am a recovering addict, and although my "habit" happened in another part of the country than where I live now, it was a similar place. The character's that were fellow user's came from all back rounds. Addiction has no particular type of person/person's. Low income, blue collar, rich, poor and professionals are included even clergy are included. When the drugs take you over, out goes your morals, good judgement and good character. The drug is in charge of everything you do. You have to have "it" to barely function. It's like you have to have it, like most people have to have that first cup of coffee in the morning. After a while you have to have more to get to where just a little used to get you going. It's a vicious cycle that will drive you crazy to "get it", just to get it. You find yourself doing and saying things you never "dreamed" you ever would.
Now that I have explained a little about addiction, some can kinda understand what makes an addict tick. Like I said good judgement and good character go out the window. I used to know people who do almost anything to get what they needed. Theft, lying, and screwing your friends over are just a few. If some get desperate enough, murder can't be far away. Self preservation is very important to human beings. Can you imagine a/many "high" officials being in this kind of position? Your reputation lost forever, losing your family and friends and respect of a/many communities? Those reasons alone would be enough to stoop to murder.
Most small towns (in the past and present) have officials that have been there for years, some are generational (fathers, sons, mothers, daughters, uncles, aunts, etc.) I call it the "good ole boys network". It's not just public officials, but usually includes lawyers, doctor's, police, anyone with power, money and influence in the community and streachs out past that community to surrounding ones and beyond. Everyone's got their hands out. It's as old as time, powerful people using the small people to get them farther into what they want. Could this be what is happening here. Not only do the "small people" of the community have to worry about someone murdering them in their sleep, but powerful people can also make their lives a living hell.
From what I've learned about Pike Co and surrounding area's it seems there's a few people who are buying up land from foreclosures at bargain prices and reselling them at a profit, or putting "cheap" housing on the properties and selling them on land contracts. Knowing that the people who are buying them are eventually going to lose them. And who reaps the rewards? The land owners. JMO and something to think about.

WOW. Very insightful Amauet. Thank you for feeling comfortable enough with us to share your personal story and your victory overcoming it. (I think after a year and a half together, we here all feel a sort of "bond" on this thread and trust one another)
 
BBM
I've thought about that on more than one occasion. They could come in and out, they'd know how to try and stage a scene, they'd know how to get past dogs, and they'd know the people and the area. No one mentioned the dogs acted freaked out that day except for KR's. CR1's pits were sitting in the recliner on the front porch, definitely out of place, per BJM, but not aggressive, and no one mentioned DR's dogs acting out. I think that KR's dog must have known KR's murderer because of DS having to restrain her that day. She didn't know them. Was there a person in an official position, who dropped by those places every now and then, that the family got entangled with? Idk, but, I'd think it possible.

One of the reasons that I think it wasn't about a Mexican Cartel, or pot, is because of this interview:






http://www.wcpo.com/longform/pike-c...lers-in-rhoden-family-homicides-may-be-locals

I don't know if they are still looking at them or not, but, early on they interviewed individuals from Chillicothe. Those may still be on the radar, but they just don't have enough to connect the dots for a slam dunk case yet.

Video from WCPO (@5:00 minute mark)

[video=youtube;ot87Gmm0s2c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot87Gmm0s2c[/video]

[FONT=&amp]"It wasn't because they had a couple of little indoor grows. It wasn't because there was just a couple of cars on the property that may have been stolen," Reader said. "It's much bigger than that."[/FONT]
How do they know this? What did they base this decision on. What can go on in the "backwoods" of southern Ohio that can warrant a response like wiping out a family? Did they witness something? Refuse to join in something? What could LE or politicians have that needs to be kept secret. I wouldn't think there could be too many things that big. Drugs, human trafficking, guns, or a HUGE political corruption. If it was LE or political corruption, how did the Rhodens find out about it?
 
Are you referring to stomach contents? I did a whole research thing on stomach contents and t.o.d. and I cannot locate it! I guess I deleted off the far recesses of my hard drive. I've not had the get up and go to redo it.

Stomach contents, body temperature, degree of rigor mortis, pooling of blood, etc. all can help determine the time of death fairly accurate.
http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/how-to-determine-a-bodys-time-of-death-12116307.html
http://www.writersdigest.com/qp7-migration-books/forensics-excerpt
http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/LOmar2007.htm
 
I have faith in science. It's human greed and deviant behavior which makes me doubt LE in this case. Did the coroner come to the scene? Or did local LE record all findings before sending the bodies off?

IMHO
 
I have faith in science. It's human greed and deviant behavior which makes me doubt LE in this case. Did the coroner come to the scene? Or did local LE record all findings before sending the bodies off?

IMHO

Two coroners and an assistant were at the murder scenes. Who knows what they did do...
 
Two coroners and an assistant were at the murder scenes. Who knows what they did do...

Pike County Coroner said he viewed and reported on some of the bodies and he watched and assisted his assistant. He didn't observe the Adams Co coroner's work nor did he talk to him, IIRC.

This was all done for the preliminary autopsies. BCI then put them in rented refrigerated trucks to take them to the Hamilton County ME, who Pike County contracts with to do autopsies. Hamilton County ME then conducted the autopsies, did toxicology and wrote the final AR's. The final AR's were then redacted by the AG's office and BCI.
 
[FONT=&]"It wasn't because they had a couple of little indoor grows. It wasn't because there was just a couple of cars on the property that may have been stolen," Reader said. "It's much bigger than that."[/FONT]
How do they know this? What did they base this decision on. What can go on in the "backwoods" of southern Ohio that can warrant a response like wiping out a family? Did they witness something? Refuse to join in something? What could LE or politicians have that needs to be kept secret. I wouldn't think there could be too many things that big. Drugs, human trafficking, guns, or a HUGE political corruption. If it was LE or political corruption, how did the Rhodens find out about it?

Yes, I think it had to do with silencing some of the Rhodens because of something they knew. JMO, It wasn't as much "hate" against them, It was more fear of what some of them could say or do that would harm others, with some revenge mixed in. Hate implies they did something to deserve their deaths, no one deserved that.

Someone decided they needed to be obliterated completely to get rid of a threat. I don't think all of those killed had dangerous inside knowledge of anything illicit, but they were killed because of what they had seen or heard; or they could be counted on to avenge the deaths of their family members.
 
Yes, partly that and something else to do with the digestive tract, etc.. I'll have to check again. Some of it is speculation, since most info is redacted.

Re the fracas that Leonard mentioned - what if it was about the custody dispute and other related things? Who knows?

ETA: Also, if you read the depositions from the Columbus Dispatch AR lawsuit, the Piketon Coroner and BCI guy say they called a coroner from Adams County to examine some of the bodies at the crime scene, even though the Piketon coroner had an assistant with him. In the depositions, the name of the coroner isn't mentioned. I wonder how many deputies from other counties were at the crime scene?

BBM
I have wondered that too. FR's trailer was about 25+ ish miles from the Scitoto county Sheriff's Dept. When DS got a signal after he walked up the road, KR's address would show up in Scioto County, as would the address that DS gave them that was close to KR's trailer. I've never understood the walking up the road part, based on the length of KR's drive and how far he had to walk for a signal, either. Nor the wandering around the property and "finding" a tray of plants.
 
I just saw this a few minutes ago. This happened in Ironton, Ohio (just across the river from Kentucky). They've apprehended a suspect and there's a thread, but at first sight I thought possibly more folks from these two family members had been targeted. This is horrible. This time an eight year old was murdered. :tantrum: I've been looking to see if there's any connection at all between the two families, and this guy, as they've not given a motive yet.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspec...gs-of-boy-8-and-three-relatives-in-ohio-home/
 
I just saw this a few minutes ago. This happened in Ironton, Ohio (just across the river from Kentucky). They've apprehended a suspect and there's a thread, but at first sight I thought possibly more folks from these two family members had been targeted. This is horrible. This time an eight year old was murdered. :tantrum: I've been looking to see if there's any connection at all between the two families, and this guy, as they've not given a motive yet.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspec...gs-of-boy-8-and-three-relatives-in-ohio-home/
I've been watching this one all day. He killed the little boy and took the extra step to hide his body. I read somewhere that it wasn't related the Rhoden murders but you know how false info can fly about early on when a crime happens.

IMHO
 
I've been watching this one all day. He killed the little boy and took the extra step to hide his body. I read somewhere that it wasn't related the Rhoden murders but you know how false info can fly about early on when a crime happens.

IMHO

I read the same. BCI said it wasn't related. Considering he was caught so quickly, he doesn't seem to fit the profile of an experience executioner of so many people.
 
I've been working my way through all 30 threads for over a week, and trying to find answers to my questions within the old threads before posting in the latest thread. I'm on #27 now, so getting close to being caught up. But I'm going to go ahead and ask two questions that are related to this case, but also a matter of interest in general for other cases.

1 - can LE retrieve actual text content somehow if both parties deleted the texts and do not back up their phone content?

2 - If, assuming these texts were deleted on both phones, party A sent a text at 10 pm and party B's phone doesn't show receipt of text message until 2 am, will phone records show that text was in fact sent at 10 pm and that it wasn't received until 2 am?

(This happens with me and my mom a lot. Her phone will actually show receipt of my text hours later while my phone will show successfully sent hours earlier. But what I wonder is what time stamps the phone records show for this kind of situation.)

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
Yes, I think it had to do with silencing some of the Rhodens because of something they knew. JMO, It wasn't as much "hate" against them, It was more fear of what some of them could say or do that would harm others, with some revenge mixed in. Hate implies they did something to deserve their deaths, no one deserved that.

Someone decided they needed to be obliterated completely to get rid of a threat. I don't think all of those killed had dangerous inside knowledge of anything illicit, but they were killed because of what they had seen or heard; or they could be counted on to avenge the deaths of their family members.

BBM

It almost feels like Roswell NM all over again doesn't it?

My money is still on the W's being behind this with the help of AM and maybe JM.
 
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